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11'/12' Offseason/Trades/Proposals: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD WHERE ARE THE RUMORS!??

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Old
07-19-2012, 07:59 AM
  #676
Smif
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Weber is arguably the best defenceman in the league... And is only 26. Thats a super valuable commodity, especially because he does everything. He's a young Chris Pronger.

Kessel isnt the least bit comparable to him. Weber is much closer to Stamkos/Malkin in value than Kessel is to Weber in value. And in fact given the choice, I would very likely choose Weber over Stamkos if offered the two of them.


Crazy talk.

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07-19-2012, 08:00 AM
  #677
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Weber is arguably the best defenceman in the league... And is only 26. Thats a super valuable commodity, especially because he does everything. He's a young Chris Pronger.

Kessel isnt the least bit comparable to him. Weber is much closer to Stamkos/Malkin in value than Kessel is to Weber in value. And in fact given the choice, I would very likely choose Weber over Stamkos if offered the two of them.
Also a 40 goal scorer is almost as rare as a weber, and kessel is 2 years younger. And was 21 when we traded those picks for him... So ya, I would say they are somewhat comparable and would say liking this deal and not liking kessels is kinda hypocritical

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07-19-2012, 08:07 AM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Smif View Post
[/B]

Crazy talk.
crazy for real, its very debatable, and a function of team need.
but Stamkos is 22 and has 3 consecutive 90+ point season, he had 60 goals last year.. when he's 26 he could arguably be the best player in the league

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07-19-2012, 08:12 AM
  #679
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I complained about the lack of hockey happenings a few days ago but BAM some excitement.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:18 AM
  #680
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
That's why kessel was only 2 firsts. I don't think weber is worth 4, but philly might be the exception. Toronto shouldn't. I would have offer sheeted stamkos tho..
Weber is worth 4, but for a team like Toronto it doesn't make sense, just like the Kessel deal didn't make sense.

Philly can do the deal because adding Weber fills their last hole, they are legitimate SC contenders for the foreseeable future (assuming Nashville doesn't match). The loss of draft picks? Well if they're all going to be in the 20-30 range anyways, there is almost a 0% chance of any of those picks becoming anything resembling Weber in value.

For Toronto though? Very debateable. I couldn't see any of the picks becoming 2nd overalls in the next four years, that is unless Burke decided to retool and move our Kessel/Phaneuf/Lupul/etc. But if he was bringing in Weber, he obviously wouldn't do that. But still, we have a bunch of holes on this team, and getting a D is the least of them (longterm). So moving four 1sts that would likely average being 10 spots higher than the Philly picks, probably doesn't make much sense.

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07-19-2012, 08:24 AM
  #681
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
crazy for real, its very debatable, and a function of team need.
but Stamkos is 22 and has 3 consecutive 90+ point season, he had 60 goals last year.. when he's 26 he could arguably be the best player in the league
I think it's debateable though.

It's like comparing Pronger in value to a guy like Sakic. Generational talents but at different positions.

Pronger won the Cup his first year in Anaheim, he got to the Finals his first year in Edmonton, he got to the Finals his first year in Philly. The value that a two-way physically dominating franchise D can bring to a team shouldn't be undervalued.

Sakic similarly was a great great player. And this is why it's really hard to compare D to Forwards. Obviously the forwards are going to outscore the D. Weber is never going to put up 90 points, that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. But he can also play 30 minutes a night whereas Stamkos can only be effective for ~22 minutes a night. He can shutdown the oppositions top forwards while still providing offence, while a guy like Stamkos will essentially only be providing offence.

Anyways, I'm just trying to point out that people tend to undervalue D. Top D in the league should be considered as valuable as the top Centres in the league.

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07-19-2012, 08:33 AM
  #682
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So would now be a good time to offersheet Colin Wilson, 5 years 15 million, front loaded?


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07-19-2012, 08:47 AM
  #683
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So would now be a good time to offersheet Colin Wilson, 5 years 15 million, front loaded?

What a stupid waste of an offer sheet idea that you've already said in other threads. If your going to offer sheet someone, they better be someone worth it because if it gets matched you come out with no player and get hate from other GM's.

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07-19-2012, 08:51 AM
  #684
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What a stupid waste of an offer sheet idea that you've already said in other threads. If your going to offer sheet someone, they better be someone worth it because if it gets matched you come out with no player and get hate from other GM's.
Who cares about other GM's?

I'd trade a 2nd. round pick for C.Wilson any day.

Tell me exactly how the Flyers offersheeting players has hurt them? Flyers have done this before, they still make trades with teams.

It is part of the CBA, no problem those teams agreed to it.

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07-19-2012, 08:53 AM
  #685
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Quote:
Paul Bissonnette ‏@BizNasty2point0

Owners want 25% roll back on salaries but are handing out 100 million dollar deals like it's going out of style. Figure that one out. #NHL
From an actual NHL player. Even he finds it incredibly amusing and ironic.

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07-19-2012, 08:59 AM
  #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
So would now be a good time to offersheet Colin Wilson, 5 years 15 million, front loaded?

I wouldn't be willing to give up a first for him, but off hand, I don't think a 3M hit commands a first for compensation.

Still not in the slightest sold on Wilson as a first line center.

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07-19-2012, 08:59 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by stakesishigh View Post
I complained about the lack of hockey happenings a few days ago but BAM some excitement.
I posted a couple of pages ago how Philly has not gone crazy yet and that it's suspicious, so much for that.

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:01 AM
  #688
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Originally Posted by The Naz View Post
I wouldn't be willing to give up a first for him, but off hand, I don't think a 3M hit commands a first for compensation.

Still not in the slightest sold on Wilson as a first line center.
To start, here are the compensation ranges:

•$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
•Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
•Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
•Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
•Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

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07-19-2012, 09:06 AM
  #689
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Last year I would have offered Stamkos 10 years 12 million each. 120m total. Huge cntract but its worth it and he would only get until 32, plus the Leafs could afford it. And its not one of those from loaded contracts that Burke hates. It would litterally be 12m a year, maybe give or take a few m's each year.

With Stamkos I am sure the Leafs would have made the playoffs. Especially if it cost us no change in roster players.

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07-19-2012, 09:15 AM
  #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
To start, here are the compensation ranges:

•$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
•Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
•Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
•Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
•Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks
Thanks. Normally I do my own homework for stuff like that. But Im at the cottage not catching fish or swimming. So dumbphones aren't easy to navigate.

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:28 AM
  #691
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Why cant the Leafs supposedly the richest team in the sport do something big like this..

I understand Basketball, baseball were a tier 2 team compared to the financial powerhouses like Miami La Nyc Boston

But this is hockey and were always worried about stepping on peoples toes when were the big wallet in the sport

Whats the point in being the richest team if you never utilize your money...We act like Winnipeg

Perhaps not Weber but we should have done this with someone at sometime

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:30 AM
  #692
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Originally Posted by LeafsJacob8 View Post
Last year I would have offered Stamkos 10 years 12 million each. 120m total. Huge cntract but its worth it and he would only get until 32, plus the Leafs could afford it. And its not one of those from loaded contracts that Burke hates. It would litterally be 12m a year, maybe give or take a few m's each year.

With Stamkos I am sure the Leafs would have made the playoffs. Especially if it cost us no change in roster players.
Well he didn't help the lightning much, and on paper they are better than us. I don't think adding stamkos makes us a contender, just as much as adding kessel did. There would have to be upgrades around him and room left in the budget for them. He would be a huge step in the right direction tho.

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07-19-2012, 09:32 AM
  #693
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Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
Why cant the Leafs supposedly the richest team in the sport do something big like this..

I understand Basketball, baseball were a tier 2 team compared to the financial powerhouses like Miami La Nyc Boston

But this is hockey and were always worried about stepping on peoples toes when were the big wallet in the sport

Whats the point in being the richest team if you never utilize your money...We act like Winnipeg

Perhaps not Weber but we should have done this with someone at sometime
salary cap and NMC contracts.

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07-19-2012, 09:34 AM
  #694
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
salary cap and NMC contracts.
You mean the Leafs are capped out and putting that on the ice?

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:36 AM
  #695
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
Well he didn't help the lightning much, and on paper they are better than us. I don't think adding stamkos makes us a contender, just as much as adding kessel did. There would have to be upgrades around him and room left in the budget for them. He would be a huge step in the right direction tho.
Really? Take Stamkos and put him on the Leafs and it wouldnt be close. Throw Stamkos in with Kessel and Lupul and they all get 90 pts. Do I think Stamkos would get 60 goals still? No probably not but I would say he gets 50.

It is too hard to tell where we would have finished but Stamkos is worth those 4 1sts.

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07-19-2012, 09:37 AM
  #696
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I'm excited about the Philly move but also weary. It's great that something happened but Weber in the East makes me nervous especially on a loaded Philly team and if Pronger gets back to 100%... Look out.

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:45 AM
  #697
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Originally Posted by LeafsJacob8 View Post
Really? Take Stamkos and put him on the Leafs and it wouldnt be close. Throw Stamkos in with Kessel and Lupul and they all get 90 pts. Do I think Stamkos would get 60 goals still? No probably not but I would say he gets 50.

It is too hard to tell where we would have finished but Stamkos is worth those 4 1sts.
I didn't say he wouldn't be good, but goal scoring and snipers aren't a need for us we already score with the best of them, we need good puck possession guys who can punish, a defensive system and goaltending. Many of the things also needed by Tampa, which is why he wouldn't make us any better than he made them.

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07-19-2012, 09:52 AM
  #698
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I'm excited about the Philly move but also weary. It's great that something happened but Weber in the East makes me nervous especially on a loaded Philly team and if Pronger gets back to 100%... Look out.
Yeah, it's nice to have some movement, or at least some chatter, but... Weber to Philly is one of the last things I want to hear when it comes to League-wide transactions.

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07-19-2012, 10:00 AM
  #699
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Originally Posted by Leafs at Knight View Post
Good job ur not running the Leafs.

Look at our team compared to the flyers, they have been top 10 the last few years, while we haven't made the playoffs in too long. With Weber it would put us in the playoffs and most likely be out the first round , so no.
You know who Shea Weber is right?

And if we made the playoffs our pick would be, at worst, #15th?

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07-19-2012, 10:02 AM
  #700
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Yeah, it's nice to have some movement, or at least some chatter, but... Weber to Philly is one of the last things I want to hear when it comes to League-wide transactions.
I actually want it to happen.

First of all, if Nashville can't compete because of this they shouldn't be in the league, and that goes for any team. So I'll be glad if this makes them move in a few years (if not sooner). They have a crap load of cap space but can't afford to keep their captain at all cost. Just sounds really mickey mouse. So what, they are going to take the pics, and just rebuild for the next couple years again just to be in the same problem in 6-7 years? Yay!

Second, it's just sad watching Holmgren make a mockery of the CBA or the league in general. 4 of the 5 longest contracts were given out by him. He trades 2 of them before the first year is even up and he's still at it.

Third... well... it's just plain stupid but entertaining no less.

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