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11'/12' Offseason/Trades/Proposals: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD WHERE ARE THE RUMORS!??

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Old
07-21-2012, 10:47 PM
  #951
delirium trigger
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Frattin is too undersized to be a prototypical PF. Not everyone who scores goals is a power forward.
I would say he is average sized for a PF. And frattins willingness, nay compulsion to handle the puck through high traffic areas and crash the net with the puck is a refreshing thing to see on this team. You hope he inspires others on the team, not try to trade him.
Is he gonna score alot? Probably not, but he will give you a lot of assists due to his work ethic, and he is the kinda player that can suprise teams and break open tight games and score key goals, pretty or ugly.

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07-21-2012, 11:04 PM
  #952
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
I would say he is average sized for a PF. And frattins willingness, nay compulsion to handle the puck through high traffic areas and crash the net with the puck is a refreshing thing to see on this team. You hope he inspires others on the team, not try to trade him.
Is he gonna score alot? Probably not, but he will give you a lot of assists due to his work ethic, and he is the kinda player that can suprise teams and break open tight games and score key goals, pretty or ugly.
6'0 200lbs is average PF size? Oh god. The fact that you think Frattin will get a lot of assists shows how little you know about him in the first place, as seen by his 14 goals/4 assist stat line on the Marlies this year.

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07-21-2012, 11:15 PM
  #953
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
6'0 200lbs is average PF size? Oh god. The fact that you think Frattin will get a lot of assists shows how little you know about him in the first place, as seen by his 14 goals/4 assist stat line on the Marlies this year.
He was the MVP of the Marlies in the playoffs. It seems you don't know much about Frattin yourself.

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07-21-2012, 11:17 PM
  #954
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Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
Kubina.
If he was that good, he would be signed already. Kubina has lost a lot.

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07-21-2012, 11:24 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Frattin is too undersized to be a prototypical PF. Not everyone who scores goals is a power forward.
Dustin Brown -- 6'0, 204lbs
http://kings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8470606

Matt Frattin -- 6'0, 200lbs
http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8474192

If you consider Dustin Brown a powerforward (I do), then you lose.

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Old
07-21-2012, 11:24 PM
  #956
delirium trigger
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
6'0 200lbs is average PF size? Oh god. The fact that you think Frattin will get a lot of assists shows how little you know about him in the first place, as seen by his 14 goals/4 assist stat line on the Marlies this year.
Actually the "new" power forward is fast and mobile, if you look at all the up and coming prototypical prospects and young players they are all in the 6'0" and 200 lbs range. Finding old school sized PFs that are mobile enough to play in this game are extremely rare and the exception to the rule.

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07-21-2012, 11:25 PM
  #957
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Originally Posted by showtime8 View Post
If he was that good, he would be signed already. Kubina has lost a lot.
I quickly glanced over the UFA list so I could have missed someone, but overall I would say he is the best UFA defenceman. I could have missed someone though.

I agree his play has been on the decline the past 3 seasons. So come training camp I could easily change my mind, and would prefer to see how everyone looks come training camp, but since you asked me now, and after quickly glancing over the UFA list, I will go with him.

Could be many different reasons why certain UFA's haven't signed yet, doesn't always mean there is no interest in them.

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07-22-2012, 12:00 AM
  #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. ¹ View Post
Dustin Brown -- 6'0, 204lbs
http://kings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8470606

Matt Frattin -- 6'0, 200lbs
http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8474192

If you consider Dustin Brown a powerforward (I do), then you lose.
Dustin Brown is only 6'0"? Wow! He looks MUCH bigger on the ice. I guess it's just his strong build.

But yeah, you don't need to be huge to be a power forward. Ryan Callahan is a little wrecking ball at only 5'10"

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07-22-2012, 12:00 AM
  #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J. ¹ View Post
Dustin Brown -- 6'0, 204lbs
http://kings.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8470606

Matt Frattin -- 6'0, 200lbs
http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8474192

If you consider Dustin Brown a powerforward (I do), then you lose.
Brown isnt a prototypical power forward. He isnt nearly as good on the boards or in front of the net as people make him out to be.

Either way, Frattin is a good player and we need more like him. I do not want to trade him for Bernier. Bernier had the same stats as riemer, but played less games.

Even though bernier played behind the best defensive team in the NHL, he could not put up any better stats than reimer. I would much rather go into the season with Riemer/Scrivens than trade assets for Bernier.

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07-22-2012, 12:03 AM
  #960
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Originally Posted by DPyro View Post
He was the MVP of the Marlies in the playoffs. It seems you don't know much about Frattin yourself.
He was MVP for the Marlies for like one and a half series. The same could be said for D'Amigo as well.. People really get far too excited for one player.

Frattin showed signs, but he didn't show the same signs in the NHL. Hopefully he's working his tail off and coming in a better player..

I'm getting prepared for the herds of people coming in here sometime next year saying we should've traded this guy..

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:17 AM
  #961
delirium trigger
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Originally Posted by Duffman955 View Post
Brown isnt a prototypical power forward. He isnt nearly as good on the boards or in front of the net as people make him out to be.

Either way, Frattin is a good player and we need more like him. I do not want to trade him for Bernier. Bernier had the same stats as riemer, but played less games.

Even though bernier played behind the best defensive team in the NHL, he could not put up any better stats than reimer. I would much rather go into the season with Riemer/Scrivens than trade assets for Bernier.
I think you probably consider a lucic to be the prototypical PF, yes he is massive and quite effective. But his speed suffers greatly due to the extra 15-20 pounds. I wouldn't consider him prototypical as he is deficient in a key PF attribute, but maybe u think he compensates with size. Guys that tend to have it all, (scoring touch not withstanding) tend to be in the 200-205 lbs range.
Also dustin brown is most definitely a PF.
The greatest PFs are large and fast, like Getz and backes, and are few and far between, and there isn't enough to go around.
Anyways I'm glad u like frattin, he ain't going anywhere anyways, BB said already that he had tempting offers on the table for him and he said "if I trade him, I'll be asking my scouts to find another just like him" so prototyping PF or not, he appears to be the prototype of what BB wants on this team.

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07-22-2012, 12:17 AM
  #962
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I don't consider Dustin Brown a power forward.

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Old
07-22-2012, 12:33 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by MintoMadDogsKiller18 View Post
I don't consider Dustin Brown a power forward.
“He’s a rare power forward who can play on a top line at all times,” said Anze Kopitar, Brown’s center for most of their six seasons together. “You know he’s going to bring the effort. You know he’s going to hit people. When he does that, he gets into open areas and creates space for himself. That’s where the chances come from.”

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07-22-2012, 12:35 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
The fact that you think Frattin will get a lot of assists shows how little you know about him in the first place, as seen by his 14 goals/4 assist stat line on the Marlies this year.
I'd attribute this to the fact that Frattin's finishing ability consistently proved to be too much to handle for the average AHL goaltender, rather than chalking it up to his sub-par playmaking ability. He was just head and shoulders above anyone else in terms of his shooting. Everything he fired at the net went in. It's never an easy task when you're asking an AHL goaltender to stop an NHL shot.

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07-22-2012, 12:46 AM
  #965
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Frattin is too undersized to be a prototypical PF. Not everyone who scores goals is a power forward.
Thanks tips. I think the term power forward is being over scrutinized by many. Judging by a lot of the comments on these boards, I guess there are what - 6 power forwards in the league......?

And to those saying Dustin Brown isn't a power forward??? C'mon. The guy is a complete hockey player who can take over a game with his skill and physicality and drops the gloves when need be. He was an absolute beast in the playoffs, who along with Quick, put that team on his back to win the cup.

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07-22-2012, 12:58 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by Ritzie View Post
Thanks tips. I think the term power forward is being over scrutinized by many. Judging by a lot of the comments on these boards, I guess there are what - 6 power forwards in the league......?

And to those saying Dustin Brown isn't a power forward??? C'mon. The guy is a complete hockey player who can take over a game with his skill and physicality and drops the gloves when need be. He was an absolute beast in the playoffs, who along with Quick, put that team on his back to win the cup.
I have seen Callahan and Brown mentioned as power forwards.... come on. Prototypical power forwards include Getzlaf, Nash, Lucic, Clowe, Backes, Horton, Perry, Hartnell, Stewart, Iginla, Paccioretty, Franzen etc. Look at the size of those players. All of them (with the exception of Iginla who stands 6'1, are at lest 6'2 or greater with most if not all surpassing 220lbs). I wouldn't consider Dustin Brown as a prototypical power forward (lacks the same puck possession dominance as the others). Do you realize how stupid putting a player like Frattin in the company of those players is? Nice player, NOT a power forward, and the notion that he is is downright stupidity.

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07-22-2012, 01:00 AM
  #967
Bernier the Boats
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
Actually the "new" power forward is fast and mobile, if you look at all the up and coming prototypical prospects and young players they are all in the 6'0" and 200 lbs range. Finding old school sized PFs that are mobile enough to play in this game are extremely rare and the exception to the rule.
The "new" PFs are not 6'0" and 200lbs. Name me 5 PFs 6'0 and 200lbs. Look at my above list for the prototypical PFs. They're bigger than that.

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07-22-2012, 01:21 AM
  #968
delirium trigger
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
The "new" PFs are not 6'0" and 200lbs. Name me 5 PFs 6'0 and 200lbs. Look at my above list for the prototypical PFs. They're bigger than that.
Hockeydb has pattcioretty listed sub 200lbs and is in no way a prototypical PF, clowe and lucic don't have the scoring or the speed to be prototypical PFs either. a perfect PF isn't just size, its efficient and dynamic use of your size and a well rounded offensive skill, having size helps with that but doesn't make you instantly better at the role. Many of those so called prototypes are lacking greatly in key areas and at just large. Guys like iginla, and getz are the complete package and are elite, not prototypical. Maybe your not grasping the meaning of prototypical.

Prototypical: an early, TYPICAL example. An original type, serving as the standard.
It is the average, median. Not the exceptional, unique or elite.

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07-22-2012, 01:22 AM
  #969
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
I have seen Callahan and Brown mentioned as power forwards.... come on. Prototypical power forwards include Getzlaf, Nash, Lucic, Clowe, Backes, Horton, Perry, Hartnell, Stewart, Iginla, Paccioretty, Franzen etc. Look at the size of those players. All of them (with the exception of Iginla who stands 6'1, are at lest 6'2 or greater with most if not all surpassing 220lbs). I wouldn't consider Dustin Brown as a prototypical power forward (lacks the same puck possession dominance as the others). Do you realize how stupid putting a player like Frattin in the company of those players is? Nice player, NOT a power forward, and the notion that he is is downright stupidity.
I will say, initially using the term 'prototypical' was not the best choice of words on my part. None the less, I consider him a power forward type player - particularly when viewed against the rest of the Leaf roster - which was my original point. He's played 57 games in the NHL? I certainly expect his game to continue to evolve and IMO he will be a solid PF in this league. I don't think it's "downright stupidity" to expect that. Biggs could be promising in a few years, but will have to show he can actually score at the NHL level and I think Ashton will struggle to make any real contribution to this team. Whatever the definition, this team needs a PF or two and I wouldn't trade/package a young player who has that potential without getting one in return.

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07-22-2012, 01:22 AM
  #970
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So apparently Dustin Brown is not a power forward, but Pacioretty is? Alright then.

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07-22-2012, 01:28 AM
  #971
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
Hockeydb has pattcioretty listed sub 200lbs and is in no way a prototypical PF, clowe and lucic don't have the scoring or the speed to be prototypical PFs either. a perfect PF isn't just size, its efficient and dynamic use of your size and a well rounded offensive skill, having size helps with that but doesn't make you instantly better at the role. Many of those so called prototypes are lacking greatly in key areas and at just large. Guys like iginla, and getz are the complete package and are elite, not prototypical. Maybe your not grasping the meaning of prototypical.

Prototypical: an early, TYPICAL example. An original type, serving as the standard.
It is the average, median. Not the exceptional, unique or elite.
Lucic is a prototypical power forward.

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07-22-2012, 01:59 AM
  #972
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Originally Posted by delirium trigger View Post
Hockeydb has pattcioretty listed sub 200lbs and is in no way a prototypical PF
You do know that sits don't update every player's weight whenever it changes, right? He's been listed at 196 since his rookie season. He's well over 200 now - closer to 215 or 220 by now.

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07-22-2012, 03:13 AM
  #973
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Dustin Brown not a Power Forward? Why, because he is not 2 inches taller?

287, 300, 293 are his hit totals the last 3 seasons.

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07-22-2012, 07:55 AM
  #974
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It's not like there is a cut off in size when classifying a power forward. It is the style of game that they play. If they are physical, can drive the net and use their strength to work effectively in the dirty areas, they should be considered a power forward. Dustin Brown is a power forward.


Last edited by Drew311: 07-22-2012 at 09:31 AM.
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Old
07-22-2012, 08:11 AM
  #975
delirium trigger
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You do know that sits don't update every player's weight whenever it changes, right? He's been listed at 196 since his rookie season. He's well over 200 now - closer to 215 or 220 by now.
That's a stretch, I've seen him listed at 212 at the most and not on the most reliable site.. its a moot point anyway, because saying he is a prototypical PF is insulting to PFs. Unless he just enjoys getting destroyed in the corners and hammered in open ice. That guy can't take a hit and is soft..
If I go strictly by your definition of a PF, than I guess antropov is one of the best in the league.

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