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Lack of Bruins Free Agency Part IV

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08-06-2012, 03:31 PM
  #701
Dr Quincy
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
OK, so I get it straight....Bruins last 4 outages in the play-offs...

1. vs Montreal, learning experience
2. vs Carolina, didn't know how to win
3. vs Philly, injuries
4. vs Washington, tired.
I still like the "We couldn't win it this year. We aren't robots" excuse.

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08-06-2012, 03:34 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I think that's a bad rap. The guys have won a gold medal in the olympics and have a pretty decent playoff track record.

The fact that their goalie gave them zero chance to win in 3 of the games in the finals was a bigger factor than any sort of swedish psyche problem.
Even in the games they won, however, the Sedins were all but invisible.

Daniel Sedin allowing Marchand to make him look like a gutless wimp doesn't give me any faith in either of them.

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08-06-2012, 03:37 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I still like the "We couldn't win it this year. We aren't robots" excuse.
Winner!

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08-06-2012, 03:37 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Even in the games they won, however, the Sedins were all but invisible.

Daniel Sedin allowing Marchand to make him look like a gutless wimp doesn't give me any faith in either of them.
And Holtby totally showed more toughness and mental will than Peverly. I just think those things get overrated based on small anecdotal evidence.

They are good players. There's a good chance they'll win a cup. I just don't buy the "Yeah X is a great player but folds when it matters."

Heard it about Peyton Manning, Barry Bonds, Lebron James... heck even Michael Jordan.

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08-06-2012, 03:38 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
OK, so I get it straight....Bruins last 4 outages in the play-offs...

1. vs Montreal, learning experience
2. vs Carolina, didn't know how to win
3. vs Philly, injuries
4. vs Washington, tired.
Can you run through a list like this for every other team that hasn't won multiple Cups in the last decade? Like, every team that's made the playoffs?

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08-06-2012, 03:41 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
But, but the Canes have won a cup!

Canes would give us a run for our money in the play-offs and to think otherwise is foolhardy.
How does that make them elite?

Try following the conversation and debate the talking points. That doesn't make Carolina better than Boston.

What you're also forgetting is that the current Carolina team has not had an opportunity to showcase whether or not they have improved. Signing big names is great and all, but I'd like to see them in action before calling a team that just missed the playoffs elite.

Also, results from almost 4 seasons ago are IRRELEVANT.

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08-06-2012, 03:42 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
And Holtby totally showed more toughness and mental will than Peverly. I just think those things get overrated based on small anecdotal evidence.

They are good players. There's a good chance they'll win a cup. I just don't buy the "Yeah X is a great player but folds when it matters."

Heard it about Peyton Manning, Barry Bonds, Lebron James... heck even Michael Jordan.
Easy lists in retrospect.

They said it about Karl Malone while he played.....and it was true til the end.

Bonds didn't play well in the post-season until he was a genetically altered super villain.

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08-06-2012, 03:43 PM
  #708
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Again, I'd like anyone to provide a cogent argument in favour of Carolina being an elite team.

And before your hyenas jump down my throat, don't bring the Bruins into this - they have no bearing on Carolina being elite or not.

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08-06-2012, 03:44 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by JBertho View Post
Again, I'd like anyone to provide a cogent argument in favour of Carolina being an elite team.

And before your hyenas jump down my throat, don't bring the Bruins into this - they have no bearing on Carolina being elite or not.
I don't own a hyena....

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08-06-2012, 03:45 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Easy lists in retrospect.

They said it about Karl Malone while he played.....and it was true til the end.

Bonds didn't play well in the post-season until he was a genetically altered super villain.
True about Malone, but seriously, would you say he was a playoff choker? The guy just happened to play in an era with possibly the 3 of the 4 greatest players in the sport's history. He had guys like Mark Eaton at center and Jeff Malone at sg and Ty Corbin (who I loved even back in Depaul, but was never exactly McHale/Worthy) at SF.

I don't like how some players, who don't win titles, are labelled chokers. Claude Lemieux won more titles and had better playoff success as a player than Neely. Doesn't mean Neely wassn't better. Doesn't mean Neely was a choker. Some things go beyond 1 player.

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08-06-2012, 03:48 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
True about Malone, but seriously, would you say he was a playoff choker? The guy just happened to play in an era with possibly the 3 of the 4 greatest players in the sport's history. He had guys like Mark Eaton at center and Jeff Malone at sg and Ty Corbin (who I loved even back in Depaul, but was never exactly McHale/Worthy) at SF.

I don't like how some players, who don't win titles, are labelled chokers. Claude Lemieux won more titles and had better playoff success as a player than Neely. Doesn't mean Neely wassn't better. Doesn't mean Neely was a choker. Some things go beyond 1 player.
Yes, I would.

I watched. He choked in huge spots often.

Not all non-winners are chokers. No one ever calls Yaz a choker.

Marino never gets called a choker.

You are simplifying this a little I think.

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08-06-2012, 03:51 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Yes, I would.

I watched. He choked in huge spots often.

Not all non-winners are chokers. No one ever calls Yaz a choker.

Marino never gets called a choker.

You are simplifying this a little I think.
Actually.... http://blogs.democratandchronicle.co...season/?p=2346

Cried like a baby when that happened

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08-06-2012, 03:51 PM
  #713
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I think it stops becoming anecdotal evidence and leans more towards being an actual pattern when you have two guys who are among the league's scoring leaders year after year and lead their team to multiple president's trophies and fail to win a championship after multiple playoff appearances where their team did very little. Granted they made it to game 7 of the finals but they followed that up with a brutal first round exit. I think that finals appearance will look like an anomaly when people look back on this era in Canucks history.

I don't think it's impossible for them to win a cup, but I don't think they're the kind of guys who you build a team around. Similar to Kessel, I think they're terrific, talented players, but would work better as complimentary pieces than as go-to guys. Unfortunately in a cap world it will be nearly impossible for the Sedins to be complimentary pieces given the type of salaries their regular season performances command.

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08-06-2012, 03:55 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Actually.... http://blogs.democratandchronicle.co...season/?p=2346

Cried like a baby when that happened
I know Yaz made the last out.

And yet he is never called a choker.

I was specifically thinking about that at bat when I wrote it.

Cue the Ordway, "You're making mah point."

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08-06-2012, 03:57 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by RussellmaniaKW View Post
I think it stops becoming anecdotal evidence and leans more towards being an actual pattern when you have two guys who are among the league's scoring leaders year after year and lead their team to multiple president's trophies and fail to win a championship after multiple playoff appearances where their team did very little. Granted they made it to game 7 of the finals but they followed that up with a brutal first round exit. I think that finals appearance will look like an anomaly when people look back on this era in Canucks history.

I don't think it's impossible for them to win a cup, but I don't think they're the kind of guys who you build a team around. Similar to Kessel, I think they're terrific, talented players, but would work better as complimentary pieces than as go-to guys. Unfortunately in a cap world it will be nearly impossible for the Sedins to be complimentary pieces given the type of salaries their regular season performances command.
You may be right. I'm not saying they've been great in the playoffs. And like Artemis said, they were pretty bad in the finals. But they've won 1 more President's Trophy than Neely did. I don't know if that's enough to say they are "chokers".

Luongo on the other hand I do think "choked". He just looked like a beaten guy who couldn't deal with the pressure of playing in Boston. Even the next year when they came to Boston they benched him because they knew he was psychologically damaged.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Sedins go cupless, but I'm also not going to be shocked if the win one.

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08-06-2012, 04:00 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
I know Yaz made the last out.

And yet he is never called a choker.

I was specifically thinking about that at bat when I wrote it.

Cue the Ordway, "You're making mah point."
lol

Gossage was damn tough, but little 10 year old me thought Yaz was going to do it.... and of all people to hit it to too.

For all the younger generation who thought the 90s yankees were hatable.... no team was as dislikable as Munson, Rivers, Nettles, Pinella, Reggie, Billy Martin etc.

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08-06-2012, 04:05 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by JBertho View Post
How does that make them elite?

Try following the conversation and debate the talking points. That doesn't make Carolina better than Boston.

What you're also forgetting is that the current Carolina team has not had an opportunity to showcase whether or not they have improved. Signing big names is great and all, but I'd like to see them in action before calling a team that just missed the playoffs elite.

Also, results from almost 4 seasons ago are IRRELEVANT.
They aren't elite. Not sure if any team is Elite in the league honestly.

My results are based from last year as well when a crap Carolina team took it to our world champs . 3 of those game we were fully healthy.

I was also commenting to Dojiis point...Who gives a **** with "elite" when you can lose to anyone...

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08-06-2012, 04:06 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Can you run through a list like this for every other team that hasn't won multiple Cups in the last decade? Like, every team that's made the playoffs?
Not sure... I don't read all their excuses....have enough to go through over here.

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08-06-2012, 04:10 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by JBertho View Post
Again, I'd like anyone to provide a cogent argument in favour of Carolina being an elite team.

And before your hyenas jump down my throat, don't bring the Bruins into this - they have no bearing on Carolina being elite or not.
There really aren't any elite teams. Not in today's NHL IMO.

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08-06-2012, 04:34 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
There really aren't any elite teams. Not in today's NHL IMO.
How many teams CAN'T win a Cup this year?

Toronto
NYI
Columbus
Edmonton

Really... that's about it for me and that's because I don't think any of them have the goaltending to go on a run.

Now there are a few other teams that have very long shots to win, but because of excellence in one area (like say goal or a couple elite level players) I'd give them a shot.

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08-06-2012, 04:44 PM
  #721
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Thing about the Sedins is I am more likely to criticize them for taking so long to get good thank I am for them being soft now.

Regular season they are better than anyone not named Crosby/Malkin.

BUT...when Naslund and Big Bert were in their primes and amazing players with basically no equal in the NHL the Sedins weren't stars or close to it. To me thats more damning to their legacy than being soft and having man-ginas come playoff time.


Yah, you would rather have Guerin than Glen Murray. Of course. But when Murray comes to Boston and puts up the same number of goals Guerin would have got you for half the money you need to credit him for that even if he isn't as good overall as Bill G.

Sedins have turned themselves into top 10 NHLers and their team has been the best regular season team in the NHL last few years. (Both) Being Marchand's ***** doesn't change that.

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08-06-2012, 07:38 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
How many teams CAN'T win a Cup this year?

Toronto
NYI
Columbus
Edmonton

Really... that's about it for me and that's because I don't think any of them have the goaltending to go on a run.

Now there are a few other teams that have very long shots to win, but because of excellence in one area (like say goal or a couple elite level players) I'd give them a shot.
My thoughts exactly...but if you're going to throw the "elite" term around...I think of the upper tier of teams....which both Boston and Vancouver belong in without a doubt.

It's just so funny to me that Vancouver are a bunch of choke artists but like Lou pointed out...the B's get every excuse known to man here...even for the 3-0, 3-0.

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08-06-2012, 10:30 PM
  #723
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Easy lists in retrospect.

They said it about Karl Malone while he played.....and it was true til the end.

Bonds didn't play well in the post-season until he was a genetically altered super villain.
And then, of course, there's Jumbo Joe.

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08-06-2012, 10:33 PM
  #724
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And then, of course, there's Jumbo Joe.
Joe has had two good playoffs in a row.

Before that he sucked.

Has never even played that well at the Olympics.

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08-06-2012, 10:35 PM
  #725
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My thoughts exactly...but if you're going to throw the "elite" term around...I think of the upper tier of teams....which both Boston and Vancouver belong in without a doubt.

It's just so funny to me that Vancouver are a bunch of choke artists but like Lou pointed out...the B's get every excuse known to man here...even for the 3-0, 3-0.
What's funny to me is that you can't recognize the fact that sometimes an excuse can be legitimate.

When you have as many injuries as that 09-10 team had, pretending that 3-0 3-0 happened in a vacuum is ridiculous and unreasonable. Pointing that out isn't "making excuses." It's being sane.

It's easy to try to sound like an internet tough guy and call down someone else for their failures. In the end, it's irrelevant. You have the choice between whether to understand, or fail to understand, what happened and why.

I'm more inclined to write that 09-10 team a mulligan for what happened to them than I am to write other recent Bruins teams off for less dramatic "failures." That team bore practically no resemblance to the real Boston Bruins at the end.

Now if you want to castigate the 08-09 Bruins for sleepwalking through the first 4 games of the semis, I'm right with you. That didn't need to happen and it set that team up to fail.

If you want to say that the Bruins should have probably won against the Capitals, I'll agree to a point -- I think we clearly had the better team on paper, and nearly all of our key players were at least on the ice. The Capitals managed to control the pace of the series, and that murdered us -- we couldn't keep up with their higher end skill forwards on the penalty kill.

That said, it's the MF'n playoffs people. Good teams lose all the time. Pretending we should take a playoff series loss as some kind of moral insult is a complete abandonment of perspective and sanity.

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