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Old
07-13-2012, 07:52 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Latrappe View Post
Stats... As you know, stats can be very misleading. Sometimes, you can score a bunch against weaker teams and it give you a " false positive " when it becomes to your offensive ability. While i agree that stats are saying that we were very good offensively, there was stretches where this team couldn't a buy a goal. Best example of this? 1st round of the last playoffs. If the stats was telling the truth, we would have crushed Washington in 4 games...
That goes back to my first point, we only played well for two months last season and in the playoffs we stunk. There are no "false positives", we beat up on good teams and we lost to bad teams, we were just not playing well for long stretches last season. This season the team gets the benefit of a long off season, there are no excuses and if that's not enough I'm sure PC will deal with it but now is not the right time.

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07-13-2012, 07:55 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
Thanks for the recap, however, I don't really get the part I bolded? Why would ANA signing Doan mitigate the need to trade Ryan for a #2 center? I must be missing something?

Anyway, I get the concerns about trading DK and then having Seguin struggle at the center position, and I think it's a valid question. I guess it comes down to the B's long term plans for Seguin?

If they really think that Segs will be a more dominant player at the pivot, and Ryan is available now, they would/should be trying to get him. If they believe that Seguin will be a better NHL wing than C, then you keep DK.

As others have said, I would be cool with DK for Ryan straight up or with a small kicker, but I don't add anything significant. The B's are not the ones who need to make the deal.
Well said.

Also, Ryans contract is pretty damn good and manageable among all the uncertainty that is going to go on next offseason.

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07-13-2012, 08:01 AM
  #78
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I feel like the fact that a lot of people here would swap Krejci for Ryan, or at least wouldn't MIND if the Bruins did it, means it's not going to happen.

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07-13-2012, 08:29 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
Thanks for the recap, however, I don't really get the part I bolded? Why would ANA signing Doan mitigate the need to trade Ryan for a #2 center? I must be missing something?

Anyway, I get the concerns about trading DK and then having Seguin struggle at the center position, and I think it's a valid question. I guess it comes down to the B's long term plans for Seguin?

If they really think that Segs will be a more dominant player at the pivot, and Ryan is available now, they would/should be trying to get him. If they believe that Seguin will be a better NHL wing than C, then you keep DK.

As others have said, I would be cool with DK for Ryan straight up or with a small kicker, but I don't add anything significant. The B's are not the ones who need to make the deal.
If they sign Doan, they have another winger besides Selanne that makes Ryan an area of strength(the wing) that they would trade for a center(Krejci and area of strength on the B's).

As far as Seguin being a center, let's go by Chia's public comments which he stated that they see Seguin becoming a center eventually whether that's 2-3 years remains to be seen. I'm paraphrasing but that's essentially what he said.
So they do see him as a center, but don't need to rush him with the team as it sits.

So what Chia needs to figure out is do they move up the time frame and move Seguin to center a little earlier than planned in order to get a 30+ goal scoring winger with elite hands who is cost controlled for the next 3 years and is still very young?

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07-13-2012, 08:55 AM
  #80
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I would do Krejci + for Ryan, and I really like Krejci. But krejci + Caron or 1st rounder for Ryan makes the team better, which has priority over emotional attachments to players. It helps the team in X ways:

1. Big 30+ goal scoring winger team needs. We need someone who can put the puck in the net when no one else can (See this years playoffs, one of the same reasons we wanted Parise for)

2. C is a position of strength on the Bruins, they have Seguin or Peverley who can fill in at top 6 C so it isn't that huge a blow losing Krejci. Pevs could play on Seguins wing but take faceoffs if people are worried about that

3. Huge help to the PP - it would be centered around Seguin and Ryan and could be dynamic.

4. Helps our bad depth at RW tremendously

5. Allows Seguin to slide into his natural long term position (again he doesn't have to be thrown into duty right away if he plays with Pevs.

Possible lines:

Lucic - Bergeron - Horton
Peverley - Seguin - Ryan
Marchand - Kelly - FA/Rookie/Caron if not traded
Paille - Campbell - Thornton
Bourque/rookie

Again that second line is if CJ wants Pevs on faceoff duty, If not I'd roll

Marchand - Bergy - Horton
Lucic - Seguin - Ryan
FA/Caron/Rook - Kelly - Pevs
Merlot

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to finally get all my thoughts out on this trade. I'm fine with out Ryan and really like Krejci but ultimately It would make the team better.
And also I would rather do Krejci and a first rather than Caron as the +. It gives us an extra body for 3rd line/injuries and we are most likely picking in mid-high 20s anyway (same as where Caron was picked). And Caron, even if his ceiling is 20-20 or 40ish points is better to have than a ? next draft. That my long .02 folks

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07-13-2012, 08:58 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Latrappe View Post
This is where the flaw is. If one of the two first lines is inconsistent, then your " scoring by committee " strategy is falling apart. That's why there's a lot of pressure on #46. He need to elevate his game and be more consistent in order to see this team score with more regularity. For me, it's not going to happen because old friend Krejci proved, in the past 3 years, that he is what he is: an inconsistent player. When you look at it, Seguin at C is almost inevitable and while there's a couple of very respected posters who are telling us that the FO absolutely " love " Krejci, i also think that their patience will wear thin sooner then expected. Krejci at 5 per, Lucic/Horton at 4... That's 13M right there and like it or not, you need production from this 13M.
Difference is the 3rd line in Boston has been, for a few seasons now, one that often will pick up the slack for one which may not be producing. However we put it, this team, under Julien has been, for the most part, a team that pops goals, they have gotten cold for spells for sure, sometimes, ill timed cold spells but......I have never seen a team who struggles to score but has one guy who pulls them singlehandedly out of it, and puts that struggling offensively team on his back.

I don`t mind the balanced attacks at all, with a lack of 40 goal man myself, there just aren`t teams out there these days with bunches of 30-40 goal players up and down their rosters. U know how I feel about Krejci and although I have nothing but respect and trust in this Management, what they tell us, and what happens with DK or anyone else, may very well be two different things if things change. If DK can`t come out of the gate this year and really solidify a consistency and justify having that #1 tag on him, wouldn`t at all be shocked if Chia, at the very least, starts seeing what`s out there, especially if Segs continues his development and progress in his game away from the puck

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Old
07-13-2012, 09:03 AM
  #82
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I would argue the same can be said about Bergy. Both Krejci and Bergy are real good centers. Both seem to finish yearly in the 15th-20th scoring for NHL centers. I think both are able to play off each other very well buying room for one another. When one is seeing the top shutdown pairing for the night the other seems to step up. It's a one two (1a/1b) punch that really seems to work for this team.

I just can't help but feel the Krejci signing came at a time that screamed "We the Brass see Tyler in the near future as a winger". Now his NTC doesn't kick in to July 1st 2013 which puts me in your boat and what I think is Neely and Chia's boat as well of: We'll assess what we have going into the season. If Seguin improves again on his sophomore season and Boston is still in need tp squeeze out a few more goals then Krejci becomes a massive trade chip going into the trade deadline.

I wouldn't mind a Krejci for Ryan swap this offseason as long as the plus isn't one of our top prospects (our 1st or Caron/Knight/Koko I'm fine with) but I also am not sold Chia and Co are viewing things the way the majority here seem to.
OOG explained clearly what the true meaning of a NTC/NMC is, and what it enables a player and the organization to do, I thought it was a death trap, a move that handcuffed franchises and literally left them "stuck" for lack of a better word with a player that perhaps they felt they needed to move to open space for another player etc........

Not even close, it`s there to protect the player from being shipped off to Siberia, not to absolutely, without question, keep that player in the Uniform of which the NTC/NMC was signed with. You`ll have to search the post by Dom which explained it, but those contracts have now officially become of little concern to me when it comes to being able to ever move a player with one, it places limits on where that player can go but it doesn`t squash any and all possibilities to move that player

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Old
07-13-2012, 09:03 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ratty View Post
Let's suppose that Horton is a no go because of his concussions, or he gets another one early in the season which puts his career in jeopardy. I pray this is not the case. But it is a real possibility. Don't you think there would be regrets hereabouts that PC didn't pull the trigger on a Ryan deal?

Then he'd be scrapping around and have to overpay for a top six scorer.
Also a good point, Horton is far from a lock to play and even if he does one elbow to the head and he could be retired

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07-13-2012, 09:05 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Who thinks it's illegal? I thought everyone agreed it was legal, but we were discussing if it was dirty.
I said it was cheap....it was clean and just beautiful but with some malice, serious meaning behind it, it was a conscious as opposed to subconscious action- sort of Dickens 'Tale of Two Cities' or actually how I feel about Richards himself. I dispise him but not only would take him on the Bruins but probably try and model my game after him if I played.

Don't have time to go deep into this- all my views and comments on the subject are in here two years ago; they are mine and molded from a bunch of folks; there are some of my buds who lurk and post here who have contributed and know my feelings on the hit and what was said, and really if you think I am off base or a knucklehead or whatever no matter

Richards is a smart sob and imo and others knew that at a certain time David Krejci would be 'crossing the street' as they say...good for him, it worked better than just a message. Anyway, it irked me then but no more after the Cup.

I do think it was a cheap cutesy predatory hit- but hey, in fairness probably something I would have done, but who's perfect.

There were lots of comments on this hit in and around hockey, both said to me and to my friends (yes, some post or atleast read here)...

in the end- I think it was a crap hit, clean and WELL THOUGHT out, by a guy who I'd take 7 days a week and twice in the playoffs.

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07-13-2012, 09:06 AM
  #85
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Taco - Moving Krejci for Ryan is done only when you know Seguin is ready to take over the #1 center spot. Krejci isn't a true top line center, neither is Bergeron or Kelly. Seguin might be, but it's too early to tell.

Everyone talks about this teams depth a center. It's a false positive. Sure we have a lot of good centers, but we don't have a that true top offensive line guy. Everyone is screaming for a winger, how about a big center that can play 20 minutes a night....someone you can lean on if Bergeron or Kelly were to miss time.

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07-13-2012, 09:07 AM
  #86
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There will be no trade(s).

Krejci will center the B's top line, will score 80 points with Lucic & Seguin as his wingers. HF will fall in love with #46 all over again.

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07-13-2012, 09:16 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by bruinsfan001 View Post
I have a question, whats wrong with the current line up that is demanding of change? I think this change would do more harm than good to be honest, simply due to the fact that you don't know how it will effect the rest of the team (same cup winning team). Also this team plays at its best when they're playing as a TEAM and not relying on one player for goals. Throw Ryan into the equation and your going to create more inconsistency and throw off the whole team dynamic. In my mind Boston has nothing to gain from this trade, its a lateral move at best. I think they should just stick with what has given them success in the past and not try to change that formula.
I believe the trade provides protection in the event Horton is hurt. It gives Seguin an opportunity to assume his natural position, which is more skilled.

I also feel that Ryan Spooner has opened a few eyes with his speed, stickhandling, scoring and passing, that he could be a centre option in a year or so. Then there's always CS. Its the classic selling from a position of strength.

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07-13-2012, 09:19 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
There will be no trade(s).

Krejci will center the B's top line, will score 80 points with Lucic & Seguin as his wingers. HF will fall in love with #46 all over again.
Nah, they'll complain about the lack of hitting, fighting and his play without the puck

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07-13-2012, 09:19 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Password is Taco View Post
I would do Krejci + for Ryan, and I really like Krejci. But krejci + Caron or 1st rounder for Ryan makes the team better, which has priority over emotional attachments to players. It helps the team in X ways:

1. Big 30+ goal scoring winger team needs. We need someone who can put the puck in the net when no one else can (See this years playoffs, one of the same reasons we wanted Parise for)

2. C is a position of strength on the Bruins, they have Seguin or Peverley who can fill in at top 6 C so it isn't that huge a blow losing Krejci. Pevs could play on Seguins wing but take faceoffs if people are worried about that

3. Huge help to the PP - it would be centered around Seguin and Ryan and could be dynamic.

4. Helps our bad depth at RW tremendously

5. Allows Seguin to slide into his natural long term position (again he doesn't have to be thrown into duty right away if he plays with Pevs.
DISCLAIMER: This post is a result of sourpuss malaise.

I hate to be such a goob, but you know sometimes you can't hold your fingertips and you have to chime in? Anyhow; to say "X" reasons - capital X - would actually imply "10"...you go on to list 5 reasons. X capital is generally understood to mean 10, whereas for usage as a variable, as in equations, one would generally use a lowercase "x".

I know, I know, I need better things to do with my time...somebody gimme a job...

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07-13-2012, 09:19 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McKuato View Post
If they sign Doan, they have another winger besides Selanne that makes Ryan an area of strength(the wing) that they would trade for a center(Krejci and area of strength on the B's).

As far as Seguin being a center, let's go by Chia's public comments which he stated that they see Seguin becoming a center eventually whether that's 2-3 years remains to be seen. I'm paraphrasing but that's essentially what he said.
So they do see him as a center, but don't need to rush him with the team as it sits.

So what Chia needs to figure out is do they move up the time frame and move Seguin to center a little earlier than planned in order to get a 30+ goal scoring winger with elite hands who is cost controlled for the next 3 years and is still very young?
Go back and look at the original post.

It says he alluded to ANA signing Doan and not trading Ryan.

That's where my confusion lies. Signing Doan makes Ryan more likely to be traded, not less.

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07-13-2012, 09:20 AM
  #91
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Krejci is very underrated by Bruins fans IMO.
Whew!

At last.

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07-13-2012, 09:24 AM
  #92
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Krejci is very underrated by Bruins fans IMO.
Not all Bruins fans.

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07-13-2012, 09:29 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by spokedB View Post
Whew!

At last.
Which is why I would not add much to DK to get Ryan.

I am a Krejci fan, and appreciate what he does, but I also like Ryan a great deal.

Thinking that Ryan at wing + Seguin at C makes the B's better than Seguin at wing + DK at C is completely different from undervaluing Krejci.

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07-13-2012, 09:31 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by 8spokesontheB View Post
DISCLAIMER: This post is a result of sourpuss malaise.

I hate to be such a goob, but you know sometimes you can't hold your fingertips and you have to chime in? Anyhow; to say "X" reasons - capital X - would actually imply "10"...you go on to list 5 reasons. X capital is generally understood to mean 10, whereas for usage as a variable, as in equations, one would generally use a lowercase "x".

I know, I know, I need better things to do with my time...somebody gimme a job...
Haha my bad!

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07-13-2012, 09:33 AM
  #95
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Since my tweet was mentioned will just say this-- Murray will ask for those guys-- which is what I said in response to the thought/belief that Krejci alone or a 1st+ prospect gets it done. Doesn't mean he'll get them, but any GM worth his salt will try.

The mistake a lot of people make is thinking that the Ducks value Krejci the way the Bruins do. Perhaps they are all about adding him at the cost of Ryan, but I've heard that by virtue of their limited exposure to him, not as high on him as B's fans seem to think. Right now, DK46 far more valuable to the Bruins than he is on the trade market. The team knows what he brings, but don't assume everyone else does.

Fans throw statements around like "perfect fit" and "makes perfect sense" to describe a Krejci-Ryan swap.

I'm not sure it does.


Last edited by Kirk- NEHJ: 07-13-2012 at 09:39 AM.
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07-13-2012, 09:37 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ View Post
Since my tweet was mentioned will just say this-- Murray will ask for those guys-- which is what I said in response to the thought/belief that Krejci alone or a 1st+ prospect gets it done. Doesn't mean he'll get them, but any GM worth his salt will try.

The mistake a lot of people make is that the Ducks value Krejci the way the Bruins do. Perhaps they are all about adding him at the cost of Ryan, but I've heard that by virtue of their limited exposure to him, not as high on him as B's fans seem to think. Right now, DK46 far more valuable to the Bruins than he is on the trade market. The team knows what he brings, but don't assume everyone else does.

Fans throw statements around like "perfect fit" and "makes perfect sense" to describe a Krejci-Ryan swap.

I'm not sure it does.

Thomas is a perfect fit for the Leafs according to some fans. Eventhough they are dead wrong, they will consider it a possibility until it's officially not happening.

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07-13-2012, 09:40 AM
  #97
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Trading DK for Ryan does not make the team better, I would say it hurts the team. If you could keep DK and add Ryan I could see it. They guy had 57 points and he played with (let this sink in) SUPER stars. Not impressed at all. Looch could get 40 playing with those guys.

Who will be our playmaker? Bergeron...no.

Imagine Nash playing with those guys...Getzlaf-Perry-Selanne-Koivu.

He does have a decent contract for the next 3 years at 5.5, but losing DK mitigates any gain he brings. I don't get it...oh btw he wants to play for the Flyers, so in my mind he is an idiot.

If the Flyers give up Schenn for him they need their heads examine.

Also Ryan+ for DK is silly. You all love stats...look at the stats then. Makes no sense.

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07-13-2012, 09:42 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Kiss The Ring View Post
Thomas is a perfect fit for the Leafs according to some fans. Eventhough they are dead wrong, they will consider it a possibility until it's officially not happening.
Not sure what this has to do with Krejci, but I will bite.

Apparently, members of the TOR organization haven't consulted with you on Thomas not being a good fit?

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07-13-2012, 09:49 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by GloryDaze4877 View Post
Go back and look at the original post.

It says he alluded to ANA signing Doan and not trading Ryan.

That's where my confusion lies. Signing Doan makes Ryan more likely to be traded, not less.
Ah... reading is fundamental my bad, but at least we agree.

I'm just going to take this opportunity to use the phrase of the moment:
False Positive
Cuz all the cool kids are doing it

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07-13-2012, 10:12 AM
  #100
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The more I think about this deal, the more it makes sense for the B's. At some point Seguin needs to be at Centre, and heaven knows we need goal a goal scorer, especially with the uncertain future of Horton. We are strong down the middle and can afford to move a centre for a scorer. I love Krecji and would hate to see him leave, but this deal makes the b's a better team IMO. Also, if Horton does come back healthy we now have 2 legitmate 30 goal scorers. Chia do this deal

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