My thoughts are: Far before 82 games completed, this D crew will be dead tired of getting pushed over. There isn't enough strength, that's the problem. Also Emelin being unable to fight at all, because of his face plate, doesn't help.
I agree. If you're going to bring back Moen, and sign more grit in Prust and Armstrong, I think they should do the same with the D corps. If you're going to change the culture on this team to "we're tough to play against" well you need more than just a battle hardened bottom 6 to make it happen. Go out and sign a Hannan. I couldn't care less if he makes mistakes, just help bash heads for a year. We're not winning anything this year, but at least we can win some respect back.
p.s. i don't know how physical Hannan is, but i'm sure he's an upgrade on Diaz, Kaberle and Weber.
It's a LOT easier to talk about getting a top 4 d-man with size and toughness than to actually get one.
The Habs defence could be one of the best in the entire league with their puck moving capabilities.
Ok you showed your hockey IQ with that statement... McQuaid doesn't suck nor does Peckhamm.
So you wouldn't want a 6'4 200 plus pound right handed defenseman that is 25 years old and is signed for 3 more years at under 1.6 million dollars and has had 26 fights in the NHL and only 2 loses (as per drop your gloves.com) and is a plus 46 in the last 2 years. Oh and don't forget he has already won a stanley cup. HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT ADAM MCQUAID IS A BAD DEFENSEMAN? PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF?
Ok you showed your hockey IQ with that statement... McQuaid doesn't suck nor does Peckhamm.
So you wouldn't want a 6'4 200 plus pound right handed defenseman that is 25 years old and is signed for 3 more years at under 1.6 million dollars and has had 26 fights in the NHL and only 2 loses (as per drop your gloves.com) and is a plus 46 in the last 2 years. Oh and don't forget he has already won a stanley cup. HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT ADAM MCQUAID IS A BAD DEFENSEMAN? PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF?
maybe you shouldnt talk about hockey I.Q. if that's the only thing that comes to your mind when describing all the qualities a player has...
maybe you shouldnt talk about hockey I.Q. if that's the only thing that comes to your mind when describing all the qualities a player has...
I wasn't describing all the qualities his player has I was describing the qualities the HABS lack on this group of defensemen they have signed this year and in the future. Adam Mcquaid would be perfect for the HABS and he might even be good enough to play alongside Markov instead of Emelin, If not he would be great on the 3rd pairing with Kaberle. Or maybe you guys like seeing guys run over Price and getting away with it? I sure don't !!! because with that group of 8 defense we have signed not 1 of them have the qualities that i have talked about to stand up for PRICE. and please don't say Francis Bouillon would sick up for price he is almost 40 and is 5'7 and has got into 4 fights since 2009 and has lost all of them.
Do the Habs still need a strong depth d-man with experience and leadership?
Our Top 4
Subban
Gorges
Markov
Emelin
After these main 4 we have,
Boullion
Weber
Kaberle
Diaz (expected to sign)
These 4 are basically our depth guys that will be either on special teams or bottom pairing, but if MB can move one of Kaberle, Diaz, Weber could the habs sign one of these guys,
Scott Hannan
Brett Clark
Carlo Colaiacovo
Steve Eminger
I wouldn't mind one of the above all solid d-man who can manage 15+ mins.
Your thoughts??
The bottom four don't inspire me but in a league of 30 teams and a cap you won't find eight solid Dmen anywhere.
I wasn't describing all the qualities his player has I was describing the qualities the HABS lack on this group of defensemen they have signed this year and in the future. Adam Mcquaid would be perfect for the HABS and he might even be good enough to play alongside Markov instead of Emelin, If not he would be great on the 3rd pairing with Kaberle. Or maybe you guys like seeing guys run over Price and getting away with it? I sure don't !!! because with that group of 8 defense we have signed not 1 of them have the qualities that i have talked about to stand up for PRICE. and please don't say Francis Bouillon would sick up for price he is almost 40 and is 5'7 and has got into 4 fights since 2009 and has lost all of them.
Very much agree. They literally have one guy who focuses on being a physical D, and that's Emelin, who like you said, can't fight, and has just one season under his belt. Getting Tinordi in 2 years or so will not be enough to balance out the puck movers and physical D on this team. I don't know if McQuaid is the answer, but i'm with you philosophically speaking. The team needs some intimidating players on D, and right now they barely have any.
The bottom four don't inspire me but in a league of 30 teams and a cap you won't find eight solid Dmen anywhere.
Personally, I'd much rather give Diaz time to develop his defensive game than to ice an Eminger or a Cola...Colai... I'm not typing that name.
From what Blues fans are saying, he was rather terrible down the stretch and he was causing a lot of turnovers. I get the whole "Diaz is redundant", but he could improve, and he could play a sound defensive game. Isn't that what really matter in the end? Toughness is fine, but if it means adding a liability on the ice, I'm not on board.
As for Hannan, I think there's a reason why he hasn't signed yet. I don't think he can keep up with the pace of the game anymore. I'll admit that I don't know much about his more recent performances though.
But again, when I read that list of names, I just don't understand why we would sacrifice a Weber, a Diaz or a St-Denis to get one of those guys. We have better in our system. It would be, at best, a lateral move IMO.
If your problem is your 5-6th D, then really you don't have a problem.
The real question is: Say Subban goes down, who can take his 24 minutes a game ?
What most team would do: call up a young player, spread the ice time around and hope for the best. There aren't many teams in the league that could easily replace a dman that logs 24 mins a night in case of injuries.
If your problem is your 5-6th D, then really you don't have a problem.
The real question is: Say Subban goes down, who can take his 24 minutes a game ?
I'd rather plan on prevention than healing. If Subban or Markov, or Gorges goes down it's most likely because they're getting worn out quite faster than they should.
To add to the thread:
Emelin & Bouillion are not the kind of defense men that are needed in front of the crease. They're solid hitters, not strong on intimidation and sheer power. What we need is a bear on skates. Park him in front of Price, problem solved.
Ok you showed your hockey IQ with that statement... McQuaid doesn't suck nor does Peckhamm.
So you wouldn't want a 6'4 200 plus pound right handed defenseman that is 25 years old and is signed for 3 more years at under 1.6 million dollars and has had 26 fights in the NHL and only 2 loses (as per drop your gloves.com) and is a plus 46 in the last 2 years. Oh and don't forget he has already won a stanley cup. HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT ADAM MCQUAID IS A BAD DEFENSEMAN? PLEASE EXPLAIN YOURSELF?
We have been so passive for so long that it will take many years to erase that sentiment that a lot of the Habs fans have.
Hopefully Bergevin addresses our weaknesses on the D sooner rather than later.
What most team would do: call up a young player, spread the ice time around and hope for the best. There aren't many teams in the league that could easily replace a dman that logs 24 mins a night in case of injuries.
The problem though is that you already have Emelin playing top 4 minutes when he hasn't shown he is capable of handling that.
So if one of Subban, Markov, Gorges go down, you have 2 of Emelin, Diaz, Weber, Kaberle playing 20+ minutes a night, with the 3rd one and Bouillon getting upped to 18 minutes a night.
The problem though is that you already have Emelin playing top 4 minutes when he hasn't shown he is capable of handling that.
So if one of Subban, Markov, Gorges go down, you have 2 of Emelin, Diaz, Weber, Kaberle playing 20+ minutes a night, with the 3rd one and Bouillon getting upped to 18 minutes a night.
Again, most team would be stuck in a similar situation.
We're getting way ahead of ourselves though. Every year I've watched the Canadiens, the team evolved a lot over the year. Nobody had Kaberle penciled in the line-up at the beginning of last season. I think that what is most likely going to happen is that one or two player will be traded/sent down/claimed on waivers, a Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, Nash or St-Denis will be called-up and become a fixture, play very well and become a fixture on the Habs' blue line. That's just a prediction though.
All I'm saying is, a lot of things can happen during a season. We have plenty of guys capable of handling minutes in the NHL. We just have to hope that one or many of them can rise up to the occasion and become a big time player if we need him to be.
EDIT: Yeah, I guess the Kaberle example is pretty much what everyone is saying: go get a dman that fixes a team's problem. I personally am not in favor of this approach. Most of those "big guys that can clear the net" that have been mentioned so far have other glaring weaknesses in their game. What's the point of getting a guy to clear up the front of the net if he's going to get beat in other ways?
Very much agree. They literally have one guy who focuses on being a physical D, and that's Emelin, who like you said, can't fight, and has just one season under his belt. Getting Tinordi in 2 years or so will not be enough to balance out the puck movers and physical D on this team. I don't know if McQuaid is the answer, but i'm with you philosophically speaking. The team needs some intimidating players on D, and right now they barely have any.
Ok explain why he sucks ? If you know that he sucks you should be able to tell me why he sucks, what makes him suck? Are you saying that Daiz/Boullion/Stdenis and Weber are better then him? and that they are all better fits for this montreal team?
I'm convined Emelin will be Top 4 next year, watching him throughout the season you could see his game improve as he adjusted. The thing that sealed it for me was his preformance during the world's, he was relied upon heavily and he came through.
Our D depth is fine, we have a Kaberle as our 5th D thats a Luxury most teams don't have. The only issue is lack of RH handed shot on the PP, fingers crossed that Weber develops into that
I doubt we sign another defensement, we already have 8 (with Diaz), if we are in need of more, we're gonna take from the bulldogs
If the Habs go with 8 D, I'd like to see them sign another veteran D for Hamilton as injuries are going to hit so if the Dogs lose St-Denis for any length, then the oldest D we'd have would be Nash who has played 1 full season so far (although he is 25 at least). There's Kyle Hagel as well but I don't know that much about him so not sure if he ends up in the ECHL or not as he barely played last season and they do have some bodies with Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Nash, St-Denis, Pateryn, Stejskal. But would still like to see them add if possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Vole
I'm convined Emelin will be Top 4 next year, watching him throughout the season you could see his game improve as he adjusted. The thing that sealed it for me was his preformance during the world's, he was relied upon heavily and he came through.
Our D depth is fine, we have a Kaberle as our 5th D thats a Luxury most teams don't have. The only issue is lack of RH handed shot on the PP, fingers crossed that Weber develops into that
Not sure how they will work the D this year but my guess would be something like this if all healthy,
Gorges Subban
Markov Diaz
Emelin Cube
Kabs Weber
Or at least that's what I hope as i personally do not want to see Kabs/Weber in the lineup, so the less I see them the better.
The problem is having someone play their off side. I'd rather see Emelin stay on his natural left side, I know he can play RD but I'd rather see him play at the side he looks best at since he should be a part of the Habs future on defense. But if the Cube can't handle playing his off side then Emelin may have to unless they go with Weber.
Ok explain why he sucks ? If you know that he sucks you should be able to tell me why he sucks, what makes him suck? Are you saying that Daiz/Boullion/Stdenis and Weber are better then him? and that they are all better fits for this montreal team?
Diaz is better.
Weber has potential, he just needs to put it all together.
St-Denis is in the AHL, Bouillon is likely to be our 7-8th Dman.
McQuaid being better than Bouillon or St-Denis doesn't say much. It actually says nothing. The guy is just big. After that he's a bottom pairing D, and a healthy scratched one if you have a strong D squad.
The bottom four don't inspire me but in a league of 30 teams and a cap you won't find eight solid Dmen anywhere.
Wrong way around. It's not the bottom 4 that's the problem, it's the top 4.
Marky: Mr. Glass, 20 games in 2 years.
Subby: Really good but 3rd year, still learning.
Gorges: Love the guy, all good except 2 goals a year don't help much in the top 4.
Emelin: 2nd year NHL, roll of the dice in the top 4.
Very risky top 4. Not good at all. We'll get killed this year if that's the plan.
Diaz is better.
Weber has potential, he just needs to put it all together.
St-Denis is in the AHL, Bouillon is likely to be our 7-8th Dman.
McQuaid being better than Bouillon or St-Denis doesn't say much. It actually says nothing. The guy is just big. After that he's a bottom pairing D, and a healthy scratched one if you have a strong D squad.
Definitely not worth getting all amped up over.
Well someone has to play on the 3rd pairing so why not a big /tough/young/cheap/ stanley cup winning player? How do you consider him a healty scratch type of dman on a good team? He played in the top 6 for Boston when they won the stanley cup and he was only 23 ?
Anyways I can't change anyones mind but I know and so does all the smart hockey fans McQuaid would be a perfect dman to play with Kaberle on the 3rd pairing. I bet if I ask this question on every board here who would you rather have McQuaid or 1 of the following Bouillon/Daiz/Weber i know 25 + teams would come back with McQuaid. He is hands down the perfect bottom pair defensemen.
Well someone has to play on the 3rd pairing so why not a big /tough/young/cheap/ stanley cup winning player? How do you consider him a healty scratch type of dman on a good team? He played in the top 6 for Boston when they won the stanley cup and he was only 23 ?
Anyways I can't change anyones mind but I know and so does all the smart hockey fans McQuaid would be a perfect dman to play with Kaberle on the 3rd pairing. I bet if I ask this question on every board here who would you rather have McQuaid or 1 of the following Bouillon/Daiz/Weber i know 25 + teams would come back with McQuaid. He is hands down the perfect bottom pair defensemen.
Not sure why you're so upset over this.
I don't care if he won the cup, plenty of bad players have won the cup. Doesn't Chris Osgood have like 4 cups? Does this make him one of the best goalies of modern times? Of course not.
I don't need to know what other people from other boards think. I can form my own opinion on the matter. Point is, McQuaid is not really reliable. He brings a physical aspect to the game, which seems to be the ONLY positive point you can bring up, and that's about it. He isn't all that great defensively, not a great puck mover, below average skater, not a great fighter, not even a specialist on the PP or PK, really, he's very very average for a bottom pair guy.
Nothing to get bent out of shape over.
I wouldn't take McQuaid over Diaz on my team. No. Over Bouillon? Ya. Over Campoli? Ya. Over Weber? that depends on the rest of the team. If we already have Diaz, Markov, Kaberle, than yea, I'd probably prefer to put some size on our back end instead of yet another smaller puck mover, but that's not because McQuaid is better than Weber. It's because he'd fill a need that Weber can't. If we were lacking puck movers, I'd pick Weber over McQuaid.
Anyways, McQuaid is in Boston for 2 more years. So, not sure what the discussion is all about really.
Do the Habs still need a strong depth d-man with experience and leadership?
Our Top 4
Subban
Gorges
Markov
Emelin
After these main 4 we have,
Boullion
Weber
Kaberle
Diaz (expected to sign)
These 4 are basically our depth guys that will be either on special teams or bottom pairing, but if MB can move one of Kaberle, Diaz, Weber could the habs sign one of these guys,
Scott Hannan
Brett Clark
Carlo Colaiacovo
Steve Eminger
I wouldn't mind one of the above all solid d-man who can manage 15+ mins.
Your thoughts??
We don't need more depth, we need another top 4 guy.
Very much agree. They literally have one guy who focuses on being a physical D, and that's Emelin, who like you said, can't fight, and has just one season under his belt. Getting Tinordi in 2 years or so will not be enough to balance out the puck movers and physical D on this team. I don't know if McQuaid is the answer, but i'm with you philosophically speaking. The team needs some intimidating players on D, and right now they barely have any.
McQuaid intimidates nobody. He's a #5 d-man at best. At least Diaz has NHL skill, can move the puck and play on the PP while still being defensively responsible.
Not sure why you're so upset over this.
I don't care if he won the cup, plenty of bad players have won the cup. Doesn't Chris Osgood have like 4 cups? Does this make him one of the best goalies of modern times? Of course not.
I don't need to know what other people from other boards think. I can form my own opinion on the matter. Point is, McQuaid is not really reliable. He brings a physical aspect to the game, which seems to be the ONLY positive point you can bring up, and that's about it. He isn't all that great defensively, not a great puck mover, below average skater, not a great fighter, not even a specialist on the PP or PK, really, he's very very average for a bottom pair guy.
Nothing to get bent out of shape over.
I wouldn't take McQuaid over Diaz on my team. No. Over Bouillon? Ya. Over Campoli? Ya. Over Weber? that depends on the rest of the team. If we already have Diaz, Markov, Kaberle, than yea, I'd probably prefer to put some size on our back end instead of yet another smaller puck mover, but that's not because McQuaid is better than Weber. It's because he'd fill a need that Weber can't. If we were lacking puck movers, I'd pick Weber over McQuaid.
Anyways, McQuaid is in Boston for 2 more years. So, not sure what the discussion is all about really.
Kriss, McQuaid is a + 46 and has 25 points over the last two years.
Diaz is a - 7 with 16 points last year.
Weber is a - 7 with 29 points over the last two years.
McQuaid is a physical DMan who can clear the crease and fight. Weber and Diaz couldnt hurt a fly.
McQuaid is not available but he (his type) is exactly who we need on this team on the bottom pairing.
