HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Do the Habs need defense depth?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-20-2012, 04:15 PM
  #126
Goldthorpe
Meditating Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,218
vCash: 500
I don't think our defensive depth as it is now is playoff worthy. But on the other hand, I'm not sure if I would make a move if I was Bergevin.

What we lack isn't another 3rd liner, what we lack is a bona-fide top defenseman at the level of Subban or healthy-Markov, in order to push Gorges and especially Emelin down the chart.

Unfortunately, finding such a player isn't easy, and if one is available, he will cost a lot in either assets, or UFA money.

Bergevin knows he has three promising D prospects coming in the pro next year in Beaulieu, Tinordi and Ellis. These guys will need seasoning, but overall, Bergin is probably banking on, say, one of them making the team next year, another one in 2-3 years, and another one never. These guys will need to play, and that's why he may not want to commit big bucks on a long-term vets when he's not in a "win right now" mode anyway.

His disposable assets and cap space will be way more usefuly spent for a forward, because our future prospect isn't as good at that position (Gally notwithstanding).

Goldthorpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 07:36 PM
  #127
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,373
vCash: 500
The bigger issue than depth, is that we have too much of the same thing. The defense lacks certain dimensions.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-20-2012, 08:47 PM
  #128
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcyhabs View Post
O'Byrne maybe? After watching him (non-star, big, fairly fast, hits, blocks shots, sometimes looks awkward) get run out of town on a rail I worry what will happen to Tinordi. Watch Tinordi have a couple of awkward big guy moments and be flamed out.

O'Byrne may not be great but he was exactly what the habs needed last year. And he did well with the Avs (played beside an offensive D against good players, hit, blocked shots, wasn't noticeable, good +/- relative to team yes I know it's a hated stat I don't know his corsis etc.).

The habs have Subban, Markov, and Gorges. And lots of fairly effective non-physical offensive types. And Emelin who tends to get killed on his off side. The D would be acceptable with one more physical stay at home type. Doesn't look like they will get one this year, maybe in mid-season if the team surprises early.
The Jacques Martin legacy.

O'Byrne was playing good defensive hockey during the Halak inspired playoff run........and was press boxed against the bigger more physical Flyers.....and watched as we lost an uninspired series where the Habs were out-muscled in front of Halak.

Next season, more of the same from Martin who decided that press boxing O'Byrne was the key to winning a Cup.....and then was shipped out of Montreal.

And last season we watched the fruits of Martin ripen with our non-physical Dmen.

O'Byrne would significantly make this defense much much better.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 04:27 AM
  #129
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
That's what makes hockey forums interesting. We all have differing opinions.

Mine isnt right or wrong and neither is yours.
Relativism, the academic disease of the 21st century. You'll do well at university.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 08:31 AM
  #130
firewagon77*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 82
vCash: 500
The only d-man left on ufa market is cam barker 6"3 220 pounds 26 years old he was drafted 3rd overall but has never lived up to it,although he did have a 40 point season in chicago.

firewagon77* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 09:17 AM
  #131
NLHabsFan
Registered User
 
NLHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,550
vCash: 500
Depth is not the issue, it is the quality of the depth. We need more balance and a stronger top end. Difficult to obtain a top pairing dman though.

NLHabsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 10:14 AM
  #132
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeypuck191 View Post
The only d-man left on ufa market is cam barker 6"3 220 pounds 26 years old he was drafted 3rd overall but has never lived up to it,although he did have a 40 point season in chicago.
Barker is awful. I think the only guys I'd consider would be "steady veterans", like Kubina, Roszival, or Hannan... but I'm not actually out there promoting any of them as signings, since I think it would also take a positive scouting report on them (which I don't have)... I don't want somebody who has just lost the critical step and can't actually contribute. I also don't know what money they're looking for. But I'd be open to such a signing if the scouting report was satisfactory, and the price was right, on a short-term deal (like, ideally just 1 year).

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 10:23 AM
  #133
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Barker is awful.
I personally don't think Barker is that awful. He's just not a guy you can ask to anchor a pairing defensively, nor deliver a lot of offense (especially on offensively starved teams like Minnesota or even Edmonton, who didn't even out-score us last year). I wouldn't be surprised if someone eventually got good use out of him by pairing him with a really solid offensive AND defensive contributor with a RH shot (on a 2nd or 3rd pairing, of course). But I'm not suggesting to go after the guy, either.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 10:26 AM
  #134
firewagon77*
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 82
vCash: 500
scott hannan is terrible he can't even skate.

firewagon77* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 11:10 AM
  #135
Vsevolod Bobrov
Burn the boats !
 
Vsevolod Bobrov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I personally don't think Barker is that awful. He's just not a guy you can ask to anchor a pairing defensively, nor deliver a lot of offense (especially on offensively starved teams like Minnesota or even Edmonton, who didn't even out-score us last year). I wouldn't be surprised if someone eventually got good use out of him by pairing him with a really solid offensive AND defensive contributor with a RH shot (on a 2nd or 3rd pairing, of course). But I'm not suggesting to go after the guy, either.
He is.

Vsevolod Bobrov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 11:30 AM
  #136
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,111
vCash: 500
i'd say that "depth" is not the issue, we're lacking a solid top-4 caliber player (arguably top-pairing, if Markov isn't reliable), but we have 5 guys who are solid "depth" dmen

Top-Pairing
Subban
Markov*

Top-4
Gorges

bottom-pairing/4-5-6
Emelin
Diaz
Kaberle
Bouillion
Weber

reserves
St-Denis
Beaulieu
Tinordi
Ellis


really, if Kaberle was the player he used to be, or if he would give us solid $/value, then we'd be set. If Bergie can find a way to swap him out and replace him with a 4-5M$ dman who plays quality top-4 minutes, we are set and probably for a while (assuming at least 1-2 of Beaulieu/Tinordi/Ellis/Bennett/Dietz/Thrower evolve into NHL players over next 2-3 seasons).

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 11:32 AM
  #137
Rise from the Ashes
@JoelGabbayNHL
 
Rise from the Ashes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dollard-Des-Ormeaux
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,915
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Rise from the Ashes
One of Diaz, Weber or Kaberle has to go. We have to acquire a bigger defence like Michal Rozsival.

Rise from the Ashes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 11:36 AM
  #138
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,592
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
He is.
Relative to his draft ranking? Sure. I'd rather have him than Bouillon though, for example.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 11:42 AM
  #139
guest1467
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 24,824
vCash: 500
We don't need depth, we need a two-way top pairing/second pairing defensemen to solidify things.

guest1467 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 11:52 AM
  #140
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Relativism, the academic disease of the 21st century. You'll do well at university.
Oh, OK. I guess I should have just told him to **** off, eh?

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 11:56 AM
  #141
SouthernHab
Registered User
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 9,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeypuck191 View Post
The only d-man left on ufa market is cam barker 6"3 220 pounds 26 years old he was drafted 3rd overall but has never lived up to it,although he did have a 40 point season in chicago.
What about this guy? I thought he was still available.


Carlo Colaiacovo.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 11:57 AM
  #142
Rise from the Ashes
@JoelGabbayNHL
 
Rise from the Ashes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dollard-Des-Ormeaux
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,915
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Rise from the Ashes
Let me ask you all something. If you are a hockey team and you are about to play against the Habs. Are you not licking your chops that you can play against soft/injured defenders like Diaz, Markov, Kaberle and Weber? Sure Bouillon, Emelin, Subban, Gorges and Subban can hold their own, but still. I would rather cut one of those softer D and get someone tougher.

Rise from the Ashes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 12:41 PM
  #143
DrunkenHabz
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 197
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rise from the Ashes View Post
Let me ask you all something. If you are a hockey team and you are about to play against the Habs. Are you not licking your chops that you can play against soft/injured defenders like Diaz, Markov, Kaberle and Weber? Sure Bouillon, Emelin, Subban, Gorges and Subban can hold their own, but still. I would rather cut one of those softer D and get someone tougher.
Ladies and gentlemen, behold the Subban Twins.

DrunkenHabz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 06:46 PM
  #144
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,179
vCash: 500
Some reactionaries would have the Habs trade for Hamrlik to make the D deeper. I'd prefer not to set the sights so low. The Habs' best hope is to develop their own raw talent.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 06:57 PM
  #145
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Relative to his draft ranking? Sure. I'd rather have him than Bouillon though, for example.
I wouldn't. He can't really be one of your offense guys, he isn't smart defensively, he doesn't use his size... I don't think it's even a case of him being over-priced on his last contract, I actually don't think he's as good as our current top-8. I'm not sure he's even quite NHL-calibre. Borderline. Patrick Traverse-esque. You don't want to be the team that ends up desperate enough to sign him.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 07:03 PM
  #146
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
What about this guy? I thought he was still available.


Carlo Colaiacovo.
See Campoli, Chris. Only with the injury-prone angle. I don't think we "need" depth, and I would far rather have a top-4 solid guy too, but that's definitely not out there. Still, if we were going to add anybody at all to change up the mix, I'd be looking at size/veteran stablilizer types, if such were out there. We don't "need" one of them either, but on the right terms, one could be an asset. They are usually moveable at the deadline, for example. If you had one on decent terms, it could be like buying another 2nd rounder, if things went south for us again.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 07:48 PM
  #147
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,179
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
See Campoli, Chris. Only with the injury-prone angle. I don't think we "need" depth, and I would far rather have a top-4 solid guy too, but that's definitely not out there. Still, if we were going to add anybody at all to change up the mix, I'd be looking at size/veteran stablilizer types, if such were out there. We don't "need" one of them either, but on the right terms, one could be an asset. They are usually moveable at the deadline, for example. If you had one on decent terms, it could be like buying another 2nd rounder, if things went south for us again.
Hal Gill fits that description but I'd rather have the second rounder the Habs received for him. The Preds felt good about the trade but it didn't get them very far. Since then they've shed Suter, Radulov, and AKost and could lose Weber. I'd say their chances of making the 2013 playoffs have been set back. Maybe they'd be willing to trade Gill for a fourth rounder, but that would represent retrogression for the Habs.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 10:16 PM
  #148
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Hal Gill fits that description but I'd rather have the second rounder the Habs received for him. The Preds felt good about the trade but it didn't get them very far. Since then they've shed Suter, Radulov, and AKost and could lose Weber. I'd say their chances of making the 2013 playoffs have been set back. Maybe they'd be willing to trade Gill for a fourth rounder, but that would represent retrogression for the Habs.
In our trade deadline situation, it was definitely a good thing to get the 2nd for Gill. With our current roster situation, it *might* be a good thing to get a Hal Gill on the UFA market. I'd take Gill back today. If he was UFA right now. It's the kind of situation where you can have your cake, eat it, and then maybe even go back for seconds. If Gill lost another gear, indeed, he might only draw a 4th instead of a 2nd next time around, if we had the misfortune to be in the same trade deadline situation again. But it's still just Mr. Molson's money to me to get the UFA-leftover equivalent, if indeed Hannan/Kubina/Roszival/somebody is indeed in that category. Well, that and maybe a waiver loss of the Weakest Link, or another separate trade, in the event we were breaking camp with 9 healthy D after adding another.

Some of these leftovers might even still be leftover (a la Campoli, a la MAB the time before) when camps open, so we might even be able to just wait and see if an injury or something comes up before making the move.

Blind Gardien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-21-2012, 11:15 PM
  #149
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Oh, OK. I guess I should have just told him to **** off, eh?
I was just kidding man. You were polite, and that's a good thing.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-22-2012, 10:53 AM
  #150
Tiger Svoboda
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 131
vCash: 500
I miss Roman Hamrlik

Tiger Svoboda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:06 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.