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Old
07-12-2012, 10:08 PM
  #1
Stephen
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Washington-Detroit

Just out of curiosity, would a healthy Mike Green for Niklas Kronwall be fair value between Detroit and Washington?

The thinking is Washington will have John Carlson as a puckmoving offensive defenseman to replace Mike Green in Washington, and Niklas Kronwall will give Washington a huge boost as far as a playoff warrior and leader in order for them to take the next step in developing as contenders in their battles in the east against Boston, New York, Philadelphia. In return, the Wings would get a (assuming healthy) youngish dynamic puck moving offensive defenseman to help with the transition game and be a big shot from the point who can be a long term building block and plug in some of the production lost over the past couple of years with the loss of Lidstrom and Rafalski, though Green probably isn't as intelligent as the Wings are used to for their dmen...

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07-12-2012, 10:18 PM
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Just out of curiosity, why the hell would Detroit give up Kronwall for Green when they've got Brendan Smith coming up to play the exact same role Green fills?

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07-12-2012, 10:38 PM
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Kronwall is their defensive rock guy now. Green is risky

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07-12-2012, 10:43 PM
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green isn't signed right now and Kronwall has a very cap friendly contract so i wouldn't do it

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07-12-2012, 10:46 PM
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Red Wings could really use Green, but they can't afford to lose Kronwall (or Smith).

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07-12-2012, 11:08 PM
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Would prefer to get Kronwall to pair with Green rather than replace him. Would fill one hole and open another for the Capitals.

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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Just out of curiosity, why the hell would Detroit give up Kronwall for Green when they've got Brendan Smith coming up to play the exact same role Green fills?
One is a prospect and one is a two time Norris finalist. If you don't see that difference, I don't know what to tell you.

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07-12-2012, 11:14 PM
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dbridge
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A healthy Green for Kronwall might be somewhat even, but I have my doubts Green will ever be fully healthy again. He averaged 1.04 points per game from 2008-2010, but .38 over the last 2 seasons. All the games he's missed aside, he hasn't been himself even when in the line-up. The risk is just way too high for Detroit. The Wings blue line is clearly depleted right now, but trading their best defenseman for a risky offensive d-man isn't the route to improve it.

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07-12-2012, 11:24 PM
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Jaromir Jagrbombs
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Kronwall is criminally underrated IMO, wouldn't touch this if I was Detroit. Especially with all the health concerns about Green.

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07-12-2012, 11:40 PM
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john carlson has not been remotely successful trying to carry mike green's offensive load. his pp work has been weak. without pressure on the occasional 2nd unit, he has made some plays, but the majority of his pts come at even strenth checking the opposing top line.

as for why would the wings want green when they have smith? green's offensive game has been the best in the league over a 4 year period til the injuries took over. if you judge him damaged goods, thats one thing. if you judge him healthy, green's offensve game is unique and uncomparable to any defenseman currently in the league.

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07-12-2012, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Would prefer to get Kronwall to pair with Green rather than replace him. Would fill one hole and open another for the Capitals.


One is a prospect and one is a two time Norris finalist. If you don't see that difference, I don't know what to tell you.
One had as many points as the other last season playing nearly 20 less games while only averaging 15 minutes a night.

Also, if Smith is as mediocre defensively as Green is, I wouldn't put him up for the Norris either.

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07-13-2012, 12:12 AM
  #11
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The people whining about Green's injuries are seriously overreacting. The injury two seasons ago was a concussion, and by all accounts he's had no recurring symptoms from that. He injured his ankle on a fluke play at the start of the season (took a puck to the face and somehow turned his ankle, no idea how that worked) and it seems to be behind him. The sports hernia he had takes a while to recover from (as his poor offensive production at the end of last season shows), but is a 100% fix according to others who have had the surgery, like Danny Briere. None of his problems are of the "lasting" or "nagging" variety like Hemsky's shoulder injuries or Mueller's severe concussions, and he's never been particularly injury prone before the past two years. There's no reason for them to factor so significantly into his value going forward.

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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Would prefer to get Kronwall to pair with Green rather than replace him. Would fill one hole and open another for the Capitals.
Gotta admit though, pairing Kronwall with Orlov would make for one of the most punishing defensive pairings in the league. Those two would be fun to watch. I agree though that the Caps wouldn't do this. They simply can't afford to lose his production, particularly his ability on the PP, with no one but Carlson to fill the hole.

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07-13-2012, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fst6 View Post
Kronwall is their defensive rock guy now. Green is risky
More or less this.

Kronwall's not going anywhere.

To answer the op's question though, not even close to fair value. Detroit gets fleeced.

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07-13-2012, 07:57 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Just out of curiosity, why the hell would Detroit give up Kronwall for Green when they've got Brendan Smith coming up to play the exact same role Green fills?
This. Kronwall won't be moved, but if he is it won't be for Mike Green.

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07-13-2012, 08:42 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
john carlson has not been remotely successful trying to carry mike green's offensive load. his pp work has been weak. without pressure on the occasional 2nd unit, he has made some plays, but the majority of his pts come at even strenth checking the opposing top line.

as for why would the wings want green when they have smith? green's offensive game has been the best in the league over a 4 year period til the injuries took over. if you judge him damaged goods, thats one thing. if you judge him healthy, green's offensve game is unique and uncomparable to any defenseman currently in the league.
uhhhhh, Erik Karlsson??? Karlsson is only going to get better...

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07-13-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
uhhhhh, Erik Karlsson??? Karlsson is only going to get better...
Green is definetly better at his peak, atleast so far.

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07-13-2012, 08:59 AM
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As it stands , Kronwall is more valuable than Green, but if Green is healthy , then it's debatable.....he's worth way more to the Caps than damaged goods trade bait.

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07-13-2012, 09:16 AM
  #17
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Detroit is filled with offensive defensemen, but just lost their two best defensive defensemen (Lidstrom/Stuart). Why would they trade for another offensive specialist? Green is a great player, but not what the Red Wings need.

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07-13-2012, 09:22 AM
  #18
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The value is fine, if not slightly in Detroit's favor, given that Green needs to rebound after a down year.

Yet the Caps let Wideman go because they expect Green to anchor their puck movement and PP QB roles. Carlson's ability to take over that role is unclear. He might well do that eventually, but it's still early. He has yet to show a significant ability to produce points.

I can't see the team letting both Wideman and Green go this summer. They are banking on Green returning to form. Whether he is capable is another matter.

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07-13-2012, 10:59 AM
  #19
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Green is definetly better at his peak, atleast so far.
Umm, Washington was a far better offensive team during Green's career year than Ottawa was this year.

Not that I'm a fan of Karlsson, Weber was robbed.

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07-13-2012, 11:13 AM
  #20
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I would rather have a healthy Green than Kronwall on my team. The issue is that H word.

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07-13-2012, 11:20 AM
  #21
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I would rather have a healthy Green than Kronwall on my team. The issue is that H word.
The issue here is what role they fill. We already have Smith to do the same job Green does.

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07-13-2012, 02:16 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by dbridge92 View Post
A healthy Green for Kronwall might be somewhat even, but I have my doubts Green will ever be fully healthy again. He averaged 1.04 points per game from 2008-2010, but .38 over the last 2 seasons. All the games he's missed aside, he hasn't been himself even when in the line-up. The risk is just way too high for Detroit. The Wings blue line is clearly depleted right now, but trading their best defenseman for a risky offensive d-man isn't the route to improve it.
While I certainly agree Green's healthy deteriorated his value, a proven healthy Green is definitely worth more than Kronwall. I'm a big Kronwall fan and would absolutely love him in DC, but he's not a top 10 defenseman in this league. A healthy Green is certainly a top 10 defenseman and Norris contender.

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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
One had as many points as the other last season playing nearly 20 less games while only averaging 15 minutes a night.

Also, if Smith is as mediocre defensively as Green is, I wouldn't put him up for the Norris either.
And Green was injured for most of the season. He was still working his way back into game shape after he returned from injury. The only time Mike Green was healthy was the first seven games of the season. During that span, the Caps went 7-0 and Mike Green was a point per game.

And glad to see you're still caught up in the Green circa 2008 hype. His defensive play hasn't been an issue for a while now.

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uhhhhh, Erik Karlsson??? Karlsson is only going to get better...
That's what they said about Mike Green too.

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Old
07-13-2012, 02:28 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
And Green was injured for most of the season. He was still working his way back into game shape after he returned from injury. The only time Mike Green was healthy was the first seven games of the season. During that span, the Caps went 7-0 and Mike Green was a point per game.

And glad to see you're still caught up in the Green circa 2008 hype. His defensive play hasn't been an issue for a while now.
Umm, regardless of him playing injured, having the same amount of points while TRIPLING minutes played isn't even comparable. Smith was doing that on third line minutes.

Glad to see that taking your takeaway count and doubling it with your giveaway count "isn't an issue".

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07-14-2012, 05:53 PM
  #24
Mystlyfe
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Umm, regardless of him playing injured, having the same amount of points while TRIPLING minutes played isn't even comparable. Smith was doing that on third line minutes.

Glad to see that taking your takeaway count and doubling it with your giveaway count "isn't an issue".
Completely dismissing the fact that Mike Green was playing injured shows a complete lack of understanding of competitive athletics.

And trusting the "real time stats" to have any kind of accuracy, much less show any type of bearing of actual defensive play is completely laughable.

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07-14-2012, 06:16 PM
  #25
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If Green starts putting up points again like he did a few years ago, I would be hesitant.. In no way am I knocking Kronwall, I love the dude. But I don't think Green's abilities offensively can be easily replaced, especially within the organization. (Orlov maybe, Carlson seems to be more of a two way player than green; but maybe thats a result of coaches and systems)

Quote:
Umm, regardless of him playing injured, having the same amount of points while TRIPLING minutes played isn't even comparable. Smith was doing that on third line minutes.
... Smith played14GP in the NHL. Apparently he wasn't good enough to get a roster spot, but he's better than a guy who put up more goals and points during 2008-2009 (only 68GP to boot) than any redwing player in 2011-2012?


Last edited by n3ss: 07-14-2012 at 06:25 PM.
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