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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: This is the last one, Really!

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08-06-2012, 11:29 AM
  #501
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
Not only is your $22MM wrong ticket prices from round one to round two did not double! Don`t know what CF or SCF is but I can`t begin to imagine there are numbers like that? Finally, under your scenario ($22MM profit) so it cost them nothing to play and host those games? It cost them nothing to travel etc. etc. Best case they make 50% margin, under your scenario revenues would need to be $44MM, completely wrong! Go back and do your homework.
I think the profit margins for playoff games are easily beyond 50% since the players don't get paid after the regular reason. However, I agree that there was no $22M profit, much less $22M in additional revenue based upon 9 home playoff games. I actually think playoff gate revenue was probably closer to $12M, and maybe they made another $3-$4M in concessions, merch, etc. I would not be surprised if as much as $10M went to the bottom line, but nothing close to $22M. Still, $10M to the black is not something to sneeze at. Now, if the Coyotes could manage to lose only $10M during the regular season, there would be cause for some hope that the team could eventually turn around its finances.

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08-06-2012, 12:00 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by goyotes View Post
I think the profit margins for playoff games are easily beyond 50% since the players don't get paid after the regular reason. However, I agree that there was no $22M profit, much less $22M in additional revenue based upon 9 home playoff games. I actually think playoff gate revenue was probably closer to $12M, and maybe they made another $3-$4M in concessions, merch, etc. I would not be surprised if as much as $10M went to the bottom line, but nothing close to $22M. Still, $10M to the black is not something to sneeze at. Now, if the Coyotes could manage to lose only $10M during the regular season, there would be cause for some hope that the team could eventually turn around its finances.
Your numbers are far closer to the truth, thanks for the help!

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08-06-2012, 12:08 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Mork View Post
If you are right that would be a real shame because Phoenix/Glendale surely does look like a golden opportunity for the NHL.

Somehow I think the lack of ownership has more to do with the league than the fans. Nobody likes being gouged.

If the NHL would charge a fair price for a franchise in that market, I don't think they would have too much trouble finding a modern-day NHL version of Jerry Colangelo, willing to build a business for the long term. However, as long as they want to collect every thin dime they've overpaid for their own franchise the field is pretty thin (maybe even non-existent) because no investor wants to overpay for an asset.

I really don't think the people of Phoenix owe anyone an explanation, much less an apology, for how they spend their hard-earned money. It's up to someone else to earn their business, and obviously the NHL hasn't done that.
One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Of course the asking price is too high, but what does that have to do with years and years of poor fan support?

There is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for not supporting the greatest game on earth.

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08-06-2012, 12:21 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/17...ndale-04212012

I was thinking about that yesterday; this quote has always stuck in my mind and that is why I am with you.
I was discussing this with a friend last week and agree. If part of the NHL's goal with this CBA is to provide help to financially struggling teams, then it just stands to reason.

One thing the players and Fehr need to realize is that without these struggling teams... many of them DON'T PLAY. I know the retort from north of the border will be to send 'em north, but I don't believe they could even possibly replace even 1/3 of the struggling markets and the future potential is not there either.

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08-06-2012, 12:27 PM
  #505
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Canada has a possibility of 2 more markets in Quebec City and Hamilton area. What most don't consider is that Canadian dollars is very high compared to history. If the dollar was to fall to the 80 cent mark once again it would cause trouble for many Canadian teams including Winnipeg.

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08-06-2012, 01:15 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by Jamieh View Post
Canada has a possibility of 2 more markets in Quebec City and Hamilton area. What most don't consider is that Canadian dollars is very high compared to history. If the dollar was to fall to the 80 cent mark once again it would cause trouble for many Canadian teams including Winnipeg.
I've been saying this since Hamilton and JB were in the picture. Canada's economy is doing really well right now and when the economy slows down again (economies are ebb and flow so it will slow down) some of those teams might be in trouble financially.

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08-06-2012, 01:25 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Mork View Post
If you are right that would be a real shame because Phoenix/Glendale surely does look like a golden opportunity for the NHL.

Somehow I think the lack of ownership has more to do with the league than the fans. Nobody likes being gouged.

If the NHL would charge a fair price for a franchise in that market, I don't think they would have too much trouble finding a modern-day NHL version of Jerry Colangelo, willing to build a business for the long term. However, as long as they want to collect every thin dime they've overpaid for their own franchise the field is pretty thin (maybe even non-existent) because no investor wants to overpay for an asset.

Quote:
I really don't think the people of Phoenix owe anyone an explanation, much less an apology, for how they spend their hard-earned money. It's up to someone else to earn their business, and obviously the NHL hasn't done that.
Except the problem is that there are lots of people in AZ who say they don't want to see the Coyotes get relocated but most are not willing to do anything with their money to try and help keep the team here or put into action ways to help the team out from a money standpoint without putting themselves at an economic disadvantage. It is stupid to see others who ***** about how bad the attendence is but are not willing to go themselves.

It is one thing to not give a hardtime to those who don't care the Coyotes at all, but it is another to not give a hardtime to say they care but their actions say differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kihekah19 View Post
I was discussing this with a friend last week and agree. If part of the NHL's goal with this CBA is to provide help to financially struggling teams, then it just stands to reason.

One thing the players and Fehr need to realize is that without these struggling teams... many of them DON'T PLAY. I know the retort from north of the border will be to send 'em north, but I don't believe they could even possibly replace even 1/3 of the struggling markets and the future potential is not there either.
I would be saddened if anyone who is high on the NHL Kool-Aid to still be high on it if it turned out to be a big key reason why the NHL never bothered to sell the team sooner is becuase they are waiting for a new CBA to be completed. That would be sad considering both the NHL and the NHLPA both had plenty of time to start the talks over a new CBA instead of waiting until after the end of last season.


Last edited by Colt45Blast: 08-06-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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08-06-2012, 03:39 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Jamieh View Post
Canada has a possibility of 2 more markets in Quebec City and Hamilton area. What most don't consider is that Canadian dollars is very high compared to history. If the dollar was to fall to the 80 cent mark once again it would cause trouble for many Canadian teams including Winnipeg.
Winnipeg is co-owned by the 16th richest person in the world.He could buy the entire nhl 10x over.He is not going to worry if he loses a few million occasionally.Don`t lose sleep worrying about Winnipeg

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08-06-2012, 04:25 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by pondnorth View Post
Winnipeg is co-owned by the 16th richest person in the world.He could buy the entire nhl 10x over.He is not going to worry if he loses a few million occasionally.Don`t lose sleep worrying about Winnipeg
Then why does Winnipeg lose sleep worrying about Phoenix?

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08-06-2012, 04:42 PM
  #510
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When was the last time Jamison said anything about anything? During the COG AMF vote?

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08-06-2012, 04:55 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
When was the last time Jamison said anything about anything? During the COG AMF vote?
Talk is cheap no matter what.

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08-06-2012, 05:04 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
Talk is cheap no matter what.
Not even bothering to blow sunshine up our assess is pretty alarming. I expect to be shined on. The fact that nobody is even taking the time to bull **** us is pretty telling.

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08-06-2012, 05:10 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Not even bothering to blow sunshine up our assess is pretty alarming. I expect to be shined on. The fact that nobody is even taking the time to bull **** us is pretty telling.
Yea but this is not the 1st time we have had this long period of silence and only to be led by more sunshine up our *****. I need a drink!!!


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08-06-2012, 05:11 PM
  #514
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Last I heard is GJ is just short money. I don't recall where I read it but if its just a problem with needing 1-2 more investors then I can see why its taking a bit longer and there is no one talking. Its been 5 years that we have been waiting for an owner, the only thing scaring me about not having one yet is the fact that Doan isn't resigned. We could very well lose Doan, and if that happens that sucks, but I would rather see him leave to try and make a good decision for his family and himself than lose this franchise. If it takes another 6 months before we have an owner than so be it, Ill continue to be patient.

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08-06-2012, 05:28 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by YotesFan47 View Post
Last I heard is GJ is just short money. I don't recall where I read it but if its just a problem with needing 1-2 more investors then I can see why its taking a bit longer and there is no one talking. Its been 5 years that we have been waiting for an owner, the only thing scaring me about not having one yet is the fact that Doan isn't resigned. We could very well lose Doan, and if that happens that sucks, but I would rather see him leave to try and make a good decision for his family and himself than lose this franchise. If it takes another 6 months before we have an owner than so be it, Ill continue to be patient.
5 years? 3 years.

Also, in 6 months, there will be a whole new group of politicans that will kill the lease.

Don't believe everything you read.

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08-06-2012, 05:35 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
5 years? 3 years.

Also, in 6 months, there will be a whole new group of politicans that will kill the lease.

Don't believe everything you read.
Sorry, must just seem longer. Lets hope there wont be a group that will kill it. I didn't say I believed it, just stated that its what I had heard. If it really is just a matter of getting a little bit more money then lets hope they can do it swiftly before we get new politicians.

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08-06-2012, 05:39 PM
  #517
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If only it were that simple my friend. There is alot of lying going around and no one right now in this mess is willing to tell the whole truth.

I wonder if Shane Doan knows more about what is going on than others outside the talks but has been banned from talking about it? If so, I wish he can find away to get someone to release the details on twitter without ratting him out.

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08-06-2012, 05:54 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Not even bothering to blow sunshine up our assess is pretty alarming. I expect to be shined on. The fact that nobody is even taking the time to bull **** us is pretty telling.
Maybe the NHL just got sick of getting chewed out by the media everytime JR, IEH, and MH all crashed and burned and told GJ that no sunshine will be reaching any rectums until the deal is done.

The majority of me really believes what you are saying, but I'll keep a little shred of hope in the back of my mind.

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08-06-2012, 06:30 PM
  #519
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I thought we were in the final week of no ownership over 2 weeks ago!
So, why would Jamison leave the Sharks to tease us? Why would the league ok him if he didn't have the capital? Why is it so hot outside? Why does my glass seem to be getting more empty every time I type? Why am I asking all these rhetorical questions when no one knows why?

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08-06-2012, 06:38 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
I would be saddened if anyone who is high on the NHL Kool-Aid to still be high on it if it turned out to be a big key reason why the NHL never bothered to sell the team sooner is becuase they are waiting for a new CBA to be completed. That would be sad considering both the NHL and the NHLPA both had plenty of time to start the talks over a new CBA instead of waiting until after the end of last season.

NHL Kool-Aid, Coyote Kool-Aid, Jonestown Kool-Aid... whatever Kool-Aid anyone is drinking, let's not fool ourselves - The NHL would have sold this franchise at it's first opportunity.

Apparently though, this seems to be a difficult situation.

I don't think they've been waiting for anything, but currently the CBA is being discussed and we're being lead to believe this is part of the agenda. It's possible that GJ (having known the agenda) has been the only one waiting.

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08-06-2012, 07:31 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
If only it were that simple my friend. There is alot of lying going around and no one right now in this mess is willing to tell the whole truth.

I wonder if Shane Doan knows more about what is going on than others outside the talks but has been banned from talking about it? If so, I wish he can find away to get someone to release the details on twitter without ratting him out.
I would think he has to know something that gives him hope that this will work out... Either that or he has the patience of a saint. lol..

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08-06-2012, 07:45 PM
  #522
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Except the problem is that there are lots of people in AZ who say they don't want to see the Coyotes get relocated but most are not willing to do anything with their money to try and help keep the team here or put into action ways to help the team out from a money standpoint without putting themselves at an economic disadvantage. It is stupid to see others who ***** about how bad the attendence is but are not willing to go themselves.
[apologies to the mod staff.... but this has to be said]

Excuse me.....

But some of us used to attend 8-10 games per season until their job was yanked out from under them, leaving them out of work for nearly a year, then spending the next three working part time. Finally getting back to full time at 65% the rate from their original pay.

Meanwhile their home goes to short sale, a process that takes anywhere from a few months to a few years because their loan's being serviced by a government bailouted bank with no clue.

Want me to go on???????...... or will you finally get off the high horse and stop berating people who are still fighting to keep their heads above water????

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08-06-2012, 08:27 PM
  #523
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I would think he has to know something that gives him hope that this will work out... Either that or he has the patience of a saint. lol..
Training camps aren't scheduled to start until Sept. 12th.

That's still a good 5 weeks away.

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08-06-2012, 08:33 PM
  #524
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[apologies to the mod staff.... but this has to be said]

Excuse me.....


Want me to go on???????...... or will you finally get off the high horse and stop berating people who are still fighting to keep their heads above water????
1st off. Watch that tone with me and talk to me like a normal human being, especially since I have never gave you hard time in the past.

2nd of all. I am aware of a grea area you are pointing as I have said before something that has been ignored many times, "Without putting themselves at an economic disadvantage". However, I am among the many in the Coyotes fan base who don't take kindly to bandwagon and casual fans and rightfully so and I do not appoligize for that.

If you wish to say something to me about this topic then take it private.

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08-06-2012, 09:01 PM
  #525
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I would think he has to know something that gives him hope that this will work out... Either that or he has the patience of a saint. lol..
Either that or he has been asked to wait out as long as possible before signing with someone since many in the hockey world will see Doan signing with another team as a sign that the team is gone in their minds.

The entire truth in all of this mess will come out but it doesn't seem like that will happen in the near future either.


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