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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: This is the last one, Really!

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Old
08-13-2012, 05:26 PM
  #651
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Originally Posted by manisback121 View Post
Is it still valid when a new counsel takes office?
You got it!

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08-13-2012, 05:34 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by manisback121 View Post
Is it still valid when a new counsel takes office?
A new mayor and new council members wouldn't have actual power until 7pm on December 11, 2012:

http://www.glendaleaz.com/codebook/d...ityCharter.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/meetings/

And of course they couldn't undo previous council actions....


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08-13-2012, 06:23 PM
  #653
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A new mayor and new council members wouldn't have actual power until 7pm on December 11, 2012:

http://www.glendaleaz.com/codebook/d...ityCharter.pdf
http://www.glendaleaz.com/meetings/

And of course they couldn't undo previous council actions....
Wasn't the previous vote to give the city manager authority to make the deal? If the deal isn't made by the time the new council has control then I would imagine that they could revoke that authority, no?

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08-13-2012, 07:02 PM
  #654
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Wasn't the previous vote to give the city manager authority to make the deal? If the deal isn't made by the time the new council has control then I would imagine that they could revoke that authority, no?
Once its signed its signed. If it has not been signed by december it would be over with anyways.

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08-14-2012, 09:59 AM
  #655
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I think it is time to acknowledge the obvious. No deal is going to be made in the face of the impending player lockout. The sides are too far apart at this late date and have little common ground on which to build an agreement that satisfies both sides. GJ and his theoretical investors have likely left any deal on the table until the negotiations gain some visibility. His silence is as a good an indicator as anything, to think differently is wishful thinking at the very best. In the meantime the owners will continue to fund the ongoing operation s of the Coyotes and absorb additional expenses raising the cost basis of ownership and further distancing their asking price from the supposed GJ offer!


In the end, the NHL, COG and GJ will all be left without confirmation, leaving GB with no other option but to move the team. He knows full well the economic model that encompasses this team is foolish and untenable, he also knows that as time passes his new market options will become more viable. The obvious conclusion is that time, silence and the lockout are all precursors to the team ultimately being relocated for play next fall, this season will not be played.

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08-14-2012, 10:34 AM
  #656
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I think it is time to acknowledge the obvious. No deal is going to be made in the face of the impending player lockout. The sides are too far apart at this late date and have little common ground on which to build an agreement that satisfies both sides. GJ and his theoretical investors have likely left any deal on the table until the negotiations gain some visibility. His silence is as a good an indicator as anything, to think differently is wishful thinking at the very best. In the meantime the owners will continue to fund the ongoing operation s of the Coyotes and absorb additional expenses raising the cost basis of ownership and further distancing their asking price from the supposed GJ offer!


In the end, the NHL, COG and GJ will all be left without confirmation, leaving GB with no other option but to move the team. He knows full well the economic model that encompasses this team is foolish and untenable, he also knows that as time passes his new market options will become more viable. The obvious conclusion is that time, silence and the lockout are all precursors to the team ultimately being relocated for play next fall, this season will not be played.
I don't think this is the case, a deal being left on the table, and here is why: When bringing together an investment group, it is very easy to loose investors for a variety of reasons such as other business that needs cash, other opportunities, change of heart, change in control, all the issues that likely contributed to JIG not closing months ago, "investor fall out". Once he has the group together and committed, as has been reported, he needs to close it asap. If he has the group together now, there is still NHL approval/background checks on all investors, investors liquidating assets to come up with the cash(as it is always working), many attorneys from different investors agreeing on documentation, etc, all of the things that take several weeks (2-6 week guess), to close the deal.

If it were one company writing the check, it would be easier to sit back and play hard ball with the NHL, wait for the CBA to resolve, unlike a multiple investor group, such as this one. If you think about it, the coyotes just went to the WCF, they have some very good young players, an excellent defense and goal tending, great coach and GM, the future looks bright. Add that to a new CBA that is going to roll back salaries and/or increase revenue sharing, all designed to help small market teams financially. If there was ever a time to buy the coyotes and have the franchise succeed, with all the above and the COG subsidy, this is it.

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08-14-2012, 10:45 AM
  #657
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I don't think this is the case, a deal being left on the table, and here is why: When bringing together an investment group, it is very easy to loose investors for a variety of reasons such as other business that needs cash, other opportunities, change of heart, change in control, all the issues that likely contributed to JIG not closing months ago, "investor fall out". Once he has the group together and committed, as has been reported, he needs to close it asap. If he has the group together now, there is still NHL approval/background checks on all investors, investors liquidating assets to come up with the cash(as it is always working), many attorneys from different investors agreeing on documentation, etc, all of the things that take several weeks (2-6 week guess), to close the deal.

If it were one company writing the check, it would be easier to sit back and play hard ball with the NHL, wait for the CBA to resolve, unlike a multiple investor group, such as this one. If you think about it, the coyotes just went to the WCF, they have some very good young players, an excellent defense and goal tending, great coach and GM, the future looks bright. Add that to a new CBA that is going to roll back salaries and/or increase revenue sharing, all designed to help small market teams financially. If there was ever a time to buy the coyotes and have the franchise succeed, with all the above and the COG subsidy, this is it.
This is where i differ from you, it is my belief that he has never had full control of his investor group . To your point, if it were one mega money guy who could decide to write the check tomorrow, that is one thing, but in this case, with league dynamics changing daily, and the Coyote economic model in shambles he has been unable to get his investors to commit. These investors see the pitfalls in making such a deal, 20 year commitment, negative cash flow for 16 years, high purchase price, poor arena location and expensive lease all combined make the $325MM subsidy look difficult to swallow. In the end they all want to know there is liquidity at some point. This deal gives them little if any visibility of an "out". The very best deals are made in the front end purchase price, this deal is expensive the first "no-no" when making a deal.

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08-14-2012, 11:03 AM
  #658
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This is where i differ from you, it is my belief that he has never had full control of his investor group . To your point, if it were one mega money guy who could decide to write the check tomorrow, that is one thing, but in this case, with league dynamics changing daily, and the Coyote economic model in shambles he has been unable to get his investors to commit. These investors see the pitfalls in making such a deal, 20 year commitment, negative cash flow for 16 years, high purchase price, poor arena location and expensive lease all combined make the $325MM subsidy look difficult to swallow. In the end they all want to know there is liquidity at some point. This deal gives them little if any visibility of an "out". The very best deals are made in the front end purchase price, this deal is expensive the first "no-no" when making a deal.
I agree he clearly does not have control of his investor group. You never really have control until you close. Because, until you close, there are many ways for investors to back out.

The points you bring up are all reasons for an investor to never commit to this deal in the first place, and they are all valid reasons. If you are correct, he has never had the investors. What I am saying is, if he has the investors agreeing to agree, he is past the hurdles you have mentioned and has a window to close, say 2-6 weeks, for all the things I mentioned to get ironed out. In that window, investors can back away for many reasons, including second thoughts for all the reasons you mentioned. Those are all deal points, so I am hopeful, but have no way to know, he is past all of that, meaning he has the investors at this point in time. ASAP close is best in spite of CBA (which should benefit coyotes), with all the moving parts on this deal for sure.

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08-14-2012, 01:27 PM
  #659
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I agree he clearly does not have control of his investor group. You never really have control until you close. Because, until you close, there are many ways for investors to back out.

The points you bring up are all reasons for an investor to never commit to this deal in the first place, and they are all valid reasons. If you are correct, he has never had the investors. What I am saying is, if he has the investors agreeing to agree, he is past the hurdles you have mentioned and has a window to close, say 2-6 weeks, for all the things I mentioned to get ironed out. In that window, investors can back away for many reasons, including second thoughts for all the reasons you mentioned. Those are all deal points, so I am hopeful, but have no way to know, he is past all of that, meaning he has the investors at this point in time. ASAP close is best in spite of CBA (which should benefit coyotes), with all the moving parts on this deal for sure.
The obstacles to a close , other than the CBA have been out of the way for quite some time, yet everyone still points to all of these other issues that are holding up his purchase. This excuse making about complexities etc etc. have been going on for months. If he has nothing more than afew lose strings to clear up why would he not be out publicly confident of a done deal. that way he would appeal to STH and corporate sponsors to put money down on next year. By delaying his purchase he puts his possible profit picture further into the future. He has no pricing power for the season should it ever be played. Without the ability to price his product higher, establish a marketing program he guarantees more loses for 2012-13. Loses for the coming year increase his basis by a like amount and make a liquidity event for his investors even more unlikely. GJ knows this, and still he is unable to close! I have also heard that he is having to deal with control issues amongst his investors, most notably MH who wants to put his own stamp on this franchise.

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08-14-2012, 09:40 PM
  #660
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The obstacles to a close , other than the CBA have been out of the way for quite some time, yet everyone still points to all of these other issues that are holding up his purchase. This excuse making about complexities etc etc. have been going on for months. If he has nothing more than afew lose strings to clear up why would he not be out publicly confident of a done deal. that way he would appeal to STH and corporate sponsors to put money down on next year. By delaying his purchase he puts his possible profit picture further into the future. He has no pricing power for the season should it ever be played. Without the ability to price his product higher, establish a marketing program he guarantees more loses for 2012-13. Loses for the coming year increase his basis by a like amount and make a liquidity event for his investors even more unlikely. GJ knows this, and still he is unable to close! I have also heard that he is having to deal with control issues amongst his investors, most notably MH who wants to put his own stamp on this franchise.
Lose is opposite of win, loose is opposite of tight, loses the game, financial losses.

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08-14-2012, 10:04 PM
  #661
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The obstacles to a close , other than the CBA have been out of the way for quite some time, yet everyone still points to all of these other issues that are holding up his purchase. This excuse making about complexities etc etc. have been going on for months. If he has nothing more than afew lose strings to clear up why would he not be out publicly confident of a done deal. that way he would appeal to STH and corporate sponsors to put money down on next year. By delaying his purchase he puts his possible profit picture further into the future. He has no pricing power for the season should it ever be played. Without the ability to price his product higher, establish a marketing program he guarantees more loses for 2012-13. Loses for the coming year increase his basis by a like amount and make a liquidity event for his investors even more unlikely. GJ knows this, and still he is unable to close! I have also heard that he is having to deal with control issues amongst his investors, most notably MH who wants to put his own stamp on this franchise.
A deal like this with multiple investors never has a few strings to tie up in order to close. Jamison knows that saying anything will draw more questions and criticism as to why it is not done yet. There is no point in saying anything or misleading anyone until it is done. I am sure his plan and that of the investors is a multiple year plan and not based on a mad scramble for business this month. Jamison knows how to price/market once he has control. I am not sure who MH is?

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08-14-2012, 10:13 PM
  #662
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I am not sure who MH is?
Matthew Hulsizer? The previous prospective owner from last year. Hadn't heard any names of the investors, only Jamison.

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08-14-2012, 10:18 PM
  #663
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Matthew Hulsizer? The previous prospective owner from last year. Hadn't heard any names of the investors, only Jamison.
I have heard matty could be involved via 1060am but nothing solid

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08-15-2012, 10:07 AM
  #664
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Matthew Hulsizer? The previous prospective owner from last year. Hadn't heard any names of the investors, only Jamison.
From what i have heard Hulsizer is one of the investors, he may also be the one who in exchange for his cash is asking for a certain amount of control within the organization. If that is the case, GJ is having to balance the money for the loss of some control. Multiple investors and/or multiple ownership with a division of control is the least desirable outcome. GJ knows the pitfalls of not having one voice, remember these guys are all ego maniacs who want things run their way!

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08-15-2012, 10:15 AM
  #665
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From what i have heard Hulsizer is one of the investors, he may also be the one who in exchange for his cash is asking for a certain amount of control within the organization. If that is the case, GJ is having to balance the money for the loss of some control. Multiple investors and/or multiple ownership with a division of control is the least desirable outcome. GJ knows the pitfalls of not having one voice, remember these guys are all ego maniacs who want things run their way!
Link?

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08-15-2012, 11:21 AM
  #666
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From what i have heard Hulsizer is one of the investors, he may also be the one who in exchange for his cash is asking for a certain amount of control within the organization. If that is the case, GJ is having to balance the money for the loss of some control. Multiple investors and/or multiple ownership with a division of control is the least desirable outcome. GJ knows the pitfalls of not having one voice, remember these guys are all ego maniacs who want things run their way!
I doubt Mh is involved simply because he is a control guy, not a passive investor. Even with mechanisms (hammers) in place to gain control, the deal is usually a mess by the time that happens, so control guys like MH only invest in their own deals. I know MH can have clauses that he must approve certain things, but that really does nor work well for the manager (JIG) or a control guy (MH).

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08-15-2012, 11:31 AM
  #667
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I doubt Mh is involved simply because he is a control guy, not a passive investor. Even with mechanisms (hammers) in place to gain control, the deal is usually a mess by the time that happens, so control guys like MH only invest in their own deals. I know MH can have clauses that he must approve certain things, but that really does nor work well for the manager (JIG) or a control guy (MH).

If the deal gets done, hulsizer will likely be one of the LP`s!

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08-15-2012, 12:38 PM
  #668
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If the deal gets done, hulsizer will likely be one of the LP`s!
Do you claim to have a source for this, or is this just your speculation?

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08-15-2012, 12:45 PM
  #669
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If the deal gets done, hulsizer will likely be one of the LP`s!
It seems unlikely to me, but you sound like you might know something, I hope it is more then 620 being the source....

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08-15-2012, 02:32 PM
  #670
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If the deal gets done, hulsizer will likely be one of the LP`s!
... its possible, not entirely improbable, though it would surprise me a bit. He's a driver, not a passenger. If he's sitting in the front with one hand on the wheel as you speculate not good. Its also not improbable nor impossible that the IEH boys are also along for the ride, having a party in the Rumble Seat. We just dont know. Really, until Jamison reveals all, its just an amusing flight of fancy. If the Happy Hour Gang are involved, Id have no problem with it whatsoever. Cant beat their off the wall enthusiam. If channelled properly, most definitely could be used to ones advantage.

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08-15-2012, 03:24 PM
  #671
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Killion, is the "Moderator" tag new or just somthing I hadn't noticed before?

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08-15-2012, 03:34 PM
  #672
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Killion, is the "Moderator" tag new or just somthing I hadn't noticed before?
... New Sheriff in Town. Anyone, particularly on the BOH Phoenix Mega Thread not dropping their off-target off-topic weapons, showing up loaded & unloading all over my Town & the denizens of Arizona will wish they were in fact back in Tombstone facing the Earp Brothers & Doc Holliday instead of yours truly. So c'mon back outside, perfectly safe to leave your homes & saloons, pools & liberries.

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08-15-2012, 03:45 PM
  #673
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08-15-2012, 06:32 PM
  #674
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... its possible, not entirely improbable, though it would surprise me a bit. He's a driver, not a passenger. If he's sitting in the front with one hand on the wheel as you speculate not good. Its also not improbable nor impossible that the IEH boys are also along for the ride, having a party in the Rumble Seat. We just dont know. Really, until Jamison reveals all, its just an amusing flight of fancy. If the Happy Hour Gang are involved, Id have no problem with it whatsoever. Cant beat their off the wall enthusiam. If channelled properly, most definitely could be used to ones advantage.
K, i know MH is involved and IEH may as well be but I cannot confirm that. I am told that the issue MH is having with GJ is that MH`s consultant is attempting to put himself into the GM spot. The consultant is not currently in hockey at this time but was a GM a few years back, sorry, but i cannot say who it is! But I am sure if you go back a few years you can figure it out!


Last edited by mesamonster: 08-15-2012 at 06:33 PM. Reason: need to add additional info!
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08-15-2012, 07:05 PM
  #675
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K, i know MH is involved and IEH may as well be but I cannot confirm that. I am told that the issue MH is having with GJ is that MH`s consultant is attempting to put himself into the GM spot. The consultant is not currently in hockey at this time but was a GM a few years back, sorry, but i cannot say who it is! But I am sure if you go back a few years you can figure it out!
They would be crazy to replace GMDM. Has anyone done a better job with less then GMDM? It would be as bad to replace Tip too. Obviously the hockey side is working, but would have to report to the new group, but why fix what is not broken. Changing GM's could be a disaster....

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