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Ownership Cluster**** Thread: This is the last one, Really!

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Old
08-16-2012, 06:44 PM
  #701
awfulwaffle
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Only 11 clubs turned a profit, yet they have been making more and more money? Obviously the structure isn't working. They really do need to lower the cap floor. How far are the Coyotes under it right now?

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08-16-2012, 06:48 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by naurutger View Post
From that point I agree but I know making a full payment and not having the full 43+ dates at the arena will fuel the haters and hurt in the long run.

To add, I wonder if that language is already in the exhibits that have not been released?
It's really simple the agreements should (and may - I don't know) stipulate a minimum number of events to be held.

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08-16-2012, 06:56 PM
  #703
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Older article about the 2009 NFL season but it proves a point that under their salary cap only two teams lost money

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/30/...ions_Rank.html

NFL is king but their model works and is praised.

The NBA system also created a lot of problems with losing money and they have a luxury tax.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=6722740

I think a hard cap is important but it should go up at a more moderate rate in my opinion. Something the players will obviously disagree with

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08-16-2012, 07:18 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
Only 11 clubs turned a profit, yet they have been making more and more money? Obviously the structure isn't working. They really do need to lower the cap floor. How far are the Coyotes under it right now?
technically, there is no cap floor during the off season and the CBA will expire before the season starts. The floor would have been ~ $54 Mil, Maloney was told the budget is set at ~ $56 Mil (please don't ask for a link, he was quoted that his budget would increase from last season and is me merely speculating what it is).
According to capgeek the Coyotes sit at $44,836,583 with 22 players (8 D'men). Look for them to send Stone back to the 'A' to start the season and bring in 2 forwards (hopefully Doan is one of them and the other may not be acquired until after the season starts).

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08-17-2012, 09:08 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by awfulwaffle View Post
Only 11 clubs turned a profit, yet they have been making more and more money? Obviously the structure isn't working. They really do need to lower the cap floor. How far are the Coyotes under it right now?
Just get rid of the cap floor... then look for Canadian teams to take advantage of the blind loyalty of the populace up there by scaling back player expenses and taking profits. There's a "what the market will bear" balance to be had north of the border by any owners with the balls.

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08-18-2012, 02:04 AM
  #706
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Just get rid of the cap floor... then look for Canadian teams to take advantage of the blind loyalty of the populace up there by scaling back player expenses and taking profits. There's a "what the market will bear" balance to be had north of the border by any owners with the balls.
Haha. For a minute. Has every single person on this website forgotten a time when the almighty Canadian franchises were absolutely ****ing DROWNING? It really was not a long time ago.

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08-18-2012, 11:19 PM
  #707
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Haha. For a minute. Has every single person on this website forgotten a time when the almighty Canadian franchises were absolutely ****ing DROWNING? It really was not a long time ago.
Yeah, but a lot of that was down to a much weaker Canadian currency and the need for most salaries / expenses to be paid in US $.

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08-18-2012, 11:22 PM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... New Sheriff in Town. Anyone, particularly on the BOH Phoenix Mega Thread not dropping their off-target off-topic weapons, showing up loaded & unloading all over my Town & the denizens of Arizona will wish they were in fact back in Tombstone facing the Earp Brothers & Doc Holliday instead of yours truly. So c'mon back outside, perfectly safe to leave your homes & saloons, pools & liberries.
Congrats, brotha.

I have enjoyed your posts for a while and look forward to your contributions as a PHX Mod.

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08-18-2012, 11:51 PM
  #709
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Yeah, but a lot of that was down to a much weaker Canadian currency and the need for most salaries / expenses to be paid in US $.
Everybody has an excuse; weak currency, recession, housing bubble. Problem is, people always think that the way it is today is the way it will always be. Kinda why pro athletes go broke. They think those monster pay checks will never stop.

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08-19-2012, 12:35 AM
  #710
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Everybody has an excuse; weak currency, recession, housing bubble. Problem is, people always think that the way it is today is the way it will always be.

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08-19-2012, 11:22 AM
  #711
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Still no sale or an owner and we are just weeks away from another lockout at the rate things are going.

Coincidence?


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08-19-2012, 12:09 PM
  #712
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Still no sale or an owner and we are just weeks away from another lockout at the rate things are going.

Coincidence?

Absolutely not.

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08-19-2012, 04:12 PM
  #713
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Would need to don some serious tinfoil to come up with a conspiracy theory there.

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08-19-2012, 04:29 PM
  #714
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Would need to don some serious tinfoil to come up with a conspiracy theory there.
Not suggesting there will be a lock out because we are still ownerless, rather that a part of the reason we are still ownerless may be because of what looks like a very real possibility of a work stoppage.

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08-19-2012, 04:45 PM
  #715
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Who knows whether the CBA has affected the sale but just looking at it logically: Wouldn't it be foolish to close the deal now knowing there might not be a season? If GJ struggled to get he financing to buy the team and fund the operations, could he sustain a season or partial season with no hockey?

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08-19-2012, 05:42 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by RemoAZ View Post
Who knows whether the CBA has affected the sale but just looking at it logically: Wouldn't it be foolish to close the deal now knowing there might not be a season? If GJ struggled to get he financing to buy the team and fund the operations, could he sustain a season or partial season with no hockey?
Well, i guess a case could be made that it would be the best case scenario for Jamison, so long as he still receives the subsidy. Who knows, though? And that's the point. Uncertainty.

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08-19-2012, 05:55 PM
  #717
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I agree completely with the above two posts.

It's unclear whether GJ would receive the subsidy in the case of a lockout. With that in mind, if I were him I wouldn't want to try to close the sale before I either know for sure that I'd get it, or until the season started.

It was reported a while back that he had the investors lined up (though in the business world this can change on a day to day basis) and was waiting for the dust to settle on all the issues to be resolved. Things did resolve on the city end of things, but with a looming work stoppage he doesn't have cost certainty yet. I can't say I blame him for at the very least waiting for the potential work stoppage to get resolved or come close to it before making the final call, assuming he does have the money.

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08-19-2012, 06:33 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by Tricia McMillan View Post
I agree completely with the above two posts.

It's unclear whether GJ would receive the subsidy in the case of a lockout. With that in mind, if I were him I wouldn't want to try to close the sale before I either know for sure that I'd get it, or until the season started.

It was reported a while back that he had the investors lined up (though in the business world this can change on a day to day basis) and was waiting for the dust to settle on all the issues to be resolved. Things did resolve on the city end of things, but with a looming work stoppage he doesn't have cost certainty yet. I can't say I blame him for at the very least waiting for the potential work stoppage to get resolved or come close to it before making the final call, assuming he does have the money.
From the lease agreement with Glendale:

Quote:
8.1.15 To the extent Home Games are cancelled or a Hockey Season is shortened or cancelled, diligently use further commercially reasonable efforts to schedule and book such Events and other activities in order to utilize the Arena Facility as much as possible in accordance with this Agreement and the Scheduling Procedures.
A potential lockout had been incorporated into the agreement, so Jamison will still get the AMF regardless of what happens this season.

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08-19-2012, 09:20 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Tricia McMillan View Post

It was reported a while back that he had the investors lined up (though in the business world this can change on a day to day basis) and was waiting for the dust to settle on all the issues to be resolved.
Hope those investors weren't counting on cashing in their shares of facebook.

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08-19-2012, 11:18 PM
  #720
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Hope those investors weren't counting on cashing in their shares of facebook.
LOL, that stock is so worthless, I'm laughing at everyone that bought it when they went public.

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08-19-2012, 11:30 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by drgregg View Post
From the lease agreement with Glendale:



A potential lockout had been incorporated into the agreement, so Jamison will still get the AMF regardless of what happens this season.
Wow. And I mean wow. So JIG could potentially cash in on that fat subsidy WITHOUT hockey losses? That could be huge for JIG and devastating for COG..

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08-20-2012, 01:56 AM
  #722
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Wow. And I mean wow. So JIG could potentially cash in on that fat subsidy WITHOUT hockey losses? That could be huge for JIG and devastating for COG..
Everyone seems to be stuck on the arena management deal lately.

I reckon I should point out that their is no deal at this point because Jamison has not finalized the purchase of the Coyotes with the NHL. Until that happens all the bantering about how lucrative the AMF would be (or not) to Jamison is moot.

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08-20-2012, 09:34 AM
  #723
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Wow. And I mean wow. So JIG could potentially cash in on that fat subsidy WITHOUT hockey losses? That could be huge for JIG and devastating for COG..
Not really, he still has many fixed expenses whether or not hockey is played. The coaches alone cost money, the minor league teams still need to be funded , he has admin that need to be paid, cost of the arena functions and don`t forget if he bought the team for 170MM his investors need to be paid for their capital. Add it up, supposedly the arena costs 10-12MM a year to manage, a figure used to establish the AMF. BTW, I thought if the team were to leave there would be all of these unemployed people not to mention the closure of the restaurants and shops in Westgate? Well, a lockout in effect does the same thing as if the team were to leave, no jobs no services, yet the city and others talk about making do! Why not make do without the team, seems that would cost the city far less than the 17MM going to GJ!

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08-20-2012, 01:27 PM
  #724
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Sharks ownership claims they lost $15 million despite selling out every game

Quote:
“We’re a completely liquid organization and so far have continued to fund operations by choice,” Compton said. “This isn’t Phoenix.”
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ut-every-game/

Quote:
Could the team's playoff bid reduce Glendale's second $25 million pledge to the NHL?

NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly said this week the total amount Glendale owes could be reduced "to the extent additional playoff revenue continues to be generated," as the city's bill is tied to costs the league incurs to operate the arena and related businesses.
Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...#ixzz246zn9RzG

So we know about losses up to $25 million for the Coyotes last year, but it could be less. Obviously more than one NHL team is losing money but to say they are not "Phoenix"?

This is as of November 2011, but the Sharks have been losing money for a while. So are other teams:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/#p_1_s_a6_

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08-20-2012, 01:57 PM
  #725
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The fact that the Sharks can sell out every game, including 2 playoff games, but not turn a profit, shows something is wrong with the current setup.

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