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Zemgus Girgensons signs 3-year ELC with Sabres

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Old
07-15-2012, 09:20 PM
  #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Except for the fact ZG said all of these things in an interview with NHL.com making them not libel but quotes from the players own interview.
That has nothing to do with what vcv was posting about.

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07-15-2012, 09:33 PM
  #252
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Let's have some more fun with quotes..:
Quote:
“I keep my plans straight. I don’t have a Plan B because it would distract me from Plan A. The plan has always been to go to Vermont. That’s been Plan A. There’s never been a Plan B.”
http://slightlychilled.areavoices.com/?p=1144

So he only had a "Plan A" that involved him going to Vermont and there was no "Plan B"?
Well, since he can no longer go to Vermont (his "Plan A") and he had no "Plan B", he must be quitting hockey, right?
See, I can make inferences from his old quotes too.

Moral of the story: stop ruling out the WHL based on quotes from eight months ago.
Things change, like his "Plan A" that he had no "Plan B" for.

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07-15-2012, 10:13 PM
  #253
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So by ruling out 1 option you rule out every other option? O I see your point was incorrect so now you are just being a belligerent about it. Got it. Thanks.


Last edited by joshjull: 07-16-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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07-15-2012, 10:27 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
So by ruling out 1 option you rule out every other option? O I see your point was incorrect so now you are just being a belligerent about it. Got it. Thanks.
No, people are just completely ruling out the WHL by selectively using old quotes, which doesn't make sense.


Last edited by joshjull: 07-16-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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07-16-2012, 09:28 AM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
No, people are just completely ruling out the WHL by selectively using old quotes, which doesn't make sense.
People are ruling out the WHL because there is about a 1% chance that he goes there. It is clear that none of the parties involved have any intention of him going there. It's not even worth discussing.

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07-16-2012, 09:58 AM
  #256
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This thread is a clear sign that the slow sports season is upon the fans of Buffalo. I look forward to when we can discuss non speculative things like events that actually take place on the ice.

Two obvious camps here and neither KNOWS what is going to happen with ZG this year or in the future. I understand and share the concern about damaging his development. I am willing to trust that management knows what it is doing in his regard. They know better than me.

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07-16-2012, 10:21 AM
  #257
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Yes well I'm going to add him to my NHL 12 roster and he'll play for the Sabres this year. We'll see who is right, then.

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07-16-2012, 11:48 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregor View Post
Yes well I'm going to add him to my NHL 12 roster and he'll play for the Sabres this year. We'll see who is right, then.

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07-16-2012, 12:06 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingpig View Post
This thread is a clear sign that the slow sports season is upon the fans of Buffalo. I look forward to when we can discuss non speculative things like events that actually take place on the ice.

Two obvious camps here and neither KNOWS what is going to happen with ZG this year or in the future. I understand and share the concern about damaging his development. I am willing to trust that management knows what it is doing in his regard. They know better than me.
But apparently, they don't know better than most posters on here

Each player develops at a different pace.

My opinion, I think the kid can use some "seasoning" in the AHL but I think they should at least try him, just see what he needs to improve the most on, for example, maybe the speed of the game or the schedule.

Its kind of hard to say if a kid will have trouble in the league or not when he hasn't a played a single game.

Honestly, does it really affect anybody on here regardless where he plays? It seems some people on these boards take it way too personal when it comes to the this team.

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07-16-2012, 01:44 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
People are ruling out the WHL because there is about a 1% chance that he goes there.
And you're basing this on what?
Insider information, a real source, or what?
Baseless speculation?

Quote:
It is clear that none of the parties involved have any intention of him going there. It's not even worth discussing.
Again, based on what?

I will say it again: no destination was ever stated in the press conference and nothing close to official has been said, to my knowledge.
There has been talk of him looking like he might be ready for the AHL from Ruff, but no one has said that he is going there for sure.
It's all been speculation so far.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Thanks for providing yet another example.

Going pro is not necessarily playing in the AHL or NHL.
It's signing a professional contract and forfeiting your amateur status.
He went pro, just like every other kid that NHL teams have gotten to de-commit because college doesn't really serve any purpose for them.
All of those kids to went major junior after going pro.

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07-16-2012, 02:37 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
And you're basing this on what?
Insider information, a real source, or what?
Baseless speculation?

Again, based on what?

I will say it again: no destination was ever stated in the press conference and nothing close to official has been said, to my knowledge.
There has been talk of him looking like he might be ready for the AHL from Ruff, but no one has said that he is going there for sure.
It's all been speculation so far.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Thanks for providing yet another example.

Going pro is not necessarily playing in the AHL or NHL.
It's signing a professional contract and forfeiting your amateur status.
He went pro, just like every other kid that NHL teams have gotten to de-commit because college doesn't really serve any purpose for them.
All of those kids to went major junior after going pro.
Or the fact he said he didn't like how Kelowna treated him?

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07-16-2012, 02:51 PM
  #262
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Just because he hasn't said anything since being drafted/signed does not mean he is all of a sudden open to going to Kelowna.

He has previously stated he was unhappy with them. There's nothing to suggest he's had a 180 degree change of heart on that matter. It is far more reasonable to believe it still holds true than not.

You can be optimistic and hope it's the case...but from what we know...the chances of that happening is not very high. The best chance of getting Girgensons to play in the CHL is is Kelowna trades his rights.

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07-16-2012, 02:52 PM
  #263
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If there was any doubt in the mind of Lindy and Darcy that he wasn't ready for at least the AHL, they would have just let him go to Vermont. Common sense tells you junior hockey isn't part of the plan. It would take an absolute emergency for this to happen, and with this kid, it's not going to happen.

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07-16-2012, 02:59 PM
  #264
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Well since being drafted he said several times he was going to Vermont. He was very loyal to them. The only thing that would have prevented him from going there was turning pro. He obviously impressed at camp, and was told he was ready for the AHL or possibly the NHL.

He's not spurning Vermont to make a lateral move to Kelowna or any other WHL team.

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07-16-2012, 03:07 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
Well since being drafted he said several times he was going to Vermont. He was very loyal to them. The only thing that would have prevented him from going there was turning pro. He obviously impressed at camp, and was told he was ready for the AHL or possibly the NHL.

He's not spurning Vermont to make a lateral move to Kelowna or any other WHL team.
If it's such a lateral move, why do NHL teams get their top prospects to de-commit from better college programs than Vermont to play in the CHL?

Oh, right, because it's actually not a lateral move.

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07-16-2012, 03:27 PM
  #266
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At this point you're just deflecting from the real discussion and looking to argue whatever point you can. In this scenario, I'm considering them close enough that they're equals.

It doesn't matter, though, I think pretty much everyone understands he signed to play in the AHL or NHL.

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07-16-2012, 04:29 PM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
If it's such a lateral move, why do NHL teams get their top prospects to de-commit from better college programs than Vermont to play in the CHL?

Oh, right, because it's actually not a lateral move.
Under the table cash, Mr. Dumba :V

/Mich

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07-16-2012, 05:48 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by sabrefan27 View Post
At this point you're just deflecting from the real discussion and looking to argue whatever point you can.
No, I don't think I'm deflecting things.
I'm saying that people are incorrectly assuming that he will not go to the WHL based on an article in which he made other statements, some of which are now false.

Based on what we've seen with every other prospect that has bailed on their college commitment early, I'd say that there's a chance that he plays junior and I personally believe that it's a very good one, regardless of what he's said in the past.
There's been kids in the past that have been said to be ready to play in the AHL too but they ended up going to junior because playing time and role are important.
None have ever made the jump that I know of.

Quote:
In this scenario, I'm considering them close enough that they're equals.
They're not equals though.

The WHL is seen by some (possibly the majority) to be the closest to the NHL in terms of style of play, including physicality, and produces star NHL players left and right.
The NCAA, especially conferences like Hockey East, also produce a high number of players, but the style of play is not as close to the pros as the WHL and they do not play as many games as the WHL does.

Quote:
It doesn't matter, though, I think pretty much everyone understands he signed to play in the AHL or NHL.
I don't think it's an understanding, more of just an assumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal System Ehrhoff View Post
Under the table cash, Mr. Dumba :V

/Mich
Sure you don't mean Trouba?
I don't think Dumba ever had a college commitment, but he did go to prep school once upon a time..
In the case of Trouba though, that report has been denied by both sides.

When these kids choose junior instead, it's because their organizations tell them that they have a chance to go pro sooner than if they went to college and they give them money by signing them to entry-level deals.
They get ~$100,000 if they go back to junior, at least $160,000 if they play in the AHL, and close to a million if they play in the NHL.
It's just a clear pattern with first rounders that aren't drafted as raw projects: teams don't think they have any business being in college and they want them in their organization making an impact sooner.
The best way to go about doing that is by signing them, bringing them along in juniors, and re-evaluating where they are on a year to year basis.

Gigantic players like Oleksiak and Tinordi were physically ready for the AHL too but neither played there at 18 and instead played junior.
J.T. Miller is a similar prospect to Girgensons and was said to likely be ready after one year at UND and that he could still be brought along nicely in a bottom six role if he jumped immediately to the AHL or NHL.
He played for the Plymouth Whalers of the OHL last year.
Tyler Biggs is another similar prospect and has left Miami after one season.
He has the option of playing in the AHL, NHL, or OHL and I wouldn't be surprised if he plays for Oshawa since a spot has opened up with the departure of Nicklas Jensen.

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07-16-2012, 07:28 PM
  #269
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Honestly, how can everyone be so certain that Girgs is going to play in the NHL/AHL next year? Why is everyone arguing against jfb so fervently here?

No one has any idea what the Sabres and Girgs are planning or discussing besides the Sabres and Girgs. That's pretty much the end of the discussion. You can't argue "well he said he would never play in Kelowna" out of one side of your mouth and completely disregard his verbal commitment to Vermont out of the other. Are we going to hold him to his word or aren't we? Why is he allowed to reverse his thoughts on one subject and not the other?

Reading the last few pages of the thread has been like ramming my head into a brick wall

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07-16-2012, 07:38 PM
  #270
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Yeah, it was a slip. And I don't doubt that under the table payments are made, but in this case the claims are indeed laughable.

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07-16-2012, 07:47 PM
  #271
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If 20 games into the amerks season he's got 2 goals and 1 assist playing 10 minutes a game then what?

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07-16-2012, 08:11 PM
  #272
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If 20 games into the amerks season he's got 2 goals and 1 assist playing 10 minutes a game then what?

See how the next 20 go?

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07-16-2012, 09:05 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
Honestly, how can everyone be so certain that Girgs is going to play in the NHL/AHL next year? Why is everyone arguing against jfb so fervently here?

No one has any idea what the Sabres and Girgs are planning or discussing besides the Sabres and Girgs. That's pretty much the end of the discussion. You can't argue "well he said he would never play in Kelowna" out of one side of your mouth and completely disregard his verbal commitment to Vermont out of the other. Are we going to hold him to his word or aren't we? Why is he allowed to reverse his thoughts on one subject and not the other?

Reading the last few pages of the thread has been like ramming my head into a brick wall
Thank you, this is exactly what I've been attempting to say but more concise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost Dog View Post
If 20 games into the amerks season he's got 2 goals and 1 assist playing 10 minutes a game then what?
They could send him to the WHL but if they were to do so, they couldn't get him back until his WHL team was done playing.

They could also send him to the ECHL I guess, but that's an awful idea.

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07-17-2012, 12:25 AM
  #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boots electric View Post
Honestly, how can everyone be so certain that Girgs is going to play in the NHL/AHL next year? Why is everyone arguing against jfb so fervently here?

No one has any idea what the Sabres and Girgs are planning or discussing besides the Sabres and Girgs. That's pretty much the end of the discussion. You can't argue "well he said he would never play in Kelowna" out of one side of your mouth and completely disregard his verbal commitment to Vermont out of the other. Are we going to hold him to his word or aren't we? Why is he allowed to reverse his thoughts on one subject and not the other?

Reading the last few pages of the thread has been like ramming my head into a brick wall
I don't think its that big of a leap to think that he had tiered preferences, with turning pro > NCAA > WHL. Signing the contract has closed the door to the NCAA, so his doing so would only make sense if management had intimated to him that they intended for him to play in the AHL.

Of course we have no way of knowing for sure. But that narrative seems to be the one that best explains what we know right now.

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07-17-2012, 12:48 AM
  #275
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No, it isn't an enormous leap. But it's far from the slam dunk it's being made out to be.

Girgs was impressive at the rookie camp, there's no doubt. But there's a standout at EVERY rookie camp. When is the last time the Sabres have pulled someone straight from summer hockey and thrown them in the AHL/NHL?

If you're going by past history, it isn't "that big of a leap" to suggest Girgs and Darcy sat down to discuss the future, talked over the WHL/Kelowna situation, and Darcy convinced Girgs the CHL would be the best for his development.

Everyone gushes over the kid's maturity, both physically and mentally. But you're telling me that if he had an NHL GM sitting down with him face-to-face and telling him the CHL would be best for him, he's going to just disregard the advice? That sounds like stubbornness to me, not maturity.

Again, no one is saying that him going to the AHL/NHL is NOT going to happen. All anyone is saying is that it is far from a foregone conclusion, and going off of something he stated several months ago--especially when he has already contradicted elements of these statements by going pro--is downright silly.

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