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Tyler Biggs Expectations

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Old
07-15-2012, 10:51 AM
  #101
Sundinisagod
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I think Biggs has the type of skillset that translates to the NHL game, his skillset prolly means more than not making somebody's top 75 list. He might not be ranked high on lists because he's not considered a high-upside prospect, but a safe bet to make it.

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07-15-2012, 11:33 AM
  #102
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As of right now, I think he's a third liner who will hit, drop the mits and put up a respectable amount of points. He has second line upside but I think it's a bit of stretch at this point. Biggs was drafted as a project, I think we all knew this.

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07-15-2012, 11:34 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
This is a horrible argument, you do realize that, right?

This is the same thing as if I said "this guy we just drafted in the 9th round won't amount to anything" and you came back with "oh yeah? Tomas Kaberle. Pavol Demitra. Steve Sullivan. Danny Markov. What do you think about that, huh?"

what an answer like that ignores, is that there are hundreds of players drafted in round 9 (back when there was a round 9) and only a very small handful of them became good NHL players. Stating exceptions as though they are a rule proves nothing.

Similarly, I could show you a whole bunch of college players who were offensive stars as freshmen or sophomores, who became star players (Paul Kariya, Dany Heatley, Marty St. Louis, Phil Kessel, Brian Gionta, Brendan Morrison, Jonathan Toews, Zach Parise, Paul Stastny, Tomas Vanek, Chris Kunitz, Mike Cammalleri, and on and on). I could also show you the names of a whole bunch of nobodies who had half a point per game in their first couple college seasons and never amounted to anything. In fact, I'm pretty sure I could show you, if I really wanted, that there is at least somewhat of a correlation between USA college offensive production and NHL upside. I'm sure someone has built a predictive model of it that works to some degree.

What you've proven is that Biggs' poor offensive numbers so far in College don't necessarily mean he is a bust already. Well NO **** SHERLOCK. A lot can happen in the next few years, and I'm just pointing out that it doesn't look very good for him so far. The statistical part of that argument was just one of four pieces of evidence I presented.
Do you even know I was arguing? I was saying its silly writing Biggs off at this point, and that his point totals last season really don't mean a whole lot.... I used current NHLers (and 1st round picks), to site some examples...

Different NCAA teams have different philosophies.... Miami wanted Biggs to be a more well-rounded player and played him on the 2nd and 3rd lines. They probably also didn't want to overwhelm the youngest player on the team as well...... He was given PK duties, and did well overall in a league where the average player is 2-3years older than him.... Who knows.. on other teams, he might have been given more opportunities to produce offensively...



And as for your love for the TheHockeyNew's top 75 of whatever it is... I'd LOVE to know how many scouts are used to evaluate over 100 18 year olds. I'd LOVE to know why if they are so good, why they aren't hired by an NHL club already.... I trust our team's scouting staff (we also have more scouts than most NHL clubs) much more than these nobodies....

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07-15-2012, 12:54 PM
  #104
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
And as for your love for the TheHockeyNew's top 75 of whatever it is... I'd LOVE to know how many scouts are used to evaluate over 100 18 year olds. I'd LOVE to know why if they are so good, why they aren't hired by an NHL club already.... I trust our team's scouting staff (we also have more scouts than most NHL clubs) much more than these nobodies....
They are NHL scouts, Einstein... and even if they werent , it would still be pretty difficult to argue given their results in the defined set of players I used.

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07-15-2012, 12:57 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by bobermay View Post
Do you even know I was arguing? I was saying its silly writing Biggs off at this point, and that his point totals last season really don't mean a whole lot.... I used current NHLers (and 1st round picks), to site some examples...

Different NCAA teams have different philosophies.... Miami wanted Biggs to be a more well-rounded player and played him on the 2nd and 3rd lines. They probably also didn't want to overwhelm the youngest player on the team as well...... He was given PK duties, and did well overall in a league where the average player is 2-3years older than him.... Who knows.. on other teams, he might have been given more opportunities to produce offensively...



And as for your love for the TheHockeyNew's top 75 of whatever it is... I'd LOVE to know how many scouts are used to evaluate over 100 18 year olds. I'd LOVE to know why if they are so good, why they aren't hired by an NHL club already.... I trust our team's scouting staff (we also have more scouts than most NHL clubs) much more than these nobodies....
His exact words were "it's not looking good". That is by no means a guarantee of failure.

He is stating, with good reason, that there are legitimate points working against Biggs' chances of becoming a successful first round draft pick. That doesn't mean that there aren't points working in Biggs' favor (most notably time). But that in his opinion, the points working against outweigh the points working for.

It's not a crazy or even unreasonable argument. As a late first round draft pick, these guys already have their work cut out for them if you look at history. Now you toss in a few other factors, with which the poster pointed out a very legitimate trend, and it's something to think about.

Just like any NHL draft pick save the top 10 or so, Biggs is most likely to not be a valuable NHL player. It doesn't mean we can't root for him without condemning anyone who points out the obvious odds.

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07-15-2012, 12:59 PM
  #106
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better dominate because we passed over Morrow.

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07-15-2012, 01:05 PM
  #107
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I watched almost every game he played last year. His size and strength is just ridiculous. Every time he hits somebody they get flattened. His offense is very limited tho. He's got a very hard wrister but doesn't get that many chances to take it because of his below average quickness. He has pretty good top speed especially for someone his size but he just doesn't have that quickness that you need at the professional level. He definitely needs to develop at least one more year in Oshawa to gain that quickness and grow in to his body. He's got some upside but don't expect a top 6 powerforward in the NHL. third line colby armstrong like is possible.

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07-15-2012, 01:13 PM
  #108
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Ryane Clowe should be acquired to score and apprentice Biggs

Was thinking that Tyler Biggs and Devane have no mentor or player on the Leaf team that even closely resembles the game we expect them to develop toward. Its a glaring absence in our lineup actually. Given Clowes game/age/experience he is perfect to come and play in Toronto for several productive years and provide a live mentor for these physical big prospects we have on the way.

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07-15-2012, 01:16 PM
  #109
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Please point to the information on Clowe being available.

Congratulations on another moved thread, BTW.

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07-15-2012, 01:24 PM
  #110
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UFA after this season.

Doesn't have many more effective years because of the way he plays. Fans hated the Owen Nolan trade and we were closer to being a contender then. Giving up significant assets for Clowe would be like the Nolan trade all over again except worse cause we're further away from being a contender.

Besides our strongest area is on the wing. How about we address our need at center or goal first? Or even another dman first.

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07-15-2012, 01:27 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post

Yes, I love that publication, it's my bible, actually.

Come on, man. It was one of four things I mentioned. The point being that all signs right now (perception by NHL pro scouts, perception by the US Junior team, perception from a stats angle, and actual stats) don't bode well for him at the moment.
The guy in your avatar was also picked 22nd overall in 2007, did you use the same reasoning as you did for Biggs, calling him a bust one year after he was drafted when he only had 15 goals in 37 games for Michigan, and even worse 6 in 37 AHL games the following season with Hamilton?

Let's see if this passes the hyprocrisy smell test?

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07-15-2012, 01:53 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
Was thinking that Tyler Biggs and Devane have no mentor or player on the Leaf team that even closely resembles the game we expect them to develop toward. Its a glaring absence in our lineup actually. Given Clowes game/age/experience he is perfect to come and play in Toronto for several productive years and provide a live mentor for these physical big prospects we have on the way.
Clowe isn't allowed to play in the OHL, and I'm sure he'd e claimed off waivers if we wanted to try and put him in the AHL.

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07-15-2012, 02:07 PM
  #113
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
The guy in your avatar was also picked 22nd overall in 2007, did you use the same reasoning as you did for Biggs, calling him a bust one year after he was drafted when he only had 15 goals in 37 games for Michigan, and even worse 6 in 37 AHL games the following season with Hamilton?

Let's see if this passes the hyprocrisy smell test?
LOL! Who do you think is in my avatar?

someone help this guy out.

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07-15-2012, 02:14 PM
  #114
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I think a 3rd line of Biggs-Kadri-Ross woul be awesome in the near future.

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07-15-2012, 02:38 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
LOL! Who do you think is in my avatar?

someone help this guy out.
67, understandly I am not surprised he is hanging his head. Pacioretty. LOL!

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07-15-2012, 02:39 PM
  #116
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Avoiding a question about that bust Pacioretty? LOL!

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07-15-2012, 02:49 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
67, understandly I am not surprised he is hanging his head. Pacioretty. LOL!
It's Svehla

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Old
07-15-2012, 03:05 PM
  #118
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It's Svehla
Still, I am waiting to hear from Seventieslord how he would have been WRONG, using his own set of rules, that he would have written off a #22 overall pick in 07 as Biggs was also in 11, when Max averaged 0.40 goals in Michigan after being drafted by the Habs, which is basically almost the same average that Biggs averaged last year of 0.35 goals a game. This is the basis of his argument of Biggs being a bust.

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07-15-2012, 03:55 PM
  #119
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Still, I am waiting to hear from Seventieslord how he would have been WRONG, using his own set of rules, that he would have written off a #22 overall pick in 07 as Biggs was also in 11, when Max averaged 0.40 goals in Michigan after being drafted by the Habs, which is basically almost the same average that Biggs averaged last year of 0.35 goals a game. This is the basis of his argument of Biggs being a bust.
This is just gold!

Forget the fact that you got my avatar so incredibly wrong...

No one is "writing off" Biggs, i am just showing that historical data doesnt support the idea that he will be a good NHL player at this point. I could be wrong about the outcome, but i am not wrong about what is "most likely" to happen from here on. And like i always tell fact-allergic Leafs fans, we'll all be alive and on these boards in five years, so you can beak me then if you want.

In what universe is 9/37 0.35?

Second, points are a much better indicator than goals. Pacioretty had over a point per game as a freshman. Biggs, less than half a PPG.

Third, Pacioretty doesn't meet the set of criteria I laid out: he was well within the top-75 the following year after being drafted, so there was really no indication that the scouts had lost any faith in him. Looks like they were right. Just like they were right about the players they did lose faith in, as my data demonstrated.

So what's the contradiction here? And how many more things are you going to be wrong about today? Wow... you gotta get something right if you want to effectively beak me

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07-15-2012, 04:38 PM
  #120
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Here we go again..

MooseOak how about you propose adding Wellwood and Josee Chouinard to the leafs it matches your lack of desire to have anything approaching a physical team..

Last year i noticed you go silent after the Boston game

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07-15-2012, 04:44 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Hawaiinleaf View Post
Here we go again..

MooseOak how about you propose adding Wellwood and Josee Chouinard to the leafs it matches your lack of desire to have anything approaching a physical team..

Last year i noticed you go silent after the Boston game
Why don't you understand that physicality won't win you championships on its own?
Every post you put out involves us acquiring big, lumbering forwards, because we apparently need to win as many back-alley brawls as possible to get into the playoffs.

Get over it. Toughness is one element in a myriad of elements, that a team needs to succeed. We need more than just toughness..

Put it together..

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07-15-2012, 04:50 PM
  #122
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As we don't have any and i was barking about it from say 1 last season while many here said dont worry about we dont need it until the wheels fell off

I have my opinion that the team folded because of intimidation and lack of any ability to defend themselves

Witness the perimeter game we played? Accident nope. No one was able to play the battles in front of the net nor the boards battles to win the puck...

So yes we need large players with motors that wont stop

In Rugby terms when your feet stop moving you tend to watch the other squad win...

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07-15-2012, 04:54 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by AuraSphere View Post
What do you guys think about tyler's progression? Do you think it's to early to tell or is it obvious that he's gonna crack the nhl some day?

I just wanted to know a little bit more because his name doesn't seem to be blasting up to much
65 points in oshawa .....85 the next year ....2years on the marlies ...

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Old
07-15-2012, 04:57 PM
  #124
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As we don't have any and i was barking about it from say 1 last season while many here said dont worry about we dont need it until the wheels fell off

I have my opinion that the team folded because of intimidation and lack of any ability to defend themselves

Witness the perimeter game we played? Accident nope. No one was able to play the battles in front of the net nor the boards battles to win the puck...

So yes we need large players with motors that wont stop

In Rugby terms when your feet stop moving you tend to watch the other squad win...
Defend ourselves??

No, that's not a problem that stops you from winning games. Not being able to clear the front of your net, not having a presence in front of the opponents net, and not being effective along the boards in the offensive/defensive zones will burn you, and can be helped with the addition of size, but being an intimidating team doesn't win you championships.

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Old
07-15-2012, 05:35 PM
  #125
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I really hope he plays for the gennies. Im not sure if Christian Thomas or Boone Jenner are coming back, but if not, he'll definitely have a big role on the team. He'll also add to the nice rivalry with the Peterborough Petes.

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