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Old
07-17-2012, 09:56 AM
  #351
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Also, I'm not 100% sure on this, but hasn't there been some questions regarding the health of those two players over the past few seasons? I'm sure I read something about it.
I think it may have been somewhere towards the back of the newspapers.

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07-17-2012, 09:59 AM
  #352
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Originally Posted by kahlon66 View Post
We have the two best players in the world, we should be winning multiple cups, not just one cup. I really feel if they have a early playoff exit that they need to make either a coaching or managing change.

What do you think?
I think disco is already on the hot seat. If they have a healthy roster and are eliminated in the first round, he will be fired. And yes, he will take Craig Adams with him.

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07-17-2012, 10:00 AM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
ya it was a weird couple years for Dr. Recchi (I typed this before your post Jig )



Because he was talking about Paccioretty's medical condition after the Chara incident like he had any idea what he was talking about.


lol yeah i remember that, you have great knowledge, glad to talk about hockey with you

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07-17-2012, 10:03 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I doubt it. No one expects Sutter to do as well as Staal. And everyone knew he was gone next year for nothing. We got a very good return given the bad circumstances we were in. Only an idiot would get upset when, not if, Staal outpreforms Sutter.
Wait... we did?

It sure doesn't seem like Shero thought that. Seems a bit like revisionist history to make us feel a little happier about the whole thing. Or do you just mean that had Shero chosen to keep him on (beyond all reason and common sense) for one last hurrah after he rejected his contract offer, then he would have lost him for nothing?

I figure he would have shipped him out earlier than the last possible second for better value if he knew ahead of time that he wasn't interested in staying. I figure he wouldn't have reportedly been "furious" when Staal rejected his terms, either, had he known it was a foregone conclusion. Not that I mind the return from the Canes, as is. Considering the circumstances... it was pretty kind of Rutherford, really.

I do think he misread the Staal situation a little bit. To be fair, it wasn't entirely his fault. Staal never indicated that he wanted anything but to remain a Penguin for the long term when prompted. He probably told Shero the same line on many different occasions, too. Which strikes me as a little chicken****... but whatever. All in all, I think he's a fine GM. I don't buy into this "top five in the league" business... but he's done a very good job, for the most part. His draft record is debatable. But that should be more clear after this season and next, I think.

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07-17-2012, 10:08 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Wait... we did?

It sure doesn't seem like Shero thought that. Seems a bit like revisionist history to make us feel a little happier about the whole thing.

I figure he would have shipped him out earlier than the last possible second for better value if that were the case. I figure he wouldn't have reportedly been "furious" when Staal rejected his terms, either, had he known it was a foregone conclusion. Not that I mind the return from the Canes, as is. Considering the circumstances... it was pretty kind of Rutherford, really.

I do think he misread the Staal situation a little bit but all in all, I think he's a fine GM. I don't buy into this "top five in the league" business... but he's done a very good job, for the most part. His draft record is debatable. But that should be more clear after this season and next, I think.
he didn't know it until he turned down the 60 million dollar contract. then he did. then he traded him. the idea was all but verified by Staal signing the same deal in Carolina that he had turned down here.

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07-17-2012, 10:10 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by kahlon66 View Post
You guys are right, I remember CP signing him and then him being traded to Carolina and being signed again in the offseason
I have been very critical of this org inability to draft and develop skilled fwds, probably moreso than anyone on here.

However, I understand what Shero is doing and even came right out before the draft and said he should take a blueliner, because I knew a highly rated one would slip to them. I basically said he should build the best blueline farm in the league and he did just that in a single night.

He also drafted two highly skilled fwd prospects this year who have boom or bust potential. That is all I ever asked of him. There really is little for me to complain about now in regards to his drafting.

In the next two years we will have a good feel for how well Shero has truly drafted, as several of the prospects he has drafted are knocking on the door.

By then we will also know if Tangradi fits the bill as a top 6 guy and I believe he is going to be a very good third wheel for Sid or Geno.

Shero also has cap space now and how he uses it could go a long way towards cementing this team as a contender or not.

So basically Shero has done very well with trades, I love the direction he has gone with the farm and I would call him mediocre in the UFA market.

I don't get into ranking GMs, I just know a good GM when I see one and Shero fits the bill.

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07-17-2012, 10:13 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
he didn't know it until he turned down the 60 million dollar contract. then he did. then he traded him. the idea was all but verified by Staal signing the same deal in Carolina that he had turned down here.
Yeah... I edited a little bit. I think I may have misread some of what Jaded was saying. Woke up late. Coffee still working on the brainpan.

If he didn't find out what Staal truly wanted until that moment, though, then he misread the situation. But, again... to be fair... Staal was probably telling him stuff like "Oh yeah, Ray, I want to be here forever! You drafted me! Stanley Cup! Old Time Hockey! Eddie Shore!"

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07-17-2012, 10:17 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Yeah... I edited a little bit. I think I may have misread some of what Jaded was saying. Woke up late. Coffee still working on the brainpan.

If he didn't find out what Staal truly wanted until that moment, though, then he misread the situation. But, again... to be fair... Staal was probably telling him stuff like "Oh yeah, Ray, I want to be here forever! You drafted me! Stanley Cup! Old Time Hockey! Eddie Shore!"
If Staal told him he didn't want to be a Pen, why would he have offered him a 60m deal?

Unless it was a PR move, who knows....

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07-17-2012, 10:19 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
It's not so easy in a cap world because high-end players get paid, which means there's less money to spread around for support players. Nobody else has repeated, and only one other team has a Cup win and a Finals appearance.
you shouldnt think about no other team repeated, none of those teams have been favourites to win every year to win like the Pens........Kings were not favourites to win, Bruins were not favourites to win, Blackhawks were not favourites to win, every year its been the Penguins and they have early playoff exits

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07-17-2012, 10:20 AM
  #360
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Re: Staal - I think his point totals won't change that much from year to year. Once he starts facing the other teams' best D every night, taking away that extra bit of space and time, he's going to have the same troubles he had here at times. Other times he'll look like The Man. His totals will fluctuate some. I think he'll have the random "big year" with points and those will be sandwiched by more average years like he's had here. I don't think he'll ever be the consistent 70 point guy for example.

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07-17-2012, 10:20 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
If Staal told him he didn't want to be a Pen, why would he have offered him a 60m deal?

Unless it was a PR move, who knows....
Yeah, exactly.

It's why my opinion of Staal is a little less rosy than seemingly most other people's. Have fun languishing in NASCAR-ville. Hope playin' with your bro is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Re: Staal - I think his point totals won't change that much from year to year. Once he starts facing the other teams' best D every night, taking away that extra bit of space and time, he's going to have the same troubles he had here at times. Other times he'll look like The Man. His totals will fluctuate some. I think he'll have the random "big year" with points and those will be sandwiched by more average years like he's had here. I don't think he'll ever be the consistent 70 point guy for example.
I also wholeheartedly agree with this. I think a lot of people don't think of the added pressure and difficulty associated with playing a top six role every night. I also think people oversell Staal's overall offensive ability. He shows flashes, for sure... but I don't see his point totals ballooning any time soon. It's not like he didn't get big minutes in Pittsburgh. It's not like he hasn't had plenty of shakes in the top six over the last two years. Last season was the first time he ever showed he might be capable of taking advantage of that role. And his defense suffered (IMO) badly for it.


Last edited by BlindWillyMcHurt: 07-17-2012 at 10:27 AM.
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Old
07-17-2012, 10:22 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Von Malkin View Post
There have been no top 6 forwards coming through the pipeline in years. Shero hasn't signed any high impact free agent forwards (or any other position, michalek and Martin havent worked out). The hossa deal went down in February 2008. The Kunitz trade occurred in February of 2009. Staal was drafted (ahead of better players) in 2006. Besides the Neal trade, shero really hasn't done much in 3 years. Coincidentally the team hasn't done much in the postseason in 4 years.

Now we are worse than last years team. But shero seems content at standing pat with this roster? The team has done worse in the playoffs each year since winning the cup. The whole we won the cup with this group approach is getting old and not working.

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Old
07-17-2012, 10:23 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Von Malkin View Post
There have been no top 6 forwards coming through the pipeline in years. Shero hasn't signed any high impact free agent forwards (or any other position, michalek and Martin havent worked out). The hossa deal went down in February 2008. The Kunitz trade occurred in February of 2009. Staal was drafted (ahead of better players) in 2006. Besides the Neal trade, shero really hasn't done much in 3 years. Coincidentally the team hasn't done much in the postseason in 4 years.

Now we are worse than last years team. But shero seems content at standing pat with this roster? The team has done worse in the playoffs each year since winning the cup. The whole we won the cup with this group approach is getting old and not working.
You are trying to judge Shero's moves for a season that has not even begun yet, let alone ended. It is kind of foolish if you judge a GMs moves a full year ahead of time and make a silly assumption that he will stand pat with 11m in cap space.

This board was in full melt down mode when they missed out on Hossa AND lost Malone and Orpik. At least then you could see a reason for panic, especially given that there was so little cap space available.

It all worked out ok at the end of the year if I remember correctly.

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07-17-2012, 10:28 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Yeah, exactly.

It's why my opinion of Staal is a little less rosy than seemingly most other people's. Have fun languishing in NASCAR-ville. Hope playin' with your bro is worth it.
I hold no ill wiil towards him. I think in the end his departure will really help this team build around Crosby and Malkin, and I can't blame him for not wanting to be stuck behind those two.

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07-17-2012, 10:29 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You are trying to judge Shero's moves for a season that has not even begun yet, let alone ended. It is kind of foolish if you judge a GMs moves a full year ahead of time and make a silly assumption that he will stand pat with 11m in cap space.

This board was in full melt down mode when they missed out on Hossa AND lost Malone and Orpik. At least then you could see a reason for panic, especially given that there was so little cap space available.

It all worked out ok at the end of the year if I remember correctly.
I want him to have significant cap space for deadline time, he has always done well with trade deadline trades

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07-17-2012, 10:30 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I hold no ill wiil towards him. I think in the end his departure will really help this team build around Crosby and Malkin, and I can't blame him for not wanting to be stuck behind those two.
He outgrew his role here. As long as Shero is committed to getting Sid a linemate and DB can adjust the way we defend, we'll be a better team next year.

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07-17-2012, 10:31 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
In the next two years we will have a good feel for how well Shero has truly drafted, as several of the prospects he has drafted are knocking on the door.

By then we will also know if Tangradi fits the bill as a top 6 guy and I believe he is going to be a very good third wheel for Sid.
You do realize shero was hired in 2006, right? You are giving him 2 more years to evaluate his drafting ability? So you are giving him 8 years? Thats quite generous of you. Tangradi was acquired in 2008, you are going to wait another 2 years to see if he can become a top 6 forward? tangradi needs to **** or get off the pot, he doesn't have the luxury of waiting 2 more years to prove his value.

You act like tangradi is a 20 year old prospect and shero was hired only a year or 2 ago.

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07-17-2012, 10:32 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
You are trying to judge Shero's moves for a season that has not even begun yet, let alone ended. It is kind of foolish if you judge a GMs moves a full year ahead of time and make a silly assumption that he will stand pat with 11m in cap space.

This board was in full melt down mode when they missed out on Hossa AND lost Malone and Orpik. At least then you could see a reason for panic, especially given that there was so little cap space available.

It all worked out ok at the end of the year if I remember correctly.
Indeed. The 2009 Penguins started the season worse than the 2008 Penguins. No doubt about it.

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07-17-2012, 10:33 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by kahlon66 View Post
I want him to have significant cap space for deadline time, he has always done well with trade deadline trades
I want a hockey trade if nothing is done this offseason. Trade deadline is a **** show I want no part of anymore.

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07-17-2012, 10:34 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Von Malkin View Post
You do realize shero was hired in 2006, right? You are giving him 2 more years to evaluate his drafting ability? So you are giving him 8 years? Thats quite generous of you. Tangradi was acquired in 2008, you are going to wait another 2 years to see if he can become a top 6 forward? tangradi needs to **** or get off the pot, he doesn't have the luxury of waiting 2 more years to prove his value.

You act like tangradi is a 20 year old prospect and shero was hired only a year or 2 ago.

I agree with you Von Malkin on that, hes done 6 drafts now i believe, 6 drafts and only Staal is to show for now, that is disgusting..........he passed better players at that time

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07-17-2012, 10:34 AM
  #371
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I want a hockey trade if nothing is done this offseason. Trade deadline is a **** show I want no part of anymore.
a few deadline deals were very crucial to us winning the cup. We also gave up quite a few draft picks in Shero's first few years here to help us get that Cup. Not saying his drafting was great, but it seems to have improved lately.

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07-17-2012, 10:37 AM
  #372
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I want a hockey trade if nothing is done this offseason. Trade deadline is a **** show I want no part of anymore.

Shero has done well during deadline times, Guerin, Gill, Kunitz, Neal, Boucher, Leopold........i feel like hes done his best during the season doing trades.........what you think?

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07-17-2012, 10:37 AM
  #373
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I hold no ill wiil towards him. I think in the end his departure will really help this team build around Crosby and Malkin, and I can't blame him for not wanting to be stuck behind those two.
Shero and Disco would have hammered him into the top six somehow. Even if it were to the detriment to the rest of the team. So I agree with you... ultimately it's for the best. I just feel like (so long as my understanding of the entire situation is close to accurate) he could have been more honest with the GM and team that put an enormous amount of faith in him.

But I suppose in the end I don't really wish the storky goof any real ill will. I just hope he and his team miss the playoffs the rest of their careers. Is that wrong?

Sutter, by the way, might really surprise some people. Though they appear outwardly similar... I think Sutter will bring a slightly different dynamic than Staal. I'm not saying he'll be better... just different. As a bonus... he seems to actually relish in playing a true shutdown role. As opposed to being discontented with his place on the team.

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07-17-2012, 10:39 AM
  #374
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a few deadline deals were very crucial to us winning the cup. We also gave up quite a few draft picks in Shero's first few years here to help us get that Cup. Not saying his drafting was great, but it seems to have improved lately.
There's too much parity in the league anymore. Every team thinks they have a chance in the postseason. I'd be very nervous if I was Shero and I was relying on the deadline to nab my winger for Crosby.

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07-17-2012, 10:39 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by kahlon66 View Post
I agree with you Von Malkin on that, hes done 6 drafts now i believe, 6 drafts and only Staal is to show for now, that is disgusting..........he passed better players at that time
We've traded picks and prospects to make runs. We have a tremendous D pipeline.

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