HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Ladies and gentleman we are going on a strike or lock-out

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-14-2012, 07:03 PM
  #176
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
No.

The owners decide what the prices of tickets and merchandizing will be.

Not until after the tickets merchandizing are actually sold do the players get their share of the money and they do so by an increase in the salary cap.

You are seriously brainwashed by the business elite. What's actually happening is the owners are bringing in more money than ever before and they don't want to share it with the players. Even though the owners forced the players to accept a percentage of revenues instead of being able to sell their services to the highest bidder.

Which is a denial of the basic rights of citizens to compete in a free market economy.
18 of 30 teams in the NHL are losing money.

That is not brainwashing. That is reality.

Why are you so concerned with the players? Are they not making enough money? Is Prust making $2.5 million too little? Are Parise and Suter headed to bankruptcy?

This is not about "basic rights of citizens to compete in a free market economy". No, this is about NHL hockey and you are building strawmen to support your anti-business agenda.

Wrong thread, wrong place, wrong issue.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:06 PM
  #177
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Nice dodge. And a good job of blame/excuse.

Maybe you can answer this question with a straight yes or no answer.

Will increased revenues going to players significantly increase ticket prices and merchandise costs to fans?

Yes or No
Do you really need an answer?

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:12 PM
  #178
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
What is it with you and personal attacks? Nobody's "hating wealthy people", nobody's "butt hurt". We're upset about the prospect of losing a season. Which party is it that locked the players out last time to get a salary cap? Which party has demanded a massive shift in where league revenues go (into their pockets) this time?

Simple question, no hate required.
Read post number 132 first. I am surprised that you are not jumping all over that poster for his valuable contribution to this thread.

Then re-read the posts from several people where they are decrying the wealth of the owners.

Then get back to me.

To answer your question, over half of the League is losing money and the player's association is demanding more money from the ownership. Makes sense, does it not?

I will state my only point again. We, the fans, will bear the brunt if the player's association wins. Crosby will make millions more. So will the schlubs who play a handful of games per season. And we will have to pay significantly more money to support our teams.

If the PA led by Donald Fehr makes unreasonable demands, then yes, the owners will probably call for a lock out. My wish is that they settle it before the season starts. However, I do not want to be ***** by the PA to where it becomes increasingly harder to afford to attend an NHL game.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:14 PM
  #179
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Do you really need an answer?
Everyone knows what the answer is. There are a few people who are blinded by their hatred for anything business that they do not want to admit reality.

They will pay more and the owners will still enjoy their standard of living they are used to and the players will still earn their millions.

A win win for owners and players and lose for fans.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:33 PM
  #180
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,076
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
18 of 30 teams in the NHL are losing money.

That is not brainwashing. That is reality.

Why are you so concerned with the players? Are they not making enough money? Is Prust making $2.5 million too little? Are Parise and Suter headed to bankruptcy?

This is not about "basic rights of citizens to compete in a free market economy". No, this is about NHL hockey and you are building strawmen to support your anti-business agenda.

Wrong thread, wrong place, wrong issue.
I totally agree with your position on this. Yet somehow there are those that draw comparisons between an NHL player and the poor working guy!

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:36 PM
  #181
Bullsmith
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Read post number 132 first. I am surprised that you are not jumping all over that poster for his valuable contribution to this thread.

Then re-read the posts from several people where they are decrying the wealth of the owners.

Then get back to me.

To answer your question, over half of the League is losing money and the player's association is demanding more money from the ownership. Makes sense, does it not?

I will state my only point again. We, the fans, will bear the brunt if the player's association wins. Crosby will make millions more. So will the schlubs who play a handful of games per season. And we will have to pay significantly more money to support our teams.

If the PA led by Donald Fehr makes unreasonable demands, then yes, the owners will probably call for a lock out. My wish is that they settle it before the season starts. However, I do not want to be ***** by the PA to where it becomes increasingly harder to afford to attend an NHL game.
The owners set the ticket prices, then are forced via collective bargaining to give a portin of their revenues to the players. They want to keep more of it. This is actually pretty simple, but you clearly have a bias that makes you see the facts in a non-factual way. Enjoy blaming the players when their salaries go down and ticket prices go up. The incontestable fact is that is what happened last time.
Please, do me favor and don't bother to respond. You've failed to make your points credible enough times already.


Your claim that the players ate demanding more money is the exact opposite of the truth, btw. Nice.


Last edited by Bullsmith: 07-14-2012 at 07:44 PM.
Bullsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:39 PM
  #182
Frozenice
the random dude
 
Frozenice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
18 of 30 teams in the NHL are losing money.

That is not brainwashing. That is reality.

Why are you so concerned with the players? Are they not making enough money? Is Prust making $2.5 million too little? Are Parise and Suter headed to bankruptcy?

This is not about "basic rights of citizens to compete in a free market economy". No, this is about NHL hockey and you are building strawmen to support your anti-business agenda.

Wrong thread, wrong place, wrong issue.
18 out of 30 teams claim to be losing money.

If the owners are willing to open their books to the NHLPA to verify their claims of losing money then and only then should this be brought into the discussion.

Frozenice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:44 PM
  #183
habsfanatics*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
The owners set the ticket prices, then are forced via collective bargaining to give a portin of their revenues to the players. They want to keep more of it. This is actually pretty simple, but you clearly have a bias that makes you see the facts in a non-factual way. Enjoy blaming the players when their salaries go down and ticket prices go up. The incontestable fact is that is what happened last time.
Please, do me favor and don't bother to respond. You've failed to make your points credible enough times already.
Sounds like the voice of a losing argument. Southernhabs is correct.

habsfanatics* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:48 PM
  #184
Bullsmith
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,215
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Sounds like the voice of a losing argument. Southernhabs is correct.
I see, this is how we back up our arguments now? Southernhans has stated factually incorrect things, like his claim the players have asked for more money. Only the owners have done that, at least so far. Where have I used falsehoods?

Jesus, it's like high school around here today.

Bullsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:51 PM
  #185
Craig71
Registered User
 
Craig71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,540
vCash: 500
I think that when it comes to both the owners and the players there are many lies told on both sides. What I find a little foggy in all this is the fact that the owners are signing Parise,Suter,Kovalchuk,Luongo etc to the kind of contracts that they "supposedly" despise. They want longer entry level deals because teams are playing so many young players(cheaper) on their rosters. The one thing that should go is the no trade clause and lists that a player submits to a team when wanting to be traded. If you don't want to play for the team that pays you, then it should not be your choice where you end up but rather the teams choice as to who offers the best trade value. I find it a little sickening to see greedy rich people on both sides fighting for more and more.

Craig71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:54 PM
  #186
habsfanatics*
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
I see, this is how we back up our arguments now? Southernhans has stated factually incorrect things, like his claim the players have asked for more money. Only the owners have done that, at least so far. Where have I used falsehoods?

Jesus, it's like high school around here today.
One misquote and you're going to discredit everything else he's said based on that. You're right, it does seem like high school around here today.

habsfanatics* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 08:36 PM
  #187
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
The owners set the ticket prices, then are forced via collective bargaining to give a portin of their revenues to the players. They want to keep more of it. This is actually pretty simple, but you clearly have a bias that makes you see the facts in a non-factual way. Enjoy blaming the players when their salaries go down and ticket prices go up. The incontestable fact is that is what happened last time.
Please, do me favor and don't bother to respond. You've failed to make your points credible enough times already.


Your claim that the players ate demanding more money is the exact opposite of the truth, btw. Nice.

No, I am going to respond to you because you are misrepresenting what I said.

The NHLPA, led by Donald Fehr, is trying to get a greater portion of team revenues from the owners. That is the factually correct position.

Who makes up the NHLPA? NHL players. Are the NHL players speaking out and demanding more money from the owners? No. That is why they hired Donald Fehr.

Have a great evening.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 09:24 PM
  #188
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
You have no idea what you're on about. The owners can't just banish something after the CBA has already been agreed upon. The PA would be outraged, join reality, nothing you've said here even makes sense.
The PA would have nothing to say about it. It would be a matter of private interest between GMs and Owners, regarding the proper interpretation of the CBA and preventing its stretching/nonrespect of the reason behind a salary cap in the first place.

It's not called "Cap circumventing" for nothing.

Quote:
The game has to grow whether you like it not, some cities were bad, some didn't grow because there team never improved, none of this has anything to do with the current negotiations.
The game had to grow, but because of an unreasoned and unplanned expansion plan, these teams ended up being the ridicule of the league. More often than not in the bottom of the rankings, always in deficit.

Yhea, they put these teams in place, and then every team did everything possible to get advantage out of them. No wonder fans never ended up coming in Atlanta or Phoenix. These kinds of irresponsible ventures are the Governors' faults, not the players. Why should they pay for bad business strategy?

Quote:
The players are owned by the owners, they will dictate the outcome. If you're arguing otherwise, you're wrong.
I thought slavery was banned. Nobody owns anyone here.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 09:26 PM
  #189
PricePkPatch
Registered User
 
PricePkPatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
Do you think that if there a 50/50 split or even 60/40 for the owners they would lower the price of the tickets or merchandise??
Notice how he went immediately for the insult. That's how he keeps his arguments.

Does remembers me of high school.

PricePkPatch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 09:32 PM
  #190
sheed36
Registered User
 
sheed36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,216
vCash: 500
I really hope the NHL and NHLPA can work something out before it comes down to missing games..

Anyway I'm watching game 6 of the Habs/Caps series from 2010 right now on the NHL Network and it shows just how great playoff hockey is when played in Montreal.. Back to the Halak and Cammy show..

sheed36 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 10:23 PM
  #191
JayKing
Go Habs Go
 
JayKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,816
vCash: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Lottery system like 2005 draft.
Could be changed in the new cba though... I doubt it, but it's a possibility

JayKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 10:55 PM
  #192
deandebean
Registered User
 
deandebean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, cālisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 10,137
vCash: 500
It's simple: the ONLY major hurdle to an agreement is the share of wealth. I think the owners will accept 52% on the players' side, 48 on their side. Thus the 47%.

The rest of the propositions are just semantics, most of them not even related to the money involved. I'm with Vincent Damphousse on this one: if the owners don't budge on their 47%, no deal will be made.

Lots of what the owners propose is related to HOW they are managing their money right now. Owners who cry wolf and then turn around and sign players for 7 millions per for 10 years or so look like fools. Fehr knows also that the rich teams, including Montreal, are a bit tired of paying for lousy markets. And the supposed unity on the owners side is verrrrry soff. The small market teams don't care if the season doesn't start in October. Their expenses are mostly salary related and would probably save money. But the big markets, the ones that PAY for the welfare franchises down South, aren't the hardliners here. If the welfare markets play hardball, I suspect some of the big honchos are going to piss vinegar pretty quickly.

deandebean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 11:51 PM
  #193
haburger*
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,592
vCash: 500
this thread is awesome.soo many on here that think they know how big business in the nhl works.this agreement will get done,not sure when, but it will.fans that complain and complain aint gonna change a thing.cause real fans will keep coming back.

haburger* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 11:57 PM
  #194
SouthernHab
Not a Fanboy
 
SouthernHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,023
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Notice how he went immediately for the insult. That's how he keeps his arguments.

Does remembers me of high school.
Your very first post on this thread. Post # 132.

You are making yourself look like a hypocrite and a fool.

SouthernHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2012, 01:19 AM
  #195
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig71 View Post
I think that when it comes to both the owners and the players there are many lies told on both sides. What I find a little foggy in all this is the fact that the owners are signing Parise,Suter,Kovalchuk,Luongo etc to the kind of contracts that they "supposedly" despise. They want longer entry level deals because teams are playing so many young players(cheaper) on their rosters. The one thing that should go is the no trade clause and lists that a player submits to a team when wanting to be traded. If you don't want to play for the team that pays you, then it should not be your choice where you end up but rather the teams choice as to who offers the best trade value. I find it a little sickening to see greedy rich people on both sides fighting for more and more.
I chose my office because it is an excellent one. As a professional I should not be forced to work for a crappy office. I have no problem with player's lists.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2012, 01:34 AM
  #196
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
It's simple: the ONLY major hurdle to an agreement is the share of wealth. I think the owners will accept 52% on the players' side, 48 on their side. Thus the 47%.

The rest of the propositions are just semantics, most of them not even related to the money involved. I'm with Vincent Damphousse on this one: if the owners don't budge on their 47%, no deal will be made.

Lots of what the owners propose is related to HOW they are managing their money right now. Owners who cry wolf and then turn around and sign players for 7 millions per for 10 years or so look like fools. Fehr knows also that the rich teams, including Montreal, are a bit tired of paying for lousy markets. And the supposed unity on the owners side is verrrrry soff. The small market teams don't care if the season doesn't start in October. Their expenses are mostly salary related and would probably save money. But the big markets, the ones that PAY for the welfare franchises down South, aren't the hardliners here. If the welfare markets play hardball, I suspect some of the big honchos are going to piss vinegar pretty quickly.
Damn good post. I don't think there's much unity among owners. Molson will be pissed if there's no opening game October 12ish. Big losses, every home game missed. He makes a lot of money every home game. I think this battle is as much between the top 10 earning clubs and the 20 losers, as it is between players and owners.

Should be interesting. But I will be majorly ****ed off if there's games lost. Really really pissed off.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2012, 04:01 AM
  #197
Mr. Hab
Registered User
 
Mr. Hab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,638
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahleezer View Post
Last time there was a lock-out it helped the Habs get 5th overall pick and draft Carey Price...

If there is a lock-out, will the same scenario occur?

The league will do a special draft like in 2005 and we may have a great shot at MacKinnon?


I really want to believe all those who said ''there will not be a lockout''..., but I just feel it (lockout).

So...in all the negative I will just be hoping for the best...that we end up with another TOP 5 overall pick (ex: Price in 2005...5th overall due to lockout and lottery system/luck).

Mr. Hab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2012, 04:57 AM
  #198
Subban76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,332
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsByTheBay View Post
lmfao.

That's all I'll say about this post. You sound like a kid who read Uncle Miltie a week ago - instead of the baseball scores.
lmfao at your intelligence and knowledge and how you demonstrated your pure imbecility and all the following posts.

lmfao like I had not in a while.

Love inetrnet big shots like you that know nothing and believes he knows it all

Subban76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2012, 05:50 AM
  #199
HabsByTheBay
Registered User
 
HabsByTheBay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Country: United States
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
lmfao at your intelligence and knowledge and how you demonstrated your pure imbecility and all the following posts.

lmfao like I had not in a while.

Love inetrnet big shots like you that know nothing and believes he knows it all
OK there John Galt.

HabsByTheBay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2012, 05:52 AM
  #200
HabsByTheBay
Registered User
 
HabsByTheBay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: London
Country: United States
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Damn good post. I don't think there's much unity among owners. Molson will be pissed if there's no opening game October 12ish. Big losses, every home game missed. He makes a lot of money every home game. I think this battle is as much between the top 10 earning clubs and the 20 losers, as it is between players and owners.

Should be interesting. But I will be majorly ****ed off if there's games lost. Really really pissed off.
Bettman, for all his many, many faults, did a good job of making it 30 clubs vs. the players in the last negotiations.

So if it turns into big market clubs vs. small market clubs, Fehr has already won. He can and will exploit that situation.

HabsByTheBay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.