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Old
07-14-2012, 01:38 AM
  #51
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warmplate View Post
Luke Schenn isn't very good. Toronto won that trade in a landslide and there's no way I accept this trade.
Neither Luke Schenn or JVR is very good right now, and although I agree Toronto will probably win the trade, it's a bit early to say landslide.

The main point being that both have loads of untapped potential.

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Old
07-14-2012, 02:45 AM
  #52
tuckrr
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
You know we can't really do that, right? I mean, we throw him into Weber proposals, but he really can't be traded until we know if Gillis made the right decision, not to mention that we need all the toughness we can get.
That's our situation with L Schenn
(even b schenn to a degree )

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Old
07-14-2012, 02:55 AM
  #53
Vankiller Whale
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
That's our situation with L Schenn
(even b schenn to a degree )
Touche'

I halfway realized that when I made my post, so I understand what you mean.

Ah well.

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Old
07-14-2012, 03:08 AM
  #54
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
To

Edler(assuming he is willing to resign with them)

To

Brayden Schenn
Luke Schenn
Before they close this thread, i have something to tell you.....

I am Chris Hansen, with dateline NBC, and we are doing a story on computer predator who try to **** other team online.

Now, if there's anything else you'd like to tell us, we'd be more than happy to hear it. Otherwise, you're free to walk out of that door.

*******

ok, to be serious... Edler going to be UFA diminish is value, you cant base his value on ''if he is willing to resign with the Flyers''.

What about Edler to the Flyers for Semin and Doan. If doan and Semin sign with the Flyers ? Its kind of the similar logic.

Another year long lockout and the flyers could have a shoot to sign him for free as UFA without giving anything.

Or even without Lockout, the flyers could still try this strategy by waiting just one year. If you are assuming he is willing to sign with them long term and give up his UFA year to the Flyers, so there is a good chance he sign with them as UFA anyways, right?

Well, another way to put it, just look at the historical summer value of upcoming UFA. And you are far from the market value.

A Liles worth a 2nd round. A Cammalleri or Tanguay in their prime worth a mid-late first.

A Byfuglien, Sopel, Eager and Akim liu can be had for a 1st and a 2nd + Reasoner.

Event a Brent Burns or Pronger who was willing to resign with their new team didn't worth as much as the Schenn Brother.


Last edited by palindrom: 07-14-2012 at 03:25 AM.
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Old
07-14-2012, 03:31 AM
  #55
Vankiller Whale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Before they close this thread, i have something to tell you.....

I am Chris Hansen, with dateline NBC, and we are doing a story on computer predator who try to **** other team online.

Now, if there's anything else you'd like to tell us, we'd be more than happy to hear it. Otherwise, you're free to walk out of that door.

*******

ok, to be serious... Edler going to be UFA diminish is value, you cant base his value on ''if he is willing to resign with the Flyers''.

What about Edler to the Flyers for Semin and Doan. If doan and Semin sign with the Flyers ? Its kind of the similar logic.

Another year long lockout and the flyers could have a shoot to sign him for free as UFA without giving anything.

Or even without Lockout, the flyers could still try this strategy by waiting just one year. If you are assuming he is willing to sign with them long term and give up his UFA year to the Flyers, so there is a good chance he sign with them as UFA anyways, right?

Well, another way to put it, just look at the historical summer value of upcoming UFA. And you are far from the market value.

A Liles worth a 2nd round. A Cammalleri or Tanguay in their prime worth a mid-late first.

A Byfuglien, Sopel, Eager and Akim liu can be had for a 1st and a 2nd + Reasoner.
Eh...I don't see why discussing with the player beforehand if their willing to sign long term is a problem. I mean, why are Nashville fans asking for the sun, moon, and stars if Weber becomes a UFA next year?

Obviously I'm not asking for as much as Weber, but essentially it's a guaranteed year of Edler + his assurances he'd resign.

Just like Edmonton or Columbus shouldn't bother forking over assets for Weber, as he has very little incentive to re-sign with them.

And I'm not sure I understand your Doan/Semin analogy. They are UFAs that no one has the rights to. Edler is still under contract for 1 year, and there's no reason why he wouldn't re-sign with a competitor that he would be an integral part of(moreso than Vancouver).

However, despite this, I do understand Flyers' fans desire to count their eggs before selling them. Thanks for hearing me out.

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Old
07-14-2012, 03:38 AM
  #56
BillDineen
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Elder's next contract is going to be massive. No chance by the Flyers.

Note to NHL fans: players contract's matter in valuing players. See Nash, Rick and his 7.8mm cap hit.

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Old
07-14-2012, 03:41 AM
  #57
palindrom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Eh...I don't see why discussing with the player beforehand if their willing to sign long term is a problem. I mean, why are Nashville fans asking for the sun, moon, and stars if Weber becomes a UFA next year?
Well, i think these Weber proposal: ''assuming he sign long term'' are wrong as well.

For proposal purpose, i think for upcoming UFA, we should instead base the value on the remainder of the contract + the possibility to resign player long term, not the assurance of it.

If we start to ''assume the player will resign with his new team long term'' it could lead to a number of proposal spam based on a speculative assumption. And it work both way, Flyers fans could also reply: ''but if we assume the Schenn brother are willing to spend their career in Vancouver on reasonable contract, so they worth a lot more than Edler''

The fact remain the same, thinking Edler would resign with the Flyers long term and basing his value on this is just pure speculation. Would Edler resign with any other team so Flyers have to outbid every team to acquire his service?

It also doesnt take into account the next contract of Edler. Of course the flyers do it if Edler is willing to sign 10 years at 1 500 000$, but a 9 000 000$ x 5 years is another thing.

Anyway, until we have a new CBA in place, i think team are reluctant to acquire upcoming UFA, did any player in this position was traded this summer?

Edit: Well, these was Jordan Stall!! Stall is younger, more experienced than Edler and he didnt bring as much as the Schenn brother in return.


Last edited by palindrom: 07-14-2012 at 04:28 AM.
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Old
07-14-2012, 04:55 AM
  #58
ronaldo123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Bieksa is the epitome of offensive defenseman, and Garrison got 17 goals last year. Even Hamhuis put up a respectable 37 points, not to mention Ballard is looking like he might rebound, and he's also an offensive dman.

Edler is an excellent player, but I wouldn't define him as a PMD. We got Garrison for exactly that reason.

Although my mistake on Brayden Schenn's contract, for some reason I thought he had the same term as Luke.
Edler is a PMD. Don't know what your thinking. Panther's fans say Gareison is not a PMD but a guy with a good shot and a decent first pass. Edler will stay

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Old
07-14-2012, 05:30 AM
  #59
JuniorNelson
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Edler is Vancouver's top guy. Why would they trade him away unless the return is team transforming?

Is Philadelphia still happy with their goaltending? Vancouver is goalie rich, skater poor at this time.

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Old
07-14-2012, 05:56 AM
  #60
palindrom
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Is Philadelphia still happy with their goaltending? Vancouver is goalie rich, skater poor at this time.
Can you explain to me how is that relevant to the thread topic?

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Old
07-14-2012, 06:33 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
think Brent Burns is a decent comparision for Edler's value.
edler is far more valuable than burns was when he got dealt.

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Old
07-14-2012, 10:28 AM
  #62
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Philly counters with:

Meszaros
Voracek
1st

Alex Edler is a terrific defenseman who i was hoping we would swing a trade for but my proposed deal that people agreed upon a while back was

Mez
JVR
Bob
Rights to carle.

Current deal, mez=mez, voracek is moderately better than JVR, and the 1st tops bob and rights to a now signed players.

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Old
07-14-2012, 11:43 AM
  #63
Sasso09
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
You compared Edler to Richards in terms of value for a Schenn... I don't think Edler's value is that far off what the Flyers got for Richards: Schenn, Simmonds, 2nd Round Pick.
It is... Mike Richards has more value than Edler. The origional proposal is hogwash for the flyers.

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Old
07-14-2012, 11:47 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
If the Canucks wanted Luke Schenn we could have traded Luongo for him AND kept Edler, but Gillis said no.

Brayden Schenn does not make up the difference between Luke and Edler
You kidding me? Brayden more than makes up the difference... And there is a big difference. Edler>>>l.schenn. B.Schenn has every indication he's going to be exactly what mike Richards is, and he's a better hockey player than Edler.

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Old
07-14-2012, 12:01 PM
  #65
Hockeypete49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Realistically what should we add then, in your opinion?
Read my lips.... The Schenn Brothers are not going anywhere. We just got them together and right away someone wants us to give them up. Go work a deal with the panthers for christs sake. Bye

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Old
07-14-2012, 12:55 PM
  #66
Al Swearengen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Read my lips.... The Schenn Brothers are not going anywhere. We just got them together and right away someone wants us to give them up. Go work a deal with the panthers for christs sake. Bye
I love it when HF posters speak authoritatively as if with the voice of their chosen franchise. You must feel strong and good!

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Old
07-14-2012, 01:02 PM
  #67
King Forsberg
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No thanks from the Flyers. I just don't think Edler is worth that much.

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Old
07-14-2012, 06:58 PM
  #68
Ronaldo
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People are idiotic. Burns who Edler is better than got Setoguchi(25 goal scorer) Coyle (Top 10 prospect) and a 1 st round pick.

Setoguchi>L.Schenn
Coyle and 1 st=/<B.Schenn

I find it to be pretty fair value.

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Old
07-14-2012, 07:08 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Elder's next contract is going to be massive. No chance by the Flyers.

Note to NHL fans: players contract's matter in valuing players. See Nash, Rick and his 7.8mm cap hit.
Exactly why the Canucks would have zero interest in Luke Schenn. Schenn doesn't crack the Canucks starting lineup and comes with a huge pricetag...

No interest in this deal from the Canucks end. Puts Vancouver further away from winning the cup and finding defensemen with Edler's combination of size, skill and physicality is next to impossible.

Edler's pretty much untouchable unless Weber goes to Vancouver. Just can't replace his 50 points and 25:00 of icetime through trade or free agency.

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Old
07-14-2012, 07:11 PM
  #70
medhatcanuck
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Philly
Luongo
Edler
Schroeder

Van
Bryzgalov
Both schenns

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Old
07-14-2012, 07:12 PM
  #71
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Schenn's are the most overrated players , just because of their names. Luke would be lucky to develop into a top 4 Dman on a contending team. Edler would be Philly's number 1 defensemen. There's a greater chance of Edler devloping into Weber than Luke turning into an Edler.

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Old
07-14-2012, 07:17 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Swearengen View Post
I love it when HF posters speak authoritatively as if with the voice of their chosen franchise. You must feel strong and good!
I think most Flyers fans can say with confidence that if B. Schenn were to be moved, he would be gone already. There have been no shortage of teams rumored to have interest and some very good players who the Flyers have had interest in. Holmgren has not budged on his stance to keep hold of Schenn and Couturier.



If the Flyers were to move Brayden Schenn in a deal for a defender, I think Yandle would be the most likely player for them to pursue (other than Weber, obviously).

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Old
07-14-2012, 07:38 PM
  #73
cheesesteak
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Originally Posted by Icebreakers View Post
Schenn's are the most overrated players , just because of their names. Luke would be lucky to develop into a top 4 Dman on a contending team. Edler would be Philly's number 1 defensemen. There's a greater chance of Edler devloping into Weber than Luke turning into an Edler.
I admit they have had a lot of hype behind them. How's Luke overrated right now though? I'd say the majority of HFBOARDS is down on Luke Schenn...he may be underrated("Luke would be lucky to develop into a top 4 Dman" is what I hear from a lot of people, he's only 22!). Brayden has done nothing to assume he's gonna be a bust he had bad luck with injuries to start last season but he had a solid second half and playoffs...he showed why he was the main piece in a trade for Richie.

Of course both players could completely bust but The Flyers are really high on them and will most likely hold on to them and see what they become after trading Richie and JVR for them. Unless a not over the hill #1 Dman signed longterm is coming to Philly, and who is looking to trade #1 Dmen signed longterm?

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Old
07-14-2012, 07:41 PM
  #74
palindrom
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Originally Posted by King Canuck View Post
People are idiotic. Burns who Edler is better than got Setoguchi(25 goal scorer)
What is your Definition of a 25 goals Scorer?

Is Gomez a 25 goals Scorer by your definition?

You know, i took Setoguchi in my hockey pool in 2009-2010 because he was a: ''31 goals, 65points player''. Result: he had 36 points in 2009-2010 and i didn't win anything in my pool.


Last edited by palindrom: 07-14-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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Old
07-14-2012, 07:49 PM
  #75
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I'd rather have Couturier than both Schenns.

Straight swap: Edler for Couturier? Don't know how far off I am.

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