HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Vancouver-Philadelphia

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-14-2012, 06:52 PM
  #76
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,761
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
I'd rather have Couturier than both Schenns.

Straight swap: Edler for Couturier? Don't know how far off I am.
I think they'd have to add a little, but we'd need to find a replacement top 4 before I do this.

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 06:53 PM
  #77
KISSland
Registered User
 
KISSland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I think they'd have to add a little, but we'd need to find a replacement top 4 before I do this.
Yeah absolutely. This is pending we sign Weber. And I personally don't think they'd need to add. Maybe just a 2nd. But I'm very high on Couturier.

Not to mention Couturier is still on his ELC and contributing at the age of 19. I think the value is fair without the 2nd. And I personally think Edler is a top 15 dman in this league.


Last edited by KISSland: 07-14-2012 at 07:01 PM.
KISSland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:07 PM
  #78
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlottesville
Posts: 5,937
vCash: 500
A Couturier for Edler swap is fair value. But Holmgren appears to be very stubborn on the idea of building around Giroux, Schenn, and Couturier, and Flyers fans are extremely attached to Couturier.

I dont think you'd find any Flyers fan who would approve of Couturier for Edler even if it is technically fair. The Flyers have extremely high hopes for Couturier, and his defensive prowess is something necessary to compete in the Atlantic Division.

hockeyfreak7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:16 PM
  #79
Guitpik
Registered User
 
Guitpik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 266
vCash: 500
I know that Vancouver fans like to over value their players just like every other fan of every other team does, but Edler is NOT going to get you both Schenn brothers. He will not no matter how much you want to argue, it won't in any reality happen.

Guitpik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:17 PM
  #80
NitHeel
Mucker/Grinder
 
NitHeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Reading, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
I'd rather have Couturier than both Schenns.

Straight swap: Edler for Couturier? Don't know how far off I am.
Talent-wise it's certainly more then fine, but the Flyers aren't dealing Couturier for 1 year of Edler and the hope you can resign him to a slightly less mammoth deal then they'll want to throw at Weber in the next year.

NitHeel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:20 PM
  #81
LickTheEnvelope
Decertified Poster
 
LickTheEnvelope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 25,972
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitpik View Post
I know that Vancouver fans like to over value their players just like every other fan of every other team does, but Edler is NOT going to get you both Schenn brothers. He will not no matter how much you want to argue, it won't in any reality happen.
So Weber is worth both Schenns + + but Edler is not worth both Schenns?


LickTheEnvelope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:21 PM
  #82
supert
Registered User
 
supert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,890
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
To

Edler(assuming he is willing to resign with them)

To

Brayden Schenn
Luke Schenn

EDIT: As a basis, with maybe some additions to even out value.

Why Philadelphia does it: They get a young all-star defenseman at the cost of forward depth and an underachieving defenseman It also makes room for Couturier in the 2C spot.

Why Vancouver does it:
We get an infusion of youth and toughness, getting someone who can play the 2C while Kesler is out, as well as swapping Edler for a RD, so Garrison can play on his more comfortable side. Both brothers have a high ceiling, and an injection of youth is what is needed to keep the team competitive long-term.
And Canucks fans say Oilers fans overvalue their players

supert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:22 PM
  #83
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,761
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
Talent-wise it's certainly more then fine, but the Flyers aren't dealing Couturier for 1 year of Edler and the hope you can resign him to a slightly less mammoth deal then they'll want to throw at Weber in the next year.
Realistically I see Edler signing for 6 mil(5-5.5 in Vancouver if Gillis works his magic) and Weber signing for 8 mil. About a 2 mil difference.

Besides, Vancouver's signing Weber anyways.

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:32 PM
  #84
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlottesville
Posts: 5,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
So Weber is worth both Schenns + + but Edler is not worth both Schenns?

To the Flyers, yes.

hockeyfreak7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:35 PM
  #85
HankieDankie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 589
vCash: 500
No way, from a Canucks fan.

Edler is so underrated.

HankieDankie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 07:54 PM
  #86
Drop the Sopel
Feaster famine
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: calgary
Posts: 14,401
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guitpik View Post
I know that Vancouver fans like to over value their players just like every other fan of every other team does, but Edler is NOT going to get you both Schenn brothers. He will not no matter how much you want to argue, it won't in any reality happen.
Canuck fans don't want both Schenn brothers for Edler...

Luke Schenn isn't a top 6 dman in Vancouver. Worthless asset for the Canucks.

Drop the Sopel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 08:07 PM
  #87
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,761
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Canuck fans don't want both Schenn brothers for Edler...

Luke Schenn isn't a top 6 dman in Vancouver. Worthless asset for the Canucks.
He was referring to me, who proposed it. And I understand why they wouldn't trade them, as they haven't had a chance to see them play yet.

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 08:13 PM
  #88
Jray42
Registered User
 
Jray42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 2,779
vCash: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
So Weber is worth both Schenns + + but Edler is not worth both Schenns?

Precisely.

Jray42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 08:31 PM
  #89
NitHeel
Mucker/Grinder
 
NitHeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Reading, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Realistically I see Edler signing for 6 mil(5-5.5 in Vancouver if Gillis works his magic) and Weber signing for 8 mil. About a 2 mil difference.

Besides, Vancouver's signing Weber anyways.
If Matt Carle got the deal he did, I would think Edler would get more then what you listed. But my basic point remains the same. I'd much rather have Couturier and Weber with Suter's contract then just Edler at the contract he gets. And if Vancouver signs Weber, that should leave Edler to being signed for zero assets.

NitHeel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 08:42 PM
  #90
ronaldo123
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 326
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
If Matt Carle got the deal he did, I would think Edler would get more then what you listed. But my basic point remains the same. I'd much rather have Couturier and Weber with Suter's contract then just Edler at the contract he gets. And if Vancouver signs Weber, that should leave Edler to being signed for zero assets.
If you want to consider Matt Carle's contract, than Weber will get a 10m deal

ronaldo123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 09:13 PM
  #91
rye&ginger
Registered User
 
rye&ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,156
vCash: 500
Rather keel the all star than taking the depth from two worse players I think. Tough call though.

rye&ginger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 09:25 PM
  #92
KISSland
Registered User
 
KISSland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
If Matt Carle got the deal he did, I would think Edler would get more then what you listed. But my basic point remains the same. I'd much rather have Couturier and Weber with Suter's contract then just Edler at the contract he gets. And if Vancouver signs Weber, that should leave Edler to being signed for zero assets.
You're banking on Weber to sign with the Flyers though. I personally feel Weber will stay in the West if he becomes a UFA.

And what makes you think you can sign Edler without having a whole year of negotiation? I think it's likely if we get Weber and Edler walks he'll probably go to Detroit, just my gut feeling.

I think it would be safe to trade for Edler now, and have faith in your GM. I think Holmgren would get things done. And I think he'd sign for 6MM per year, Weber likely 8-9MM.

If Gillis extends Edler now(which I personally feel he'll do,) at 6MM for 6-7 years would you like the deal then?

Signed Edler for Couturier?

I would be happy with this deal. I think Couturier will be a great player to have when Henrik starts to decline. Even if they're good players at 35. It would be pretty sweet to re-sign them and play them on the third line.

Edler replaces Timonen. Philly still has Giroux, Briere, Schenn in the top 9.

Everybody wins.

KISSland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 09:40 PM
  #93
leafs8181*
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
You're banking on Weber to sign with the Flyers though. I personally feel Weber will stay in the West if he becomes a UFA.

And what makes you think you can sign Edler without having a whole year of negotiation? I think it's likely if we get Weber and Edler walks he'll probably go to Detroit, just my gut feeling.

I think it would be safe to trade for Edler now, and have faith in your GM. I think Holmgren would get things done. And I think he'd sign for 6MM per year, Weber likely 8-9MM.

If Gillis extends Edler now(which I personally feel he'll do,) at 6MM for 6-7 years would you like the deal then?

Signed Edler for Couturier?

I would be happy with this deal. I think Couturier will be a great player to have when Henrik starts to decline. Even if they're good players at 35. It would be pretty sweet to re-sign them and play them on the third line.

Edler replaces Timonen. Philly still has Giroux, Briere, Schenn in the top 9.

Everybody wins.
I don't see the Flyers trading Couturier for Edler whatsoever. Their management is extremely high on him and the only way I see them trading him is if a signed Weber came back the other way and even then I don't know if they'd trade him.

leafs8181* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 09:55 PM
  #94
Flyerfan52
Registered User
 
Flyerfan52's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
Philly
Luongo
Edler
Schroeder

Van
Bryzgalov
Both schenns
Change Luongo to Schneider & I'd be on board for this.

Flyerfan52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 10:01 PM
  #95
Vankiller Whale
Win it for AV
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,761
vCash: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan52 View Post
Change Luongo to Schneider & I'd be on board for this.
I wouldn't be on board with it even with Luongo. If we're taking Bryz, Couturier needs to come back.

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 10:02 PM
  #96
LeX4cavalier
Registered User
 
LeX4cavalier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa
Country: United States
Posts: 1,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan52 View Post
Change Luongo to Schneider & I'd be on board for this.
Change Bryzgalov to Couturier and i'll be on board with this.

LeX4cavalier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 10:05 PM
  #97
Flyerfan52
Registered User
 
Flyerfan52's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
So Weber is worth both Schenns + + but Edler is not worth both Schenns?

Yes!

Weber is a franchise defense-man. Edler is a 1st when you don't have better.

The Flyers defensive depth (the order is changeable depending on the value individuals place on certain skills) now:
Pronger (if & when he recovers)
Timonen
Coburn
Grossman
Mez
Luke Schenn

Removing Luke & replacing him with Edler doesn't improve it enough to warrant removing Braydon from the forwards.

Flyerfan52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 10:59 PM
  #98
NitHeel
Mucker/Grinder
 
NitHeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Reading, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo123 View Post
If you want to consider Matt Carle's contract, than Weber will get a 10m deal
.....which is exactly how Carle got his deal. Wideman's awful contract begat Garrison's terrible contract begat Carle's deal. That was the point I was making about how the FA market has worked.

Weber's going to get a blank check (within whatever the CBA allows) and Edler will get a step below that. I'd rather have Couturier and take my shot at Weber with Edler as a consolation prize then move Couturier in the hopes that I extend Edler and have no cap space to make a run at Weber.

NitHeel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2012, 11:08 PM
  #99
NitHeel
Mucker/Grinder
 
NitHeel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Reading, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,981
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Figz14 View Post
You're banking on Weber to sign with the Flyers though. I personally feel Weber will stay in the West if he becomes a UFA.

And what makes you think you can sign Edler without having a whole year of negotiation? I think it's likely if we get Weber and Edler walks he'll probably go to Detroit, just my gut feeling.

I think it would be safe to trade for Edler now, and have faith in your GM. I think Holmgren would get things done. And I think he'd sign for 6MM per year, Weber likely 8-9MM.

If Gillis extends Edler now(which I personally feel he'll do,) at 6MM for 6-7 years would you like the deal then?

Signed Edler for Couturier?

I would be happy with this deal. I think Couturier will be a great player to have when Henrik starts to decline. Even if they're good players at 35. It would be pretty sweet to re-sign them and play them on the third line.

Edler replaces Timonen. Philly still has Giroux, Briere, Schenn in the top 9.

Everybody wins.

See above.

I'm not banking on Weber at all. I'm banking on keeping Couturier and having the chance to sign Weber or, failing that, Edler next offseason w/o giving up any assets and with a ton of cap space. I'm under no false illusion that either player is locked into signing in Philadelphia, only that the Flyers are usually pretty successful signing players they have their hearts set on. I'll take my chances on that + having Couturier rather then signing the guy who's not really the guy I want in the first place + not having the guy who just spent his rookie season shutting down Malkin, which is a vital role in this division. Listing Briere as the Flyers top-9 center is not an "everyone wins" scenario beyond the next year or so, partly because of age and mainly because of defensive ability.

I'm glad you think it's safe to trust Holmgren to extend Edler once he would get to PHI, but that faith isn't worth Couturier. That's a huge gamble. I get the argument about the signed Edler but disagree; the unsigned Edler is a total non-starter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leafs8181 View Post
I don't see the Flyers trading Couturier for Edler whatsoever. Their management is extremely high on him and the only way I see them trading him is if a signed Weber came back the other way and even then I don't know if they'd trade him.
And just so I can make sure I'm 100% clear, if losing Couturier meant we could get a signed Shea Weber this summer, I'd carry Couturier on my back to the airport.

NitHeel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2012, 12:09 AM
  #100
KISSland
Registered User
 
KISSland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,681
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NitHeel View Post
See above.

I'm not banking on Weber at all. I'm banking on keeping Couturier and having the chance to sign Weber or, failing that, Edler next offseason w/o giving up any assets and with a ton of cap space. I'm under no false illusion that either player is locked into signing in Philadelphia, only that the Flyers are usually pretty successful signing players they have their hearts set on. I'll take my chances on that + having Couturier rather then signing the guy who's not really the guy I want in the first place + not having the guy who just spent his rookie season shutting down Malkin, which is a vital role in this division. Listing Briere as the Flyers top-9 center is not an "everyone wins" scenario beyond the next year or so, partly because of age and mainly because of defensive ability.

I'm glad you think it's safe to trust Holmgren to extend Edler once he would get to PHI, but that faith isn't worth Couturier. That's a huge gamble. I get the argument about the signed Edler but disagree; the unsigned Edler is a total non-starter.




And just so I can make sure I'm 100% clear, if losing Couturier meant we could get a signed Shea Weber this summer, I'd carry Couturier on my back to the airport.
I understand. You feel the gamble is worth the risk.

What happens if you trade for Couturier, but his heart was set on Vancouver?(I'm just assuming, I don't think his only team would be Van.)

Edit: Yes I'm aware you can say that with Edler too.


Last edited by KISSland: 07-15-2012 at 12:15 AM.
KISSland is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.