Dan Rosen @drosennhl
Had a quick conversation with Pens GM Ray Shero about something unrelated to free agency, but of course it comes back to free agency...
Quote:
Dan Rosen @drosennhl
Shero likes his team, but of course if there is something to make them better he will. He doesn't see much on the market now, though.
Quote:
Dan Rosen @drosennhl
Shero did mention there are a few guys (didn't name names), but it didn't sound like he's going bonkers pursuing them now.
Those tweets were from July 9.
Ray Shero likes his team the way it is. But if he has the opportunity to improve the team he will. We already knew that because he said that.
Also says that he doesn't see much on the market. And there are a few guys he's interested in but isn't in a hurry to pursue them.
It's been almost 2 weeks since Free Agency started and people are already acting like Shero's an idiot because he cleared cap space. He can't force big name free agents to come here or force a team to trade a top 6 winger to us.
Let Ray Shero do his job. People can say "make a trade!" or "sign this guy!" it's easier said than done.
What do you mean they don't have the assets to get the winger they need? Have you seen the endless depth that we have in defense?
Why do you think Shero keeps on taking blue chip defensemen, when he should (according to armchair GMs) be taking Filip Forsberg or some other winger? Sign up a stable of stud d-men and then trade them for what you need. It's the same as stockpiling pitchers for a baseball team.
We may not have exactly what Anaheim or Columbus want for Ryan or Nash, but who's to say that Shero is even talking to them about either of those guys? Just because random Twitter garbage has us sort of linked to Nash doesn't mean anything.
How often has Shero surprised us all and grabbed someone that nobody even knew was available? How about always...
Relax brother, he knows what he's doing.
Do you not understand that for those D prospects to have enough value to get a 30 goal scorer they have to actually play in the NHL first? You do know that both Whit and Gogo played years in the NHL before being turned into a quality winger?
People really need to take a good long look at those trade before just assuming that Shero's gonna be able to turn everyone of these D prospects into a top 6 winger. Just be cause he made two good trades doesn't mean he's gonna. Be able to do it every other year.
Plus with him tradin for every top winger they miss out on havin a player in the top 6 on their ELC. Three years of Fors for unde a mill would be huge. But hey Shero can just trade a D man for Fors just in time for his raise!
Do you not understand that for those D prospects to have enough value to get a 30 goal scorer they have to actually play in the NHL first? You do know that both Whit and Gogo played years in the NHL before being turned into a quality winger?
People really need to take a good long look at those trade before just assuming that Shero's gonna be able to turn everyone of these D prospects into a top 6 winger. Just be cause he made two good trades doesn't mean he's gonna. Be able to do it every other year.
Ya, we don't have the assets to make those big trades right now. In a year or two, these same guys could be worth gold though. The ones that get to see NHL time that is. Pouliot may allow us to trade for a winger some day without being traded himself. We don't make the Whitney-Kunitz trade without Letang to fill in his spot. We didn't have an immediate replacement for Goligoski, but we had guys in the system on their way up and Shero made sure to get Niskanen as a temporary replacement in the meantime. Maybe Dumoulin lets us trade Orpik. Maybe Morrow lets us trade Martin. Then maybe Maatta lets us trade Despres and Pouliot lets us make a blockbuster with Letang.
Obviously that's all very ideal scenario stuff and isn't going to happen quite like that. But I think you get the point of it.
Would I like a top forward prospect? Sure I would. But I can see the value in what we are doing too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner
Plus with him tradin for every top winger they miss out on havin a player in the top 6 on their ELC. Three years of Fors for unde a mill would be huge. But hey Shero can just trade a D man for Fors just in time for his raise!
But we can have players in our top 4 D on their ELC. 3 years of Morrow and Despres for under a mil will be huge too. We should be able to have 1 or 2 good D-men on the cheap for quite a long time at this point.
I would love to get Kyle Okposo, but if the Islanders trade him they'd be nuts after losing Parenteau. Sure, Brad Boyes or Nino Niederreiter (or Kirill Kabanov even) may step up, but it's a huge if at this point. I would think the Islanders are tired of being everybody's doormat. They are improving. Dealing Okposo now just sets them back. Makes no sense for them.
We either have to make a small deal for a young winger who may be had, or we need to go big for a Nash. Forget Ryan, we don't have the center Anaheim wants (well, we have 2 but yeah we're not dealing them).
I was totally against the Nash option, but seeing as how this market has gone completely out of whack, maybe we should go for it. I mean if Shane Doan is being offered $7.5 million!
Once Semin signs with CSKA Moscow, and Doan signs with one of the Western Canadian teams, we'll be officially left with two options: young up-and-coming winger via trade, or all in for Rick Nash.
Someone mentioned a trade like Kennedy+D for a struggling top-6.
How about Kennedy, Lovejoy, 1st for Okposo and a 3rd? I like Okposo. He would fit in well here, and the Isles are not impressed with his past season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Barr
I've been pining for Okposo for quote some time... Dunno about that 1st round pick though.
Make it happen, Ray!
I think Okposo would be a good fit, and I’d feel the same way about being hesitant on the 1st…maybe swapping a 2nd for the 1st and making the draft pick coming back higher…or maybe just adding a better defensive player if Lovejoy doesn’t have enough value. A lot of my previous free agent suggestions involved making a trade for him. But if Pit was able to make that trade and possibly sign Semin (assuming $6m), that’d be a top six of Neal-Malkin-Okposo, Semin-Crosby-Kunitz…all else being equal and keeping a full 23 man roster, that’d be around 2.3m under the cap...not too shabby. All wishing aside, I don’t think the Islanders are as low on Okposo as some might like to think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla
Ya, we don't have the assets to make those big trades right now. In a year or two, these same guys could be worth gold though. The ones that get to see NHL time that is. Pouliot may allow us to trade for a winger some day without being traded himself. We don't make the Whitney-Kunitz trade without Letang to fill in his spot. We didn't have an immediate replacement for Goligoski, but we had guys in the system on their way up and Shero made sure to get Niskanen as a temporary replacement in the meantime. Maybe Dumoulin lets us trade Orpik. Maybe Morrow lets us trade Martin. Then maybe Maatta lets us trade Despres and Pouliot lets us make a blockbuster with Letang.
Obviously that's all very ideal scenario stuff and isn't going to happen quite like that. But I think you get the point of it.
Would I like a top forward prospect? Sure I would. But I can see the value in what we are doing too.
But we can have players in our top 4 D on their ELC. 3 years of Morrow and Despres for under a mil will be huge too. We should be able to have 1 or 2 good D-men on the cheap for quite a long time at this point.
I agree with what you're saying for the most part: better young prospects aren't necessarily the trade bait, but the variable that allows for the proven defensemen to be shipped for higher returns, as the young players step in. However, I think a GM would walk a thin line of doing what's best for the team on paper, and going full Holmgren. It might be a blow to morale to feel as though you could spend 5 or 6 years of your life in an organization, improving and growing with each year, only to be shipped out down the line when forwards are needed to be brought in. And if Letang is traded I will just probably throw a tantrum.
Last edited by Rocket of Russia: 07-14-2012 at 11:59 AM.
I agree with what you're saying for the most part: better young prospects aren't necessarily the trade bait, but the variable that allows for the proven defensemen to be shipped for higher returns, as the young players step in. However, I think a GM would walk a thin line of doing what's best for the team on paper, and going full Holmgren. It might be a blow to morale to feel as though you could spend 5 or 6 years of your life in an organization, improving and growing with each year, only to be shipped out down the line when forwards are needed to be brought in. And if Letang is traded I will just probably throw a tantrum.
Yeah, I agree: Letang better not be going anywhere. He is a franchise defenseman, and as much as I love our overall defensive depth & variety of players with different skill-sets, none of these guys (at this point) project to be the kind of elite, #1 Dmen & perrenial Norris candidate that Letang could be, to say nothing of the intangibles that Kris brings in terms of leadership, character, desire to win, etc. He'll be the one "veteran" that we'll keep around and will always mentor and help the young guys coming through the pipeline.
ya I'm not saying we should do it that many times. Just making the general point. In theory, we won't need to keep bringing in new wings forever right? If we can get one more 30 goal scorer and one more 40-50 point mucker ala Kunitz I'll be perfectly content with out wing situation.
I'll be the first to admit that ELC's for Despres and Morrow are gonna rock! I'm sure we will be able to same the same for the like of Dumoulin and Harrington too. They will allow us to make those trades later for guys like Orpik and Martin...but when those guys are ready to be traded...who are the targets gonna be? I don't think we can get a Neal in every trade and have it work like it did.
Not only that but we are a couple years away from having these prospects be valuable enough to trade. Those couple years...are Sid's and Geno's prime and we are pissing them away.
I hate the "I like my roster" crap Shero feeds us. Guess what...you aren't gonna like it forever! Can't always solve every problem with a trade or signing. Look at the better players in the league...the vast majority were drafted by that team.
To Shero's credit, there was no way he could know he would miss out on both Parise and Suter...he made the moves to plan for it and it didn't work out. **** happens. I get that. But having such limited back up available in terms of forward prospects...is still troubling to me.
I'd much rather have an immediate option at forward...rather than a d prospect with the hope of trading him.
ETA: I'm just frustrated with the off season and how its gone for us. I see major gaps in the wing position. 2 noticeably...1 for absolute sure.
A top end rookie forward would be very valuable for us right now. I'm worried we are going to end up with a second winger like Satan or Sykora for the Top 6.
Looking back, in 09 our top six looked like:
Feds - Crosby - Satan
Cooke - Malkin - Sykora
for the majority of the season...so I guess it could be worse. The problem is...other teams are getting better. The Bruins, Rangers, Flyers...they're no joke. And the Rangers are looking to pick up Nash. We need to build a roster thats gonna compete and have the chance to win.
Be interesting to see what kind of trade deadline deals are out there.
Course this could all be solved if we picked up Doan and/or (hopefully and) Semin.
I'll be the first to admit that ELC's for Despres and Morrow are gonna rock! I'm sure we will be able to same the same for the like of Dumoulin and Harrington too. They will allow us to make those trades later for guys like Orpik and Martin...but when those guys are ready to be traded...who are the targets gonna be? I don't think we can get a Neal in every trade and have it work like it did.
Not only that but we are a couple years away from having these prospects be valuable enough to trade. Those couple years...are Sid's and Geno's prime and we are pissing them away.
I hate the "I like my roster" crap Shero feeds us. Guess what...you aren't gonna like it forever! Can't always solve every problem with a trade or signing. Look at the better players in the league...the vast majority were drafted by that team.
To Shero's credit, there was no way he could know he would miss out on both Parise and Suter...he made the moves to plan for it and it didn't work out. **** happens. I get that. But having such limited back up available in terms of forward prospects...is still troubling to me.
I'd much rather have an immediate option at forward...rather than a d prospect with the hope of trading him.
Short of trading up for Yakapov, that was no an option at the draft. At best we were getting someone that might possibly compete for a spot next year. More likely he'd actually have a chance to make the team the year after.
ya I'm not saying we should do it that many times. Just making the general point. In theory, we won't need to keep bringing in new wings forever right? If we can get one more 30 goal scorer and one more 40-50 point mucker ala Kunitz I'll be perfectly content with out wing situation.
Exactly. I think we simply need ONE, immediate, and hopefully long-term guy to fill the first-line wing role. Shero knows that, too, and that's why he went after Parise.
We will have Kunitz for another two years, and I'm expecting that at least Dupuis and possibly also Cooke re-sign, and I also believe we'll re-sign Kennedy, unless he's moved as part of a deal to land an elite guy.
With Bennett probably only 1 year away, guys like Kuhnhackl & Hanowski possibly pushing for jobs in 2 years, and Archibald, Agostino, Wilson & Marcantuoni over the next 2 to 3 years, we have a lot of guys coming through the pipeline that could be really, really good complimentary players (along with Tangardi & Jeffrey right now).
I think all we need is that one player now who can be Crosby's "Neal", and together comprise 2/3rds of a really good top-line. All the remaining spots will be able to be filled internally from the players we have coming through our system.
Exactly. I think we simply need ONE, immediate, and hopefully long-term guy to fill the first-line wing role. Shero knows that, too, and that's why he went after Parise.
We will have Kunitz for another two years, and I'm expecting that at least Dupuis and possibly also Cooke re-sign, and I also believe we'll re-sign Kennedy, unless he's moved as part of a deal to land an elite guy.
With Bennett probably only 1 year away, guys like Kuhnhackl & Hanowski possibly pushing for jobs in 2 years, and Archibald, Agostino, Wilson & Marcantuoni over the next 2 to 3 years, we have a lot of guys coming through the pipeline that could be really, really good complimentary players (along with Tangardi & Jeffrey right now).
I think all we need is that one player now who can be Crosby's "Neal", and together comprise 2/3rds of a really good top-line. All the remaining spots will be able to be filled internally from the players we have coming through our system.
Absolutely agree as well. Problem is...where is that winger going to come from? FA's are slim unless you consider Doan or Semin. And I honestly do not think we have the assets to make a trade.
A top 4 dman and Staal were our best tradable assets...and we ultimately got little for them. Sutter is awesome yes, and Dumoulin and Puliot are gonna be valuable in a couple years....but the Michalek trade hurt us...and hurt us bad. Unless someone thinks there was another stud in camp that can take Top 4 minutes outside of Despres...
Letang-Despres
Orpik-Martin
Niskanen-Engo
One of Orpik or Martin could be expendable...
Letang-Despres
Orpik-Niskanen
Strait-Engo
Perhaps? Martin + TK + whatever for a wing. Setoguchi?
Absolutely agree as well. Problem is...where is that winger going to come from? FA's are slim unless you consider Doan or Semin. And I honestly do not think we have the assets to make a trade.
A top 4 dman and Staal were our best tradable assets...and we ultimately got little for them. Sutter is awesome yes, and Dumoulin and Puliot are gonna be valuable in a couple years....but the Michalek trade hurt us...and hurt us bad. Unless someone thinks there was another stud in camp that can take Top 4 minutes outside of Despres...
Letang-Despres
Orpik-Martin
Niskanen-Engo
One of Orpik or Martin could be expendable...
Letang-Despres
Orpik-Niskanen
Strait-Engo
Perhaps? Martin + TK + whatever for a wing. Setoguchi?
I have no idea. It might come tomorrow, at mid-season, at the deadline or next off-season. I'd rather him be patient and get the right guy than panic.
And honestly, if Despres can actually play well enough to keep that spot with Letang I really like the rest of that defense.
I have no idea. It might come tomorrow, at mid-season, at the deadline or next off-season. I'd rather him be patient and get the right guy than panic.
And honestly, if Despres can actually play well enough to keep that spot with Letang I really like the rest of that defense.
I'm gonna venture the guess that the pairings will be switched up regularly, even in game.
Not only that but there are injuries all the time. Pairing will change but I would love if Despres was able to get some time on the top pairing. No better place to learn than with Letang in the fire.
What are the thoughts on Dumoulin coming from the camp?
I'm gonna venture the guess that the pairings will be switched up regularly, even in game.
Not only that but there are injuries all the time. Pairing will change but I would love if Despres was able to get some time on the top pairing. No better place to learn than with Letang in the fire.
What are the thoughts on Dumoulin coming from the camp?
I think either Dumoulin or Morrow could have very positive impacts if they get the chance to play up. Barring several injuries though, I don't think that will happen much.
If Howson wanted Semin, he'd make him an offer. He's $13M under the cap and Semin obviously isn't getting big numbers thrown at him or he would've signed by now.
As for Dumoulin and Morrow, I think they'll both get limited appearances this year as injury call up guys, IF we carry 7. If we carry 8 you're not going to see either one except in pre-season, unless 3D get hurt at the same time.
If Howson wanted Semin, he'd make him an offer. He's $13M under the cap and Semin obviously isn't getting big numbers thrown at him or he would've signed by now.
As for Dumoulin and Morrow, I think they'll both get limited appearances this year as injury call up guys, IF we carry 7. If we carry 8 you're not going to see either one except in pre-season, unless 3D get hurt at the same time.
Absolutely agree as well. Problem is...where is that winger going to come from? FA's are slim unless you consider Doan or Semin. And I honestly do not think we have the assets to make a trade.
A top 4 dman and Staal were our best tradable assets...and we ultimately got little for them. Sutter is awesome yes, and Dumoulin and Puliot are gonna be valuable in a couple years....but the Michalek trade hurt us...and hurt us bad. Unless someone thinks there was another stud in camp that can take Top 4 minutes outside of Despres...
Letang-Despres
Orpik-Martin
Niskanen-Engo
One of Orpik or Martin could be expendable...
Letang-Despres
Orpik-Niskanen
Strait-Engo
Perhaps? Martin + TK + whatever for a wing. Setoguchi?
Only way Martin or Niskanen get moved is if Shero has had a chance to really watch Strait, Bort, Despres and possibly Dumoulin. Those are all 20min guys and he'd have to be damn confident in a young D stepping up to move one.
I don't think Morrow gets much of a chance unless Letang gets hurt. Same goes for Dumoulin. We'd have to have a few injuries before he gets much of a shot.
Only way Orpik goes is if another physical D comes back (same trade, or another trade). Would still love to get Hejda.
The unfortunate part of having a lot of D is that there's only 6-7 roster spots for them, and developing them is a *****. At least for a contending team. There's times I wish we had the option of making a few trades, and dressing Dumoulin, Despres, Strait and having Bort as the 7th guy. And while I still think we'd make the playoffs, I don't think we'd go very far...
