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Old
07-14-2012, 06:37 PM
  #26
Fallschirmyager
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Dont be dumb. We all know how good he was before he became an injury problem. No interest in paying him 6 mil a year to sit in a press box.
Except he's healthy now with a full off season to train. No lingering issues from the concussion and the hernia repair was a success. The Ranger series showed he was getting his legs back to normal when they were sent home. A new coach and system could make him that 60+ pt dman again.

Wildcat. Ryan isn't the player he was 2 years ago. Ryan only had 57 pts in 82 games last year. What's the reason for his drop in totals? That's not worth the package asked.

Who got "fleeced" in this deal hinges totally on whether Green is healthy and back to form because the 60+ pt Green is more valuable then the 60+ Ryan.

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07-14-2012, 06:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
Caps fans, can we stop including Green in proposals for a while? No one on the main boards offers anything close to his real value and he has a lot of vocal, misinformed haters.
He can't stay healthy for 5 minutes and his goal scoring came back to earth the last time he was healthy because he doesn't get the freebie backdoor goal on the PP anymore. He also disappears in the playoffs. For $5+ million. What value?

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Old
07-14-2012, 06:52 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Caps fans don't seem to realize Green has similar value in other peoples eyes to Hemsky and Markov. They all can be great players and amazing assets to have. They all have salary and health issues for how often they have played as of late. No team is willing to give up high quality assets to get them so their trade value is not going to be nearly as much as the team that has them.
Incorrect. We are aware that there is the perception of damaged goods along with he's not a defensman and he a defensive liability among the fan of other teams. However, by the end of the Rags series he started getting his skating legs back and looked like the old Green. His value to the CAPS far outweighs what Ryan would bring. There is that gamble that he won't return to form but Ryan alone isn't enough to make me trade Green let alone ask me to add to it. The down side is Green flops and I can't get a bucket of grits for him.

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07-14-2012, 07:42 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
Except he's healthy now with a full off season to train. No lingering issues from the concussion and the hernia repair was a success. The Ranger series showed he was getting his legs back to normal when they were sent home. A new coach and system could make him that 60+ pt dman again.

Wildcat. Ryan isn't the player he was 2 years ago. Ryan only had 57 pts in 82 games last year. What's the reason for his drop in totals? That's not worth the package asked.

Who got "fleeced" in this deal hinges totally on whether Green is healthy and back to form because the 60+ pt Green is more valuable then the 60+ Ryan.
Yet another fan from another team trying to tell us how bad Ryan is and how he will never be the same. Fine then. We will keep him.

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07-14-2012, 09:39 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Yet another fan from another team trying to tell us how bad Ryan is and how he will never be the same. Fine then. We will keep him.
Kind of like everyone is doing with Green huh?

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07-14-2012, 10:28 PM
  #31
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It's really hard for the Caps to trade Green now. Everyone knows he is currently damaged goods, and that he may or may not bounce back. If the Caps dangle him, it's a huge red flag that they think he won't bounce back. Why else take 50 cents on the dollar? And even if some team were willing to take the gamble and seek out Green in a trade, unless the Caps think he's cooked, do the Caps really want to get so little back for a guy who was so recently a 2-time Norris finalist?

The Caps probably need to let it ride this season and just see how much Green has left.

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Old
07-14-2012, 10:39 PM
  #32
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So Mark Gandler not only represents Alex Semin, but he's now posting on the HF boards.
Gotta be the most annoying fad on hfboards

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07-14-2012, 11:15 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
Except he's healthy now with a full off season to train. No lingering issues from the concussion and the hernia repair was a success. The Ranger series showed he was getting his legs back to normal when they were sent home. A new coach and system could make him that 60+ pt dman again.

Wildcat. Ryan isn't the player he was 2 years ago. Ryan only had 57 pts in 82 games last year. What's the reason for his drop in totals? That's not worth the package asked.

Who got "fleeced" in this deal hinges totally on whether Green is healthy and back to form because the 60+ pt Green is more valuable then the 60+ Ryan.
Thanks for clearing that up, I'd love to hear any sort of insight or reasoning you have for this. It's always refreshing when other fans tell us about how Ryan is no longer any good and is extremely overrated yet the ridiculous offers keep on coming. And you're saying Ryan isn't the player he was two years ago, meanwhile trying to sell us on Green?

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07-15-2012, 12:24 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
Kind of like everyone is doing with Green huh?
Being injured is not an opinion, it is a fact. Green has been hurt. The Ducks cannot pay someone 6 mil+ to sit in a press box.

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07-15-2012, 02:06 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by gliff View Post
Being injured is not an opinion, it is a fact. Green has been hurt. The Ducks cannot pay someone 6 mil+ to sit in a press box.
This may surprise you, but the term injury actually covers a broad range of ailments. Please tell me which of Green's injuries will continue to nag him and/or permanently affect his quality of play. Note, this will require you to do some actual research into the player you're making claims about.

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07-15-2012, 03:32 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
This may surprise you, but the term injury actually covers a broad range of ailments. Please tell me which of Green's injuries will continue to nag him and/or permanently affect his quality of play. Note, this will require you to do some actual research into the player you're making claims about.
How about this one from 1/8/12?

Quote:
One week before Mike Green returned to the Washington Capitals’ lineup after missing 23 consecutive games with a strained right groin muscle, he admitted that it could be the type of injury that could follow him for the rest of his career.

“I think I’m going to have to be cognizant of this for the rest of my career, probably,” Green said December 27. “It’s something you’ve got to take care of, especially with hockey. It’s such a common thing. It’s just maintenance right now, making sure I’m on top of my stuff and getting better. I don’t think I’ll be 100 percent for a long time, I’ve just got to get to that stage where I can play.”

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Old
07-15-2012, 06:54 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SinfulCobraZ View Post
Currently, Sedin > Ryan.

Future, Ryan > Sedin.

Simply put, Sedin is at the end of his prime and he could very well still win one more Art Ross however a GM must consider the future and in that case, most GMs would pick Ryan over Sedin.
This is true to an extent, but I suppose the Sedins would retire rather than being forced into retirement, meaning that they probably will maintain to produce sufficiently as long as they are still playing.

If you had named a player on your own team, you could make this argument and no one would be calling you out. But with you specifically choosing the Sedins, yeah, you knew you'd get flamed. It's nothing against you, but next time, smarten up!

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07-15-2012, 07:38 AM
  #38
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Well since Green is the first player to never recover from an injury in the history of sports...maybe we should trade for that damaged goods Crosby then.

Calling me dumb for pointing out a clear stat. Ok. Green is an awesome hockey player and the prices for high end pmd are astronomical. Good luck ducks,because I see the same lottery team only with a year older Selanne and Koivu. I hope Etem lights it up like he did in the Whl.

Is it dumb of me to assume the ducks will be as bad next year? Who are your centers after Gets becomes a ufa? Speaking of him..im assuming he forgot how to score as well. Maybe its better to be injured and not produce then to be overrated and suck.

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07-15-2012, 08:03 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by rubynj View Post
Well since Green is the first player to never recover from an injury in the history of sports...maybe we should trade for that damaged goods Crosby then.

Calling me dumb for pointing out a clear stat. Ok. Green is an awesome hockey player and the prices for high end pmd are astronomical. Good luck ducks,because I see the same lottery team only with a year older Selanne and Koivu. I hope Etem lights it up like he did in the Whl.

Is it dumb of me to assume the ducks will be as bad next year? Who are your centers after Gets becomes a ufa? Speaking of him..im assuming he forgot how to score as well. Maybe its better to be injured and not produce then to be overrated and suck.
Well, this thread is going places.

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07-15-2012, 08:04 AM
  #40
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Anaheim's going to be demand Kunznetov back from Washington methinks if they move Bobby Ryan to Washington.

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07-15-2012, 09:03 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by teemuselanne View Post
Thanks for clearing that up, I'd love to hear any sort of insight or reasoning you have for this. It's always refreshing when other fans tell us about how Ryan is no longer any good and is extremely overrated yet the ridiculous offers keep on coming. And you're saying Ryan isn't the player he was two years ago, meanwhile trying to sell us on Green?
I was responding to the person who thinks that a 27 yr old who has had 2 injury plagued seasons has no chance of returning to form. If green is only as good as his last two injury plagued seasons then Ryan is only a 57 pt forward which isn't worth that package. Picking and choosing arbitrary points makes a weak argument. I don't think Ryan is a bad player and would probably do quite well on the CAPS.

I'm not selling anyone on Green. I'm saying he may finally be healthy and if so his value to the CAPS far exceeds the value that Ryan might. Because of the perception of damaged goods there is no chance what so ever that the CAPS could get fair value for him to the better gamble is to keep him and hope the surgery worked.


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Being injured is not an opinion, it is a fact. Green has been hurt. The Ducks cannot pay someone 6 mil+ to sit in a press box.
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
except that green had the hernia surgery this year and it was called a complete success. Briere had the same thing done. You could see by the end of the rangers series he had the explosiveness in his stride again. As I've mentioned, It makes no sense to trade Green when his value to both the team and trade value might go up. If he can't stay healthy then we lose the bet. If he can and returns to the 70 pt form then Ryan alone wouldn't get the conversation going.

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Old
07-15-2012, 09:08 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
That was before Green's sports hernia diagnosis and his surgery. I'm on my iPhone so I can't give you the link, but look up an article where Danny Briere is being interviewed about Green's injury. He had the same injury and surgery, and said that while it has a long recovery period, it is a 100% fix and he no longer has groin problems.

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Old
07-15-2012, 09:57 AM
  #43
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Well since Green is the first player to never recover from an injury in the history of sports...maybe we should trade for that damaged goods Crosby then.

Calling me dumb for pointing out a clear stat. Ok. Green is an awesome hockey player and the prices for high end pmd are astronomical. Good luck ducks,because I see the same lottery team only with a year older Selanne and Koivu. I hope Etem lights it up like he did in the Whl.

Is it dumb of me to assume the ducks will be as bad next year? Who are your centers after Gets becomes a ufa? Speaking of him..im assuming he forgot how to score as well. Maybe its better to be injured and not produce then to be overrated and suck.
You nailed it, your post is very dumb

And FTR, not going to comment on Green, do think he's a good defenceman, but would be worried about acquiring him as a center piece for a big trade at this moment in time.

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07-15-2012, 10:12 AM
  #44
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You nailed it, your post is very dumb

And FTR, not going to comment on Green, do think he's a good defenceman, but would be worried about acquiring him as a center piece for a big trade at this moment in time.
That I understand. No need to call names when its clear I know hockey. Call me dumb and I raise actual hockey questions. Then duck fans come in adding nothing to the discussion other than attacking me.

A poster called ME dumb. I just insulted your TEAM. There is a difference.

I dont think its dumb at all to say when you have the recent cup champs in your division..who have an awesome keeper. Then my stat that Greens career high in goals is better than your best producing defender whom you think is a stud career high in assists.

Then when you talk about Greens accolades...big deal he got hurt. Shall I start listing players to come back fine from injuries?even his particular injury? Come on now...its an excuse for posters to try and get him on the cheap. Why can Crosby be expected to not only return to form but any other player can not? Remember Koivu missed alot of time from cancer?

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07-15-2012, 10:19 AM
  #45
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Green looked fine in the playoffs. Guess the ducks were too busy harassing golfers to notice.

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07-15-2012, 10:31 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by rubynj View Post
That I understand. No need to call names when its clear I know hockey. Call me dumb and I raise actual hockey questions. Then duck fans come in adding nothing to the discussion other than attacking me.

A poster called ME dumb. I just insulted your TEAM. There is a difference.

I dont think its dumb at all to say when you have the recent cup champs in your division..who have an awesome keeper. Then my stat that Greens career high in goals is better than your best producing defender whom you think is a stud career high in assists.

Then when you talk about Greens accolades...big deal he got hurt. Shall I start listing players to come back fine from injuries?even his particular injury? Come on now...its an excuse for posters to try and get him on the cheap. Why can Crosby be expected to not only return to form but any other player can not? Remember Koivu missed alot of time from cancer?
Would you trade away one of your top players in a deal for a defenceman, while when healthy is a very good defenceman, has played just 81 games in the last 2 seasons? Specially for a budget team.

Ducks aren't in a position to pay the salary and wait and see how he goes coming back from injury, even if he had a solid playoffs [a small sample size] If Green gets back to his best post injury great, but Anaheim can't take the financial risk of whether this happens or not, specially when it involves trading away one of our top wingers.

But either way, Mike Green isn't a need right now for Anaheim, our backend is set at this moment in time and we have several younger players coming up who hopefully will be very good down the road as well, thus making Green not a crucial need for Anaheim.

The whole point of trading Ryan would be to acquire multiple top 6 forward, or potential top 6 forward assets so we can spread the offence in the lineup, not a acquire a top PMD who at this moment has injury issues.

No team will give out what you would want for Green at this time, it's a silly time to expect big, big assets for him anyway when he's just coming back off injury, his value is 'lower' to other teams at this stage due to the injury history, but obviously his value would be higher to the Caps, and lets be honest, they would be dumb to trade him when his value is at his lowest.

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Old
07-15-2012, 10:32 AM
  #47
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Green looked fine in the playoffs. Guess the ducks were too busy harassing golfers to notice.
Stop being so bitter, it's rather embarrassing for your fellow Cap fans

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07-15-2012, 12:38 PM
  #48
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That was before Green's sports hernia diagnosis and his surgery. I'm on my iPhone so I can't give you the link, but look up an article where Danny Briere is being interviewed about Green's injury. He had the same injury and surgery, and said that while it has a long recovery period, it is a 100% fix and he no longer has groin problems.
This article?

http://www.csnwashington.com/blog/ca...blockID=634480

Quote:
Briere said he was told after his first surgery, which was performed by Montreal Canadiens team physician David Mulder, that there was a possibility he would need surgery to repair his left abdominal wall sometime in the future.

“He told me, ‘Now that you have one side tightened up and strengthened, it might happen again on the other side,’” Briere said. “He was right.”
Quote:
Briere suffered a setback in his rehab when he needed a second surgery to free an entrapped nerve and played in only 29 games that season.
100% fix until Greene needs the other side done.

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Old
07-15-2012, 12:58 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by duckaroosky View Post
This article?

http://www.csnwashington.com/blog/ca...blockID=634480

100% fix until Greene needs the other side done.
That's just one player though. There have been more players who've had no lasting complications like Orpik, Del Zotto, Jovanovski, and Versteeg. In fact, statistically, players come back healthier than before: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...0r5P_blog.html

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07-15-2012, 01:27 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Zoidberg Jesus View Post
That's just one player though. There have been more players who've had no lasting complications like Orpik, Del Zotto, Jovanovski, and Versteeg. In fact, statistically, players come back healthier than before: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...0r5P_blog.html
That's a horrible article... those numbers have no meaning statistically speaking. It gives no information as to severity of the injuries or if they are even similar injuries to Green's. The guy is basically pulling up some random numbers and putting together a fancy chart (why choose the 82-83 season as a base point?, 13 players is hardly a decent number to show a statistical trend and why only show the year before and year after... what long term ramifications did the injury cause? AND more importantly it doesn't even say they all had surgery just that they disclosed their injury)

Even if you want to use that article's numbers, they're still playing only on average (I'm assuming because he doesn't provide that information) 62 games a season after the injury. That's hardly a "full" recovery.

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