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07-16-2012, 07:41 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Durkin67 View Post
Good point. Was not aware that they didn't play one shift together all season. Surprised, TBH, as you'd think at some point they'd be out there together, maybe on the PP... What's the link to the line combos website?
I was actually wrong: they were on the same "line" (well, 4on4) in OT when Grabbo scored that amazing goal in OT to beat MTL last October (see the video above).

Again, the sample set, in my opinion, is much too small and spread over two years to conclusively say yay/nay to them playing together: both years saw lines that didn't need to be broken up (Lupul/Kessel last year at a PPG pace; Mac in the USSR putting up career points two years ago).

Here's the line combo link:
http://www.leftwinglock.com/line-combos/

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07-16-2012, 07:52 AM
  #102
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I don't see it as an issue of readiness personally... Why call up Kadri at the deadline to flounder with our sinking ship NHL team when he can stay in the minors and play for the Calder Cup?
I agree that having Kadri playing a significant role with the Marlies to finish off the year isn't the worst thing for his development.

My post was more meant to address the issue that Kadri's skillset is quite redundant with how our lineup is currently constructed because he needs to be used in an offensive role to get the most out of him. Kadri needs to have a strong camp and start to the year so that the Leafs can trade CMac who is the most replaceable guy who is an offensive role player that gets a decent amount of powerplay time.

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07-16-2012, 08:20 AM
  #103
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I agree that having Kadri playing a significant role with the Marlies to finish off the year isn't the worst thing for his development.

My post was more meant to address the issue that Kadri's skillset is quite redundant with how our lineup is currently constructed because he needs to be used in an offensive role to get the most out of him. Kadri needs to have a strong camp and start to the year so that the Leafs can trade CMac who is the most replaceable guy who is an offensive role player that gets a decent amount of powerplay time.
I completely agree if Kadri can produce better than MacArthur remove the redundant player. Kadri has to earn it though, you don't move MacArthur to clear the path for Kadri. Kadri is a decent prospect, and once he gets it I think he'll be a good top 6 forward. He is not too good for the AHL, unless we want to claim the same thing for several AHL rookies this year who produced better than he did without having any name recognition.

Let's face it Kadri is about producing points, and that's what will get him permanent employment in the NHL.

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07-16-2012, 08:40 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I completely agree if Kadri can produce better than MacArthur remove the redundant player. Kadri has to earn it though, you don't move MacArthur to clear the path for Kadri. Kadri is a decent prospect, and once he gets it I think he'll be a good top 6 forward. He is not too good for the AHL, unless we want to claim the same thing for several AHL rookies this year who produced better than he did without having any name recognition.

Let's face it Kadri is about producing points, and that's what will get him permanent employment in the NHL.
I completely agree and believe that Kadri does need to earn that spot but he didn't show enough to the Leafs brass to make them feel comfortable trading CMac the last 2 deadlines.

This season though the time has come for Kadri to make that jump and I believe he will do it. Then the Leafs can trade CMac and gain some extra assets with what CMac returns.

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07-16-2012, 09:16 AM
  #105
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Kadri is a career 4th line center on any other team but the Leafs.

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07-16-2012, 09:21 AM
  #106
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Kadri is a career 4th line center on any other team but the Leafs.
Isn't there a bridge somewhere you should be camped under?

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07-16-2012, 09:22 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
I agree that having Kadri playing a significant role with the Marlies to finish off the year isn't the worst thing for his development.

My post was more meant to address the issue that Kadri's skillset is quite redundant with how our lineup is currently constructed because he needs to be used in an offensive role to get the most out of him. Kadri needs to have a strong camp and start to the year so that the Leafs can trade CMac who is the most replaceable guy who is an offensive role player that gets a decent amount of powerplay time.
Yep, that's fair. I am a firm believer in making the kid (any player for that matter) earn his spot on the team.

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07-16-2012, 10:06 AM
  #108
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Can't wait until Kadri breaks out. Going to be fun looking back at all these threads.

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07-16-2012, 04:20 PM
  #109
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I think this is Nazems year that he breaks out. Not saying he will centre the first line but I bet he will at points in the season. Good player.

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07-16-2012, 05:43 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I completely agree if Kadri can produce better than MacArthur remove the redundant player. Kadri has to earn it though, you don't move MacArthur to clear the path for Kadri. Kadri is a decent prospect, and once he gets it I think he'll be a good top 6 forward. He is not too good for the AHL, unless we want to claim the same thing for several AHL rookies this year who produced better than he did without having any name recognition.

Let's face it Kadri is about producing points, and that's what will get him permanent employment in the NHL.
You see that's where I feel your wrong. So much when it comes to youth is about projection and the opportunity to play the role they're suited for, they're unproven when they start no matter who it is and if you believe the young player is the better one between he and Mac you move Mac that's what a proper opportunity to succeed is.

Kadri has earned it by paying his dues in the AHL and the time has come since Mac has the job that Kadri is best suited for to continue his growth and development at the NHL level it's either Kadri or Mac cause you will never know what Kadri can do if he does produce better than Mac until he plays Mac's minutes. Mac is a road block to Kadri so is Lombardi to Frattin if you want to know what you have in these kids you must remove Mac and Lombardi or trade the young players if you believe they wont grow into better players.

You've seem to not be high on Kadri and your more than entitled to have that belief but I would advise you is to not look at Kadri's stats at the moment cause as a playmaker which is what Kadri is as a player he will forever be linked to the ability of his line mates to produce numbers and that's something he has not gotten rather in the AHL or NHL.

Kadri needs support just like what Lupul gave Kessel. You wont get the best out of a Kadri until he gets proper line mates to play with him Connoly, Lombardi and even Mac don't cut it if you want to set up Kadri to succeed, JVR is a good bet or going out and getting a Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash as a line mate that's how you develop high end skilled players by insulating them with other high end players not sticking road blocks a head of them and say hey rookie you got to out produce the road block with a handicap of playing less minutes with less of talent as line mates between you and the road block.

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07-16-2012, 06:46 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
You've seem to not be high on Kadri and your more than entitled to have that belief but I would advise you is to not look at Kadri's stats at the moment cause as a playmaker which is what Kadri is as a player he will forever be linked to the ability of his line mates to produce numbers and that's something he has not gotten rather in the AHL or NHL.

Kadri needs support just like what Lupul gave Kessel. You wont get the best out of a Kadri until he gets proper line mates to play with him Connoly, Lombardi and even Mac don't cut it if you want to set up Kadri to succeed, JVR is a good bet or going out and getting a Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash as a line mate that's how you develop high end skilled players by insulating them with other high end players not sticking road blocks a head of them and say hey rookie you got to out produce the road block with a handicap of playing less minutes with less of talent as line mates between you and the road block.
Yes, I'm probably too hard on him. He was not amongst the top 1st. round players so I shouldn't hold him to too high of a standard.

You describe a complementary player so he probably needs to be a support player to better players, rather than the key player on a line to make it into the top 6.

He likely has more skill than Bozak, but may lack some of the natural leadership qualities that Bozak displays. Mind you he is younger than Bozak, and came through a different route and maybe hasn't developed that quality yet. He does remind me of a young 20 year.

Anytime you can get a top 6 forward you should be happy, so when Kadri has put it together we should see that.

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07-16-2012, 08:17 PM
  #112
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DOWN!

and when Connolly gets hurt Frattins in!
And then when we fail TOP 5 PICK! right ... right?

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07-16-2012, 08:36 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Yes, I'm probably too hard on him. He was not amongst the top 1st. round players so I shouldn't hold him to too high of a standard.

You describe a complementary player so he probably needs to be a support player to better players, rather than the key player on a line to make it into the top 6.

He likely has more skill than Bozak, but may lack some of the natural leadership qualities that Bozak displays. Mind you he is younger than Bozak, and came through a different route and maybe hasn't developed that quality yet. He does remind me of a young 20 year.

Anytime you can get a top 6 forward you should be happy, so when Kadri has put it together we should see that.
I think we the fans have been manipulated by the media with there constant story lines of putting star players on pedestals as if they carry lines when the truth is that's impossible. To have success there has to be line chemistry between a trio of players who compliment each other thus bring out the best in one another to form a line.


Hockey is a team sport and I feel Kadri has yet to play with players that compliment him and vice versa to bring the best out of him. It's flat out insane to keep MacArthur over Kadri just on pure talent alone and IMO it's stupid in Burke's part to have a talent like Kadri who's ready for the NHL, 2nd only to Kessel in the entire organization in terms of natural skill & talent and not be active to find players to support + insulate him in an effort to set him up to succeed. What he does we don't know he could end up being a guy that people view as a complementary player or he could be so much more but until this organization starts to make decisions that a young player is a piece to the puzzle and surround the young player with the help required this organization isn't developing it's youth right.

If your a smart GM you should never expect a kid to be the "KEY GUY" to a line every player needs help to be the best they can be and road blocks should be cleared the first chance you get to give the opportunity for the youngster you believe will be the better player in time.

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07-16-2012, 09:42 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by dimi78 View Post
I think we the fans have been manipulated by the media with there constant story lines of putting star players on pedestals as if they carry lines when the truth is that's impossible. To have success there has to be line chemistry between a trio of players who compliment each other thus bring out the best in one another to form a line.


Hockey is a team sport and I feel Kadri has yet to play with players that compliment him and vice versa to bring the best out of him. It's flat out insane to keep MacArthur over Kadri just on pure talent alone and IMO it's stupid in Burke's part to have a talent like Kadri who's ready for the NHL, 2nd only to Kessel in the entire organization in terms of natural skill & talent and not be active to find players to support + insulate him in an effort to set him up to succeed. What he does we don't know he could end up being a guy that people view as a complementary player or he could be so much more but until this organization starts to make decisions that a young player is a piece to the puzzle and surround the young player with the help required this organization isn't developing it's youth right.

If your a smart GM you should never expect a kid to be the "KEY GUY" to a line every player needs help to be the best they can be and road blocks should be cleared the first chance you get to give the opportunity for the youngster you believe will be the better player in time.
Everytime Kadri has been called up he's been that much more ready which shows development progress. Is it possible that your just expecting him to be ready before he actually has been ready and the Leafs brass knows more then casual fans do?

Becoming a professional isn't as easy as just being thrown in at the NHL level and given significant minutes with great linemates.

His time to make the NHL a permanent thing needs to happen soon and I'm betting Kadri will pass the test with flying colours this season. Then CMac will be shipped out of town and become a distant memory.

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07-16-2012, 10:46 PM
  #115
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a little bit far fetched to be the number one center but has a really good shot a cracking the top six

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07-17-2012, 01:02 AM
  #116
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Everytime Kadri has been called up he's been that much more ready which shows development progress. Is it possible that your just expecting him to be ready before he actually has been ready and the Leafs brass knows more then casual fans do?

Becoming a professional isn't as easy as just being thrown in at the NHL level and given significant minutes with great linemates.

His time to make the NHL a permanent thing needs to happen soon and I'm betting Kadri will pass the test with flying colours this season. Then CMac will be shipped out of town and become a distant memory.
Agreed but I also think he might have been treated a little poorly/unfairly.

I have the impression that Wilson could be unfair/harsh towards players that he puts in the dog house and never really lets them out of the dog house (i.e. Kadri and Zigomanis). Also, the more media pressure to play them.......the more he got his back up and wouldn't.

I hope that Carlyle gives him a chance and is more forgiving than Wilson. If Carlyle is as stubborn...then expect Lupul's time and numbers to fall and/or traded.


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07-25-2012, 08:23 PM
  #117
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I think this is Nazems year that he breaks out. Not saying he will centre the first line but I bet he will at points in the season. Good player.
I am not sure why people are so negative and critical of this kid - He is a highly skilled forward who can make plays at a whim in the offensive zone and is fearless on the ice which compensates for his small frame. He is still young and these type of players need some time to mature, I am sure if given a fair chance he is going to prove all his critics wrong

It's about time for youth movement - GO Leafs GO

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07-25-2012, 08:32 PM
  #118
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I am not sure why people are so negative and critical of this kid - He is a highly skilled forward who can make plays at a whim in the offensive zone and is fearless on the ice which compensates for his small frame. He is still young and these type of players need some time to mature, I am sure if given a fair chance he is going to prove all his critics wrong

It's about time for youth movement - GO Leafs GO
It isn't the fans who are saying let him develop who are treating him unfairly.

The fans who claim he's better than he is are treating NHL players unfairly by suggesting you don't have to earn your spot. Putting in time alone is not earning your spot, otherwise every AHL veteran would have earned a spot over kids good enough to make the NHL out of junior, or with only a singe year of minor league development.

Kadri, according to the experts, has not been ready. Kadri would already be in the NHL if he deserved it.

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07-25-2012, 08:39 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
It isn't the fans who are saying let him develop who are treating him unfairly.

The fans who claim he's better than he is are treating NHL players unfairly by suggesting you don't have to earn your spot. Putting in time alone is not earning your spot, otherwise every AHL veteran would have earned a spot over kids good enough to make the NHL out of junior, or with only a singe year of minor league development.

Kadri, according to the experts, has not been ready. Kadri would already be in the NHL if he deserved it.
That's debatable - he shouldn't be playing on 3rd or 4th line and I am not sure if he was given a fair chance by Wilson

What else he has to prove? - he should play significant minutes on a top line for a extended period of time (not 5 or 10 games), and that's how he is going to learn

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07-25-2012, 08:47 PM
  #120
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I hope he plays as a first line centre. I bet if he's in the AHL for the majority of one more season, he's going to file for arbitration since he's going to be an RFA. I don't want to see him go.

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07-25-2012, 08:52 PM
  #121
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I hope he plays as a first line centre. I bet if he's in the AHL for the majority of one more season, he's going to file for arbitration since he's going to be an RFA. I don't want to see him go.
Can players file for arbitration after their ELCs? And even if he can, he hasn't proven anything yet at the NHL level, so the contract awarded would most likely be heavily in our favour. That said, I definitely hope this is the year he does stick and really start making an impact on the club. I agree with you 100%, that I would hate to see him moved.

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07-25-2012, 09:43 PM
  #122
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I would say just have him sit out until the Olympics, where he should be the top centre for Team Canada. Clearly his domination of the AHL last year, and his failed stints with the Leafs prove he is ready.

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07-25-2012, 09:46 PM
  #123
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I would say just have him sit out until the Olympics, where he should be the top centre for Team Canada. Clearly his domination of the AHL last year, and his failed stints with the Leafs prove he is ready.
Maybe he's past his prime? We all know NHL players peak at 19; at 21 he should be looking at retirement plans soon. I mean, if you can't make a fully healthy roster after coming off an injury in training camp, you're pretty much a bust. Oh well. Trade him for a low first round pick and try again.

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07-25-2012, 09:50 PM
  #124
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I'm not calling him a bust, he is exactly what I thought he was.

But anyone who has seen him play, and is not 10 years old, realizes the odds of him being the #1 centre out of camp are very very slim. In fact, they are almost zero.

I dont even think its 50-50 he will ever be an NHL regular, let alone a top line centre in the NHL.

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07-25-2012, 09:58 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
It isn't the fans who are saying let him develop who are treating him unfairly.

The fans who claim he's better than he is are treating NHL players unfairly by suggesting you don't have to earn your spot. Putting in time alone is not earning your spot, otherwise every AHL veteran would have earned a spot over kids good enough to make the NHL out of junior, or with only a singe year of minor league development.

Kadri, according to the experts, has not been ready. Kadri would already be in the NHL if he deserved it.
Yep, he's gotta earn a spot just like komi and army and brent and lombo and sjostrom and wallin and primeau and gus and exelby and toskala and mayers and rosehill and lebda and dupuis earned theirs.

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