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The Lockout Thread Part I

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Old
09-06-2012, 09:21 AM
  #276
KeithBWhittington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
From Puckrakers

"One of the first moves the Blue Jackets will make on Sept. 15 – if not CBA is in place – will be to send defenseman Ryan Murray back to his junior club..."

So if he goes can he come back before his junior team is done for the season? I'm thinking not but not sure. Anyone?
If he is sent back because of no CBA, I'd hope he isn't brought back up if a deal is worked out, too much condensation of info, risky pushing a first year guy through what would be a shortened camp and an "icey" situation within the league this season. Thats risking a lot of a huge "developmental" type year for him. If he is sent down, the CBJ should do their best to forget he's even in the "system" until next year's training camp.

I'm not saying Richards and the Staff would "misuse" him this season, but I for one, was asking myself a lot last season why they didn't send Johansen back to Portland, even after I had supported him staying once his "audition" was up.

If there's no deal in place in time for camps to start, despite where I think blame lays with this labor mess, I'd consider this a lost season already.

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09-06-2012, 09:58 AM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
From Puckrakers

"One of the first moves the Blue Jackets will make on Sept. 15 – if not CBA is in place – will be to send defenseman Ryan Murray back to his junior club..."

So if he goes can he come back before his junior team is done for the season? I'm thinking not but not sure. Anyone?
It makes sense to me. Continuity is important in development. Another year in juniors is not ideal, but its better than him riding out the labor dispute/lockout, or signing with a European team.

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Old
09-06-2012, 02:20 PM
  #278
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If this is true, NBC/Comcast should be putting pressure on the league to stop this foolishness and get a contract signed:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/sport...507/story.html

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Old
09-06-2012, 04:44 PM
  #279
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From ESPN.com,

Here's a pretty good look at where things stand at the moment:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/83...te-discussions

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Old
09-10-2012, 09:45 AM
  #280
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I'm annoyed. HTF do you get a deal done when you meet once a week or so and trade very dissimilar proposals back and forth. It seems like it is something akin to having conversations with some members of this board-

As far as I can tell, one side says this is our deal and the other says well, this is ours with no attempt to sit down and iron out the differences. Or at least get on the same page so some progress could be made.

I think the owners have wanted a lockout from day 1 and are going to have one, come hell or high water. When it happens, I'm thinking they would not settle until Thanksgiving at the earliest, to coincide with the beginning of the national NBC TV coverage.

Lots of problems with the way things are now;hopefully they can get it straightened out once and for all to keep this bs from happening again.


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Old
09-10-2012, 10:03 AM
  #281
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Espen, this is probably the most frustrating part of these issues. It generally comes down to who blinks first. They don't get into serious negotiations until paychecks are affected.

Frankly as an owner or a player, I would want to pick my battles and avoid a lock out or strike. But rarely either side really wants that.

The only way this wasn't going to go to a lockout was if one side caved. Neither side was going to give up anything resembling a real concession.

No part of this has been productive to this point, beyond posturing. I giggled when my rep left a couple of messages about picking my games (half season). I haven't bothered to call them back. That was like two weeks ago. I say the odds of the All-Star game occurring are down to under 25% now. The odds of a full season (82 games) is probably under 50% now. I see nothing to indicate there is any serious negotiations going to happen in the near future.

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Old
09-10-2012, 10:14 AM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Here's a pretty good look at where things stand at the moment:

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/83...te-discussions
Thanks, not a bad article.

This comes down to.

The NHLPA doesn't want the higher revenue teams keeping profits (same old, same old with every union every created). The higher revenue teams don't want to share more of that revenue with smaller markets. The higher revenue team generally don't want to keep the profits, they don't mind spending it but are impeded with the salary cap.

Little consideration is given to an even playing field for all markets. (Large markets and players union). The owners are fighting with other owners. The union is just as, if even more greedy, than the supposed evil owners.

From my perspective. 57% of revenue is idiotic even with revenue sharing.

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Old
09-10-2012, 10:59 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Thanks, not a bad article.

This comes down to.

The NHLPA doesn't want the higher revenue teams keeping profits (same old, same old with every union every created). The higher revenue teams don't want to share more of that revenue with smaller markets. The higher revenue team generally don't want to keep the profits, they don't mind spending it but are impeded with the salary cap.

Little consideration is given to an even playing field for all markets. (Large markets and players union). The owners are fighting with other owners. The union is just as, if even more greedy, than the supposed evil owners.

From my perspective. 57% of revenue is idiotic even with revenue sharing.
True dat.

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Old
09-10-2012, 12:14 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
From my perspective. 57% of revenue is idiotic even with revenue sharing.
However an approx 50-50 split with increased revenue sharing would be optimal for the CBJ. I dont expect guys like Jacobs, Snider, Leipold and others to care if increased revenue sharing is good for Columbus and other small market cities.

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Old
09-10-2012, 12:22 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
However an approx 50-50 split with increased revenue sharing would be optimal for the CBJ. I dont expect guys like Jacobs, Snider, Leipold and others to care if increased revenue sharing is good for Columbus and other small market cities.
This an issue WRT many post-modern "labor" issues within pro sports leagues. How important/valuable do large-revenue ownership groups view lower-revenue ownership groups - or, to simplify, how badly do the Dallas Cowboys/LA Dodgers/Montreal Canadiens want to have teams like the Jacksonville Jaguars/Kansas City Royals/Columbus Blue Jackets in their leagues? I see the benefit from the players' side (more jobs), but would any of the owners you reference weep if 4-6 other franchises just went away? Is there enough incentive to keep subsidizing other franchises?

I know we've had relocation rather than contraction, but why? Is there a point of diminishing return to having additional markets participate in your league?

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Old
09-10-2012, 12:44 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
but would any of the owners you reference weep if 4-6 other franchises just went away? Is there enough incentive to keep subsidizing other franchises?

I know we've had relocation rather than contraction, but why? Is there a point of diminishing return to having additional markets participate in your league?
The short answer is no, I dont believe these owners would care if the CBJ would cease to exist. I'm sure these owners would prefer a few more home games against teams that draw fans.

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Old
09-10-2012, 12:44 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
However an approx 50-50 split with increased revenue sharing would be optimal for the CBJ. I dont expect guys like Jacobs, Snider, Leipold and others to care if increased revenue sharing is good for Columbus and other small market cities.
Go tell your CEO that a 50/50 revenue split is appropriate (hell just tell him that 1% would work) for your group. See how long it takes before you get laughed out of his office.

I understand this is entertainment, but it's bad business. Very bad. They (owners and players) live in a totally different world than we do.

This is not totally the players fault, but they do hold some responsibility. A great deal actually. Sports is a garbage business and I'm getting really close to saying the hell with all of it. I've all but abandoned everything but the NHL. I'm getting tired of dropping over $50 a night (for myself) for this. The owners don't treat it like a business (at least the large markets don't) and the players union is just a collection of thugs trying to **** the owners for every last buck.

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Old
09-10-2012, 02:46 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
From Puckrakers

"One of the first moves the Blue Jackets will make on Sept. 15 – if not CBA is in place – will be to send defenseman Ryan Murray back to his junior club..."

So if he goes can he come back before his junior team is done for the season? I'm thinking not but not sure. Anyone?
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404834
Quote:
Despite concerns from his representative, Blue Jackets second overall pick Ryan Murray will report to the WHL's Everett Silvertips as early as Thursday.

Murray's agent Rick Valette is concerned that if there is an NHL lockout that lasts several months, when and if the NHL season does begin, Murray will not be allowed to join the Blue Jackets.

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Old
09-10-2012, 04:45 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Go tell your CEO that a 50/50 revenue split is appropriate (hell just tell him that 1% would work) for your group. See how long it takes before you get laughed out of his office.

I understand this is entertainment, but it's bad business. Very bad. They (owners and players) live in a totally different world than we do.

This is not totally the players fault, but they do hold some responsibility. A great deal actually. Sports is a garbage business and I'm getting really close to saying the hell with all of it. I've all but abandoned everything but the NHL. I'm getting tired of dropping over $50 a night (for myself) for this. The owners don't treat it like a business (at least the large markets don't) and the players union is just a collection of thugs trying to **** the owners for every last buck.
Completely different situation. To compare manufacturing vs sports entertainment isnt even worth the effort. Of course our owner would laugh me out of his office, I don't have world class elite talent, and he could get a 22 year old college grad to do my job for almost 50% less then he pays me.

As to your last paragraph, I believe the owners hold the most responsibility. Snider makes an offer that brings Nashville to their knees to match, Leipold spends $200 million than has the nerve to say "We're not making $$$, we need to fix our system. The Wild's biggest expense by far is player salaries." I personally hold that the NHLPA proposal is better for the CBJ franchise.

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Old
09-10-2012, 07:40 PM
  #290
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BOB MCKENZIE weighs in on an article that some might consider "fair & balanced..."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404989

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Old
09-10-2012, 08:17 PM
  #291
pete goegan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
BOB MCKENZIE weighs in on an article that some might consider "fair & balanced..."

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=404989
Thanks, that's a very good article (not at all "Fox-like").

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Old
09-10-2012, 10:00 PM
  #292
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
Completely different situation.
I said it was different or did you not read that? However, it is still very bad business. The union hold way too much power. Sure they should get a increase in pay, but 30X or more my yearly salary? Umm, no.

Quote:
As to your last paragraph, I believe the owners hold the most responsibility. Snider makes an offer that brings Nashville to their knees to match, Leipold spends $200 million than has the nerve to say "We're not making $$$, we need to fix our system. The Wild's biggest expense by far is player salaries." I personally hold that the NHLPA proposal is better for the CBJ franchise.
Any group of morons demanding 57% of revenue are greedy asshats. I'm not looking for "who hold more responsibility". They both suck.

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Old
09-10-2012, 10:01 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
Thanks, that's a very good article (not at all "Fox-like").
Really going to go there?

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09-10-2012, 10:14 PM
  #294
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I said it was different or did you not read that?
Yes, I did read that. And it didnt stop you from posting it either. So do you want to discuss the issues?

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09-10-2012, 11:26 PM
  #295
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Even though I've stuck with this team and watched nearly every game since the last lockout, I feel like I will be looking to spend my money elsewhere if we lose games this year. Probably just repeating what's already been said but my loyalty and contribution are thrown out the window here; the fan is forgotten. Almost regretting getting all tatted up with the logos now with how betrayed I feel in the whole issue. Just throwin' that out there...

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Old
09-11-2012, 06:57 AM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I said it was different or did you not read that? However, it is still very bad business. The union hold way too much power. Sure they should get a increase in pay, but 30X or more my yearly salary? Umm, no.



Any group of morons demanding 57% of revenue are greedy asshats. I'm not looking for "who hold more responsibility". They both suck.
Didn't the owners with the commish come up with this percentage last time?

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09-11-2012, 07:25 AM
  #297
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This team already snuffed all the passion out of me my by deciding to stick with the architect of the worst team in the league instead of their top line talent, so I really have zero interest in the NHL right now. These guys dont care because the owners will continue to be billionaires, and the players will still be millionaires...i'm done with this league. I'm already happy with the savings ive made by not renewing and will enjoy spending my money on actually playing hockey instead of giving it to these people. I'll still casually watch if/when it comes back, but I certainly wont be spending any money on it.

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09-11-2012, 08:22 AM
  #298
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Didn't the owners with the commish come up with this percentage last time?
And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Oh, and yes, the players had nothing to do with the last CBA agreement. They were just victims that ended up with a ever escalating salary cap that puts pressure on the smaller market teams to break even.

The economics are jacked. The owners screwed up. The players are taking advantage of they fact they are the "talent". But comments like yours aren't the least bit helpful or insightful.

It really doesn't matter how many times I say that there are more than two sides does it? That all of those sides are creating the issues? Nah, we'll try and find who we think is "more at fault". One of the common misconceptions is that there are two sides to this labor dispute.


Last edited by blahblah: 09-11-2012 at 08:32 AM.
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Old
09-11-2012, 08:23 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
Yes, I did read that. And it didnt stop you from posting it either. So do you want to discuss the issues?
There are these things... They are called words. They formed sentences and lines of thought. They were on topic with the discussion. They were after they sentence you pulled out. Those sentences were a continuation of a discussion. They formed the basis for exactly what you asked for. Seems to me you were the one that stopped the discussion and went off topic of which I am now continuing.

/bravo

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09-11-2012, 10:19 AM
  #300
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
And what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Oh, and yes, the players had nothing to do with the last CBA agreement. They were just victims that ended up with a ever escalating salary cap that puts pressure on the smaller market teams to break even.

The economics are jacked. The owners screwed up. The players are taking advantage of they fact they are the "talent". But comments like yours aren't the least bit helpful or insightful.

It really doesn't matter how many times I say that there are more than two sides does it? That all of those sides are creating the issues? Nah, we'll try and find who we think is "more at fault". One of the common misconceptions is that there are two sides to this labor dispute.
It has everything to do with it. Do you think the players wanted a salary cap last time around? I do agree the players need to give up the idea of getting 57% of HRR but the owners aren't going to get there by proposing a 20% reduction in salaries. How would you feel if the company you worked for had revenue increase 50% over 8 years and offered you 20% less in salary?

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