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The Lockout Thread Part I

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10-19-2012, 02:41 PM
  #626
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Originally Posted by IBleedUnionBlue View Post
Believe that the NHL just cancelled up to Nov 1st. Seems like last weeks 50/50 offer was a publicity stunt.
Would think it's more likely that the "though Nov. 1" thing is a bookkeeping type thing for local venues, etc. The 50/50 offer came with the suggestion that a deal by Oct. 25 could start the season by Nov. 2 anyway. Doesn't seem likely any games would have been played in October regardless.

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10-19-2012, 07:16 PM
  #627
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You know, I really want to post something, but it's too depressing.

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10-19-2012, 08:53 PM
  #628
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You know, I really want to post something, but it's too depressing.
Is it a picture of a sad puppy?

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10-19-2012, 10:23 PM
  #629
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http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...nhlpa-coup-cox

Damien Cox unloads on the NHLPA and Fehr.

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Old
10-20-2012, 07:15 AM
  #630
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The players are sheep.
Half the owners rule the other half.
And the lawyers are still being paid, unlike those they are advising.

[Angry puppy pic here]

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10-20-2012, 09:01 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey...nhlpa-coup-cox

Damien Cox unloads on the NHLPA and Fehr.
Thanks for the link. In my mind, an excellent article.

The players can hire whoever they want. But as a baseball fan I have learned this:

The baseball strike came when Donald Fehr was the head of the union.

Because of that strike, the World Series was cancelled

In my mind, this is why the owners locked the players out. Certainly both sides are at fault here in this thing, but Fehr has a track record. This may have been said before, but why would the owners go into the season without an agreement knowing that the guy on the other side can strike and potentially lose the playoffs?

Again, both sides are at fault here, but Cox gives an historical perspective here that is refreshing

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10-20-2012, 03:12 PM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Fred Glover View Post
Thanks for the link. In my mind, an excellent article.

The players can hire whoever they want. But as a baseball fan I have learned this:

The baseball strike came when Donald Fehr was the head of the union.

Because of that strike, the World Series was cancelled

In my mind, this is why the owners locked the players out. Certainly both sides are at fault here in this thing, but Fehr has a track record. This may have been said before, but why would the owners go into the season without an agreement knowing that the guy on the other side can strike and potentially lose the playoffs?

Again, both sides are at fault here, but Cox gives an historical perspective here that is refreshing
Fehr is the same guy who nearly ordered a strike in 2002, with a nearly unprecedented fan backlash convincing him that it wasn't a good idea. He's the same guy who was dragged into Congress and basically berated for continuously shooting down drug testing proposals from MLB, which a majority of players wanted.

He's a jackass with a superiority complex. The writing was on the wall when he rejected NHL proposals to negotiate in-season, and when he shot down realignment for no good reason.

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10-20-2012, 06:39 PM
  #633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Glover View Post
But as a baseball fan I have learned this:

The baseball strike came when Donald Fehr was the head of the union.

Because of that strike, the World Series was cancelled
Completely random question, but how are those statements different than these?

As a hockey fan I have learned this:

3 Lockouts have come since Gary Bettman has been commissioner.

Because of the second, not only was an entire season cancelled, but the Stanley Cup was not awarded.

------------------

Both sides suck, this whole situation sucks. We've come this far, we've lost games. These damn head games that both sides are playing to try and win fan sympathy suck.

I don't want this done tomorrow if it means we'll be right back here doing this again in 6 years. I want a solution that prevents us from revisiting the same crap ever time there is a CBA negotiation.

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10-21-2012, 07:00 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post

I don't want this done tomorrow if it means we'll be right back here doing this again in 6 years. I want a solution that prevents us from revisiting the same crap ever time there is a CBA negotiation.

I agree that a long term solution must be achieved. And of course that is what the main problem is right now. Owners want to fix the issue of giving too much last time immediately and the players don't want to give up anything in the short term.

Something has to give or this is going on for a long time. In my opinion the way they are negotiating is ridiculous. They need to get in a room and stay for as many days as it takes to iron out a compromise where the owners don't get it all back at once and the players start to take a hit, bit by bit.

Another lost season is lunacy.

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10-21-2012, 07:04 AM
  #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Both sides suck, this whole situation sucks. We've come this far, we've lost games. These damn head games that both sides are playing to try and win fan sympathy suck.

I don't want this done tomorrow if it means we'll be right back here doing this again in 6 years. I want a solution that prevents us from revisiting the same crap ever time there is a CBA negotiation.
I agree wth you, Skraut, but weren't we saying the same thing in 2004?

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10-21-2012, 09:46 AM
  #636
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I'm very pro owners in this mess except on one issue. I think it's ludicrous that players with existing contracts are being asked to have those altered. Honor the existing contracts and every other issue I'm on the side of the owners.

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10-21-2012, 10:41 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by Doug61 View Post
I'm very pro owners in this mess except on one issue. I think it's ludicrous that players with existing contracts are being asked to have those altered. Honor the existing contracts and every other issue I'm on the side of the owners.
How is that different from the NHLPA's recent Option 3 proposal - 50/50 split of HRR as long as all existing contracts are honored? That is certainly the basis for an agreement, but it's also the biggest roadblock, as well. The other issues, length of ELC, free agency, etc., can all be worked out easily; but how to get to 50/50 with no salary rollback is the giant stumbling block.

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10-21-2012, 10:49 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by pete goegan View Post
How is that different from the NHLPA's recent Option 3 proposal - 50/50 split of HRR as long as all existing contracts are honored? That is certainly the basis for an agreement, but it's also the biggest roadblock, as well. The other issues, length of ELC, free agency, etc., can all be worked out easily; but how to get to 50/50 with no salary rollback is the giant stumbling block.
I still feel that a compromise between the NHL offer the NHLPA offer 3 is possible if they can swallow their pride and get it done.

I like the idea that if drops to 50/50 split immediately, and the 12-13% that gets cut off the existing contracts gets paid to those players in an annuity that starts paying in about 10 years or so. This money is not considered an expense for the owners that they can deduct from HRR now or then.

You get to 50/50, the players get their money (albeit after they retire) and the players don't feel that they are the ones paying for the 'make whole' payments.

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10-21-2012, 10:59 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
I still feel that a compromise between the NHL offer the NHLPA offer 3 is possible if they can swallow their pride and get it done.

I like the idea that if drops to 50/50 split immediately, and the 12-13% that gets cut off the existing contracts gets paid to those players in an annuity that starts paying in about 10 years or so. This money is not considered an expense for the owners that they can deduct from HRR now or then.

You get to 50/50, the players get their money (albeit after they retire) and the players don't feel that they are the ones paying for the 'make whole' payments.
Sounds reasonable, Nana, so there are ways to make it happen. Let's see if someone in a position to make a deal can come up with something in the next few days that works, so we can see a full season of NHL hockey!

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10-21-2012, 11:32 AM
  #640
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So owners make stupid long term contracts and now they want them voided? Aren't they the ones that made the offers?

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10-21-2012, 01:19 PM
  #641
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4627007/

I will believe it when I see it

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Old
10-21-2012, 02:28 PM
  #642
pete goegan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Glover View Post
A very interesting quote from this article:

The NHLPA has shown a willingness to get to the league’s desired 50-50 split of revenues over the course of the deal, but wants to ensure all current contracts are honoured in full. The NHL attempted to address that with a surprise offer on Tuesday, but the NHLPA didn’t like that the proposed “make whole” provision would see deferred payments count against the earning potential of players in the future.

However, commissioner Gary Bettman made it clear to NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr that further concessions could be made in that area.

“At the end of yesterday’s meeting, Gary did say that (if) the players were prepared to agree to all of the other parts of their offer (subject, perhaps, to ”tweaks“) then I could call him about this issue,” Fehr wrote in a letter to his membership and player agents on Friday.


I hadn't seen that, before, and it seems very significant to me.

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Old
10-21-2012, 02:31 PM
  #643
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What's wrong with playing the Cup in July? They could shave two weeks off next year's preseason and it wouldn't be missed. The NFL just did it.

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10-21-2012, 10:12 PM
  #644
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What's wrong with playing the Cup in July? They could shave two weeks off next year's preseason and it wouldn't be missed. The NFL just did it.
Best chance for the CBJ to be playing hockey in May.

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Old
10-21-2012, 11:29 PM
  #645
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Best chance for the CBJ to be playing hockey in May.

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10-22-2012, 06:27 AM
  #646
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Best chance for the CBJ to be playing hockey in May.
One of the all time great posts

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Old
10-23-2012, 05:18 PM
  #647
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This whole situation reminds me of George Carlin. Maybe this whole situation is based off of Don and Steve's brother Dick.

WARNING: there is language some people may find offensive.


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Old
10-24-2012, 10:06 AM
  #648
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The latest kick in the teeth:

NHL lockout: League rejects union bid to restart talks

NEW YORK — The little hope that existed for a full NHL season appears to be gone. Shortly after the players union reached out to the league last night to restart stalled labor negotiations, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly rebuffed the union’s attempt.

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Old
10-24-2012, 11:28 AM
  #649
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So owners make stupid long term contracts and now they want them voided? Aren't they the ones that made the offers?
Just saw this one. Voided? No. Amended is the word you are looking for. This is one thing I am fully on board with the union on. The owners made these contract offers and should have to live with them.

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Old
10-24-2012, 12:38 PM
  #650
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Well, Davidson has lots of time to plan for the 2013-2014 season.

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