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OT: Bills IV - Preseason Perspective: 2008 Lions went 4-0

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08-07-2012, 03:04 PM
  #276
dma0034
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Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Not a valid comparison.

I took a look at traits for a Super Bowl winning QB at Buffalo Rumblings. Since the end of the NFC Super Bowl run, every team that has won a title has a franchise QB (56 starts with the team that drafted him), or an all-time great defense - with the notable exception of Kurt Warner.

Buffalo is banking on Fitzpatrick becoming Warner, or the defense being mentioned with the 2000 Ravens and 2003 Bucs.

Long odds, either way.
And you can argue Warner is a HoF QB.

Remember that since 2000 there have been 4 teams that have made the Superbowl from the AFC. The QBs of those teams: Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger (all franchise QBs and potentially HoFers) Gannon (the odd one out of the group.... but won MVP that year). To get to the Superbowl in the AFC you absolutely need a QB playing at an elite level.

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08-07-2012, 03:06 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
And you can argue Warner is a HoF QB.

Remember that since 2000 there have been 4 teams that have made the Superbowl from the AFC. The QBs of those teams: Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger (all franchise QBs and potentially HoFers) Gannon (the odd one out of the group.... but won MVP that year). To get to the Superbowl in the AFC you absolutely need a QB playing at an elite level.
Yeah, but the Superbowl isn't the goal for the Bills. It's apparently just playing average enough to get close to the playoffs.

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08-07-2012, 03:26 PM
  #278
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And a twitter avatar is somehow interfering with the marketing of the current team?
It's not an invalid complaint. Or do you not remember three years ago when they sent out the season ticket renewal form and the accompanying picture was Moorman punting from his own end zone

Don't give these Bills too much credit just because they signed Mario. They need to win and win fast.

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08-07-2012, 03:32 PM
  #279
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Since Takeo (and others) use it, expounding on the lingo clarification...

In a 4-3 defense:

Sam = Strongside (tight end) (outside) linebacker
Mike = Middle linebacker
Will = Weakside (outside) linebacker

As to whether a defense swaps the individual player (Will physically moves to Sam, and vice versa) or swaps the role responsibility (Will plays the Sam role, and vice versa) when facing a left-handed QB with a TE on the left side of the o-line likely depends on the defensive team and the talent both they and their offensive opponent have. Others who have coached can comment on how that's done.

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08-07-2012, 03:36 PM
  #280
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double post ???

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08-07-2012, 03:54 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by dma0034 View Post
And you can argue Warner is a HoF QB.

Remember that since 2000 there have been 4 teams that have made the Superbowl from the AFC. The QBs of those teams: Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger (all franchise QBs and potentially HoFers) Gannon (the odd one out of the group.... but won MVP that year). To get to the Superbowl in the AFC you absolutely need a QB playing at an elite level.
I guess I disagree on Big Ben. He is fat and tall and those give him unique advantages. He's okay but not flashy. He has played with an OUSTANDING defense.

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08-07-2012, 03:59 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by DixonWard15 View Post
per Joe Buscaglia

Arthur Moats is going to get the start on Thursday over Kirk Morrison
The only thing keeping Morrison around is that hes a vet.

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08-07-2012, 04:03 PM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
It's not an invalid complaint. Or do you not remember three years ago when they sent out the season ticket renewal form and the accompanying picture was Moorman punting from his own end zone

Don't give these Bills too much credit just because they signed Mario. They need to win and win fast.
Maybe over the past 10 years or so, it would have been pretty valid.

This year? Not so much.

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08-07-2012, 04:04 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
Not a valid comparison.

I took a look at traits for a Super Bowl winning QB at Buffalo Rumblings. Since the end of the NFC Super Bowl run, every team that has won a title has a franchise QB (56 starts with the team that drafted him), or an all-time great defense - with the notable exception of Kurt Warner.

Buffalo is banking on Fitzpatrick becoming Warner, or the defense being mentioned with the 2000 Ravens and 2003 Bucs.

Long odds, either way.
While that may be true that the chances of becoming Warner esque are long odds, Fitz has shown flashes of brilliance. Donít think he is a star in the making. But if the D improves I think he can make them a competitor. NE never had a good defense, and hell neither did Indy. NO didnít either. You only need a star QB if your team canít play D.

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08-07-2012, 04:05 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
I guess I disagree on Big Ben. He is fat and tall and those give him unique advantages. He's okay but not flashy. He has played with an OUSTANDING defense.
Who cares if he's flashy or not? Why in the world what that make any difference? Assuming Ben continues playing, in 3 seasons he'll have similar numbers to Jim Kelly at the end of his career. I guess that's "okay."

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08-07-2012, 04:11 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Who cares if he's flashy or not? Why in the world what that make any difference? Assuming Ben continues playing, in 3 seasons he'll have similar numbers to Jim Kelly at the end of his career. I guess that's "okay."
Passing numbers from the early 90's is much different from today.

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08-07-2012, 04:15 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Passing numbers from the early 90's is much different from today.
That makes his accomplishments somehow worse?

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08-07-2012, 04:19 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
That makes his accomplishments somehow worse?
Yes it does. a QB with a passer rating below 85 and a 3:1 TD:INT ratio is considered a below average QB, in the early 90's when QB's were allowed to be hit and had to deal with much more chippy play they would be lucky to put up a season like that. I am more so saying that QB's of the 90's had a much tougher time to put up numbers then they do in todays game so its not fair to measure the stats of today to what the game was then and think all things are equal.

I am sure if Kelly had the type of rules of today that allowed him or his recievers be touched he would of put up 100 Passer rating seasons with 40TD for a solid 4-5 year stretch. Compare Big Bens numbers to what is in the league today to gauge where he stands.

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08-07-2012, 04:25 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Woodman19 View Post
Yes it does. a QB with a passer rating below 85 and a 3:1 TD:INT ratio is considered a below average QB, in the early 90's when QB's were allowed to be hit and had to deal with much more chippy play they would be lucky to put up a season like that. I am more so saying that QB's of the 90's had a much tougher time to put up numbers then they do in todays game so its not fair to measure the stats of today to what the game was then and think all things are equal.

I am sure if Kelly had the type of rules of today that allowed him or his recievers be touched he would of put up 100 Passer rating seasons with 40TD for a solid 4-5 year stretch. Compare Big Bens numbers to what is in the league today to gauge where he stands.
lolwut?

And I'm sure if Ben had the offense that surrounded Kelly he'd be putting up Brees numbers.

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08-07-2012, 04:37 PM
  #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
While that may be true that the chances of becoming Warner esque are long odds, Fitz has shown flashes of brilliance. Donít think he is a star in the making. But if the D improves I think he can make them a competitor. NE never had a good defense, and hell neither did Indy. NO didnít either. You only need a star QB if your team canít play D.
You only need a star QB if you want to win the Super Bowl. Or you have an epic-quality defense. Buffalo's defense isn't epic. Maybe one day, but not now.

I'm not interested in the Bills being competitive. You build a team with the intention of winning the Super Bowl. Anything short of that, and you get a team like Philly - always close but never quite there. Philly has yet to commit to a young, rookie, first round QB to build around... not since McNabb anyway.

For Buffalo to win the Super Bowl, they need to draft a QB in the first round.

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08-07-2012, 04:41 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
lolwut?

And I'm sure if Ben had the offense that surrounded Kelly he'd be putting up Brees numbers.
I will grant they are both immobile, like to drink, and chase women.

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08-07-2012, 04:52 PM
  #292
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any word on how Dorin Dickerson has been looking at TE/FB/H-back?
He catches everything thrown his way but doesn't block well. He could make the team as a #2FB or #3TE if he impresses enough with his receiving skills and can play special teams. He could be the Bills Aaron Hernandez who's listed as TE but is basically a slot receiver.

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08-07-2012, 06:24 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by BK Triple Threat View Post
Wow itís just training camp. The guy is the best QB since Flutie. Guys who were worse than Fitz have won titles mind you. Brad Johnson, Jeff Hostedler and Trent Dilfer come to mind.

If your D is good you don't need an outstanding QB
Correction: if your D is elite, you don't need an outstanding QB. The Bills' D is nowhere near elite. And their QB is average at best. Fitzy has the potential by himself to sabotage any improvements they make in other areas of the team.

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08-07-2012, 07:57 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
Correction: if your D is elite, you don't need an outstanding QB. The Bills' D is nowhere near elite. And their QB is average at best. Fitzy has the potential by himself to sabotage any improvements they make in other areas of the team.
It's too early to draw a conclusion on Fitz. At least give this upcoming season.

If he flounders in 2012-13, then I'll agree with you, but until then he's still got my support.

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08-07-2012, 08:10 PM
  #295
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Catch me up - why are we expecting the Bills defense to be good this year? Seems we were 26th in the league last year. Is Mario Williams an MVP or something?

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08-07-2012, 08:15 PM
  #296
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It's too early to draw a conclusion on Fitz. At least give this upcoming season.

If he flounders in 2012-13, then I'll agree with you, but until then he's still got my support.
I don't know, he's running on two complete seasons of about an 80 passer rating. Last year that was behind 21 other guys. Is he supposed to have high potential/pedigree? All I've ever heard is he was a longshot to even be in the league.

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08-07-2012, 08:23 PM
  #297
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Catch me up - why are we expecting the Bills defense to be good this year? Seems we were 26th in the league last year. Is Mario Williams an MVP or something?
A pass rush will have ripple effects throughout the whole defense.

A healthy K.Williams/Dareus should make running the ball a pain up the middle.

And Gilmore by all reports has looked like the real deal.

I don't think it will be elite, but it should be much improved. If Williams x2/Dareus/Anderson can get to the QB without relying on blitzers, it instantly allows the defense to do a lot more in coverage, and improves the whole team.

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08-07-2012, 08:26 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Catch me up - why are we expecting the Bills defense to be good this year? Seems we were 26th in the league last year. Is Mario Williams an MVP or something?
In addition to Mario Williams, we're also getting Kyle Williams back, and we also signed Mark Anderson. On top of that, Dareus is one year older, and Stephon Gilmore has looked great by all accounts. Dave Wannstedt is an upgrade at defensive coordinator.

There's reason for optimism.

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08-07-2012, 08:44 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
I don't know, he's running on two complete seasons of about an 80 passer rating. Last year that was behind 21 other guys. Is he supposed to have high potential/pedigree? All I've ever heard is he was a longshot to even be in the league.
He's shown enough flashes to warrant one more opportunity.

In the last two seasons (that weren't complete BTW), he's thrown for 6,800 yards and 47 TDs. Obviously, INTs have been the biggest problem, but he's been working with David Lee all off season on improving his mechanics and making better decisions.

I know people don't like excuses, but the offense had a lot of injuries down the stretch. There was games where it was hard for Fitz to even get a good snap from his center. Plus Fitzpatrick himself was playing with cracked ribs.

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08-07-2012, 08:59 PM
  #300
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My opinion on Fitz is this:

Is he a QB you can win a SB with? Maybe, probably not though.

But I believe that it is more important to get the surrounding pieces in place, and then go get the QB as the last piece. Trade up, draft a top QB, and put him into a setting where he can step in and win...and the assets required to move up don't matter as much because you've got the surrounding talent on both sides. This team had too many holes to do it last year. Could they trade up next year for a top QB? Maybe, this year though will tell.

Look at a guy like Ben Roethlisberger. He stepped into a team that had those pieces in place, where he could learn the ropes in a winning environment without the world on his shoulders. Tom Brady was similar. Mark Sanchez got to two straight AFC championship games (although I'd hope we pick someone better than Sanchez) because he came into a team that was ready to succeed. Flacco is in a similar boat.

Fitz has his chance to prove we don't need an upgrade, and I'm OK with him at the helm while the rest of the team comes together.

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