HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Football Thread: Now Its Time For the Easiest Part of Any Coach's Job...The Cuts

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-24-2012, 12:19 PM
  #126
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
You seem to think I'm trying to equate the severity or hardship of one to the other. That's not what I'm doing at all. IN THE CONTEXT OF WHAT THAT POSTER BELIEVES, yes they are the same, but ONLY IN THAT CONTEXT.
It was wrong in any context but I'm over it. Let's move on.

Shady Machine is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 12:20 PM
  #127
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big McLargehuge View Post
The NCAA doesn't exist to act as a morality court, it exists to enforce the letter of the law in college athletics.
Well said. Very well said.

JTG is online now  
Old
07-24-2012, 12:24 PM
  #128
Shady Machine
Registered User
 
Shady Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,720
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Who on the current staff enabled anyone though? That's the thing. This current team, the players who are there, and the players coming in have nothing to do with this. The people who did have something to do with it were fired, they have died, or they will be in jail forever.

Those who had something to do with it have been punished - now if you want to talk about the scope of the punishments, feel free. Rather than punishing those who were at fault though, current and present members of the PSU football team are taking the complete brunt of the problem. It's not right. The collateral damage should be minimized, but rather anyone with PSU is guilty by association.
The problem is a cultural one at the University. That cultural problem did not just end the day those in power were fired or at least that's my opinion. The NCAA seemed to agree. By punishing the football program, they are trying to change the culture. I think the punishment is harsh and I definitely understand your point of view.

Shady Machine is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 12:55 PM
  #129
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,580
vCash: 500
Underrated: not sure what you're trying to say WRT to the media and sailed ships but what I said about enablement is correct and obvious based on the trial results and the Freh report.

JTG: See above and also, enablement does not require active help. The LACK of action and the lack of concern for the kids and for Sandusky's behavior (doing nothing IOW), is a form of enablement. By acting confused, doing nothing, denying the unthinkable, they made it possible for this guy to do terrible things right under their noses. Not once or twice (could be at least looked upon less harshly), but dozens of times.

Inaction when strong action is required, is a form of enablement. Is it as bad as inviting the kids yourselves and saying "go hang out with Coach Sandusky, you can trust him"? No. But it's pretty damn awful all the same.

How does the quote go: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men do nothing." The absolute perfect quote for this situation and Paterno in particular. A good man by all accounts, who learned some scary ****... and did nothing. For years... did nothing. Less inclined to even call the administrators "good men" as if they're like many university administrators, they are power-hungry men, and sometimes greedy men. Although greed probably played no role here vs. losing power and covering their own careers.


All: regarding meathead athlete and tweets - clearly I picked a bad example for a generalization here and I apologize if I offended anyone. But the guy still missed the point IMO. I do understand his frustration with a purely symbolic ruling but I don't understand how he's missing the big picture here. Especially if he's as smart as everyone suggests.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 12:59 PM
  #130
Lamar Latrell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 554
vCash: 500
These sanctions do nothing to change the culture which encouraged the cover up and do not add any extra disincentive for anyone doing the same in the future.

It is punishment for punishment's sake and to make it look like the NCAA has a purpose beyond serving special interests.

Lamar Latrell is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:09 PM
  #131
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
JTG: See above and also, enablement does not require active help. The LACK of action and the lack of concern for the kids and for Sandusky's behavior (doing nothing IOW), is a form of enablement. By acting confused, doing nothing, denying the unthinkable, they made it possible for this guy to do terrible things right under their noses. Not once or twice (could be at least looked upon less harshly), but dozens of times.

Inaction when strong action is required, is a form of enablement. Is it as bad as inviting the kids yourselves and saying "go hang out with Coach Sandusky, you can trust him"? No. But it's pretty damn awful all the same.

How does the quote go: "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil, is that good men do nothing." The absolute perfect quote for this situation and Paterno in particular. A good man by all accounts, who learned some scary ****... and did nothing. For years... did nothing. Less inclined to even call the administrators "good men" as if they're like many university administrators, they are power-hungry men, and sometimes greedy men. Although greed probably played no role here vs. losing power and covering their own careers.
I am not refuting this point you keep making. Not at all. He was enabled. You're glossing over my point though. What I'm saying is two fold.

1. NCAA is not the moral police. **** is something that is handled by criminal courts. I think they are out of their jurisdiction on this one. Members of the football team were affiliated, but those members have been fired, and Jerry Sandusky is going to rot in prison. If a player on the current team ***** a girl, would the NCAA step in and dock the school money, scholarships and Bowl games? No. They'd kick the kid off the team and charge him in criminal court.

2. It is not right whatsoever to punish the kids who play for this program, the kids who are about to play for this program, the current coaching staff who had zero to do with this, nor the city who needs this football program to survive. Punish those who were wrong. As I said, all who were wrong have been fired, have died, or have been convicted and will rot in prison. That's as far as it should have went.

What does keeping this current roster out of Bowl games do? "**** is bad...you need to know this...and just to put that point in concrete...you can't play in any bowl games." It makes no sense to me. And it's not even like they were pulling a Patriots and recording practices of opponents or something to gain an advantage. Then I could get it. You cheated in football, therefore the people who have to protect the sanctity of the game come down on you. That makes complete sense.


And people like to just say, "Well these kids can transfer where ever they want," and it has been driving me insane all morning. If you're at a university you love, and anyone who has family ties to the university, or has friends at the university knows...those people ****ing LOVE their school. I mean, it's a cult. It really is. Not mentioning, why would any of these kids want to pick up in the middle of their collegiate career and go to another school? That's no fun. I did it. They are settled in Happy Valley and they are getting **** on for something they had nothing to do with.

That's where my point came from.


Last edited by JTG: 07-24-2012 at 01:14 PM.
JTG is online now  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:10 PM
  #132
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamar Latrell View Post
These sanctions do nothing to change the culture which encouraged the cover up and do not add any extra disincentive for anyone doing the same in the future.
That seems like a huge leap in logic. The culture is "win at all costs and the team is above reproach". That culture is everywhere in Divison I athletics, especially football and basketball. Not jsut PSU. I'd say with their new team structure, they've got plenty of time to think it over and change the culture. Not to mention the NCAA is going to have someone on campus monitoring things.

This ain't going away. I have a feeling the NCAA will track it closely and make public what they find over the next couple years, good or bad.


Last edited by Darth Vitale: 07-24-2012 at 01:18 PM.
Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:17 PM
  #133
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I am not refuting this point you keep making. Not at all. He was enabled. You're glossing over my point though. What I'm saying is two fold.

1. NCAA is not the moral police. **** is something that is handled by criminal courts.
Wait a minute... you think the NCAA has no jurisdiction over university behavior WRT to university athletics, but you DO think that a PA state court DOES have jurisdiction over those same folks? IMHO you have it exactly backwards. The court handled the CRIMINAL element of this. However there are many NON-CRIMINAL ****-ups that took place and they were bad ones as we can all agree. Those are definitely NOT the jurisdiction of the courts and I'd be kind of afraid to live in a country where courts could hold sway over university programs and business programs that are not involved in criminal or illegal (in the civil sense) activities.

The inaction of all those coaches and administrators (and maybe some players too - we really don't know if any of those coaches talked to any of the players, or if any of the players witnessed something and were afraid to talk for fear of losing their scholarship) needs to be handled somehow. In a couple cases criminal charges are going against them too but there's a whole other realm that the court can't really get involved with IMO.


Quote:
2. It is not right whatsoever to punish the kids who play for this program, the kids who are about to play for this program, the current coaching staff who had zero to do with this, nor the city who needs this football program to survive.
So you're saying that $60M the football program earns every year, that gets funneled into the community? I kind of doubt it but maybe I'm not understanding something accounting-wise. I do understand local businesses and shops may be hurt by less business, but in a college town and with thousands of supporters still there every weekend I imagine they'll be OK. Had the NCAA completely cancelled the program for a number of years you might have a point during football season. As it is I think you have to accept that the mediums for punishment in complex situations like this cannot be cut and dry as a criminal court and that the repercussions have to be felt beyond the coaching and administrative offices. If this hurts a lot of people indirectly, maybe that will lead to some positive change / discussions / that otherwise would never have taken place.

Let's see how the first year or so pans out...

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:23 PM
  #134
WVU71
Registered User
 
WVU71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: West Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 596
vCash: 500
Ed Bouchette ‏@EdBouchette
#Steelers announce Mike Tomlin contract extension thru 2016

WVU71 is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:23 PM
  #135
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Wait a minute... you think the NCAA has no jurisdiction over university behavior WRT to university athletics, but you DO think that a PA state court DOES have jurisdiction over those same folks? IMHO you have it exactly backwards. The court handled the CRIMINAL element of this. However there are many NON-CRIMINAL ****-ups that took place and they were bad ones as we can all agree. Those are definitely NOT the jurisdiction of the courts and I'd be kind of afraid to live in a country where courts could hold sway over university programs and business programs that are not involved in criminal or illegal (in the civil sense) activities.

The inaction of all those coaches and administrators (and maybe some players too - we really don't know if any of those coaches talked to any of the players, or if any of the players witnessed something and were afraid to talk for fear of losing their scholarship) needs to be handled somehow. In a couple cases criminal charges are going against them too but there's a whole other realm that the court can't really get involved with IMO.




So you're saying that $60M the football program earns every year, that gets funneled into the community? I kind of doubt it but maybe I'm not understanding something accounting-wise. I do understand local businesses and shops may be hurt by less business, but in a college town and with thousands of supporters still there every weekend I imagine they'll be OK. Had the NCAA completely cancelled the program for a number of years you might have a point during football season. As it is I think you have to accept that the mediums for punishment in complex situations like this cannot be cut and dry as a criminal court and that the repercussions have to be felt beyond the coaching and administrative offices. If this hurts a lot of people indirectly, maybe that will lead to some positive change / discussions / that otherwise would never have taken place.

Let's see how the first year or so pans out...
And those who ****ed up are not in the program anymore. They have been punished. So now a coaching staff and a roster who wants to change the culture are taking the brunt of the punishment.

JTG is online now  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:30 PM
  #136
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
And those who ****ed up are not in the program anymore. They have been punished. So now a coaching staff and a roster who wants to change the culture are taking the brunt of the punishment.
If someone at a corporation raided the coffers or did something else to screw over millions of customers, over a period of years (when it should've been noticed / caught / stopped)... and the company did nothing until it came out in the press, and then they fired that person. And courts convicted him. Do you think it right that the corporation be made to make some changes and reparations so it doesn't happen again, even if it ends up causing problems for people that currently work there and did nothing wrong? Not direct analogy but pretty close.

If the university is a family as we always hear, and they're in it together, as we always hear... then they are responsible together and must take the consequences together.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:31 PM
  #137
Lamar Latrell
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 554
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
That seems like a huge leap in logic. The culture is "win at all costs and the team is above reproach". That culture is everywhere in Divison I athletics, especially football and basketball. Not jsut PSU. I'd say with their new team structure, they've got plenty of time to think it over and change the culture. Not to mention the NCAA is going to have someone on campus monitoring things.

This ain't going away. I have a feeling the NCAA will track it closely and make public what they find over the next couple years, good or bad.
I don't believe "thinking it over" is going to do much. The consensus I've seen from PSUers is an inward looking, circle-the-wagons one. I imagine it'll be much worse inside the Lasch Building. I may be wrong, but nothing has changed. BoB makes more money than Rodney Erickson, the football program still funds a lot of the school's activities and will be the most visible arm of the school. 100k+ people will still show up for games. It's not going to change.

Lamar Latrell is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:34 PM
  #138
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamar Latrell View Post
I don't believe "thinking it over" is going to do much. The consensus I've seen from PSUers is an inward looking, circle-the-wagons one. I imagine it'll be much worse inside the Lasch Building. I may be wrong, but nothing has changed. BoB makes more money than Rodney Erickson, the football program still funds a lot of the school's activities and will be the most visible arm of the school. 100k+ people will still show up for games. It's not going to change.
The presence or absence of an eventual good result (not being a 100% certainty) is not a good reason to skip the university infractions. The NCAA has to try. If you were the NCAA and you wanted to mete out some punishment for the program and set up a situation where change would be the only option, how would you do it?

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:40 PM
  #139
bambamcam4ever
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Wait a minute... you think the NCAA has no jurisdiction over university behavior WRT to university athletics, but you DO think that a PA state court DOES have jurisdiction over those same folks? IMHO you have it exactly backwards. The court handled the CRIMINAL element of this. However there are many NON-CRIMINAL ****-ups that took place and they were bad ones as we can all agree. Those are definitely NOT the jurisdiction of the courts and I'd be kind of afraid to live in a country where courts could hold sway over university programs and business programs that are not involved in criminal or illegal (in the civil sense) activities.

The inaction of all those coaches and administrators (and maybe some players too - we really don't know if any of those coaches talked to any of the players, or if any of the players witnessed something and were afraid to talk for fear of losing their scholarship) needs to be handled somehow. In a couple cases criminal charges are going against them too but there's a whole other realm that the court can't really get involved with IMO.




So you're saying that $60M the football program earns every year, that gets funneled into the community? I kind of doubt it but maybe I'm not understanding something accounting-wise. I do understand local businesses and shops may be hurt by less business, but in a college town and with thousands of supporters still there every weekend I imagine they'll be OK. Had the NCAA completely cancelled the program for a number of years you might have a point during football season. As it is I think you have to accept that the mediums for punishment in complex situations like this cannot be cut and dry as a criminal court and that the repercussions have to be felt beyond the coaching and administrative offices. If this hurts a lot of people indirectly, maybe that will lead to some positive change / discussions / that otherwise would never have taken place.

Let's see how the first year or so pans out...
Football and basketball at large institutions pay for all other athletic programs. A loss of $60 million could force Penn State to shut down other sports.

bambamcam4ever is online now  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:45 PM
  #140
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,755
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
If someone at a corporation raided the coffers or did something else to screw over millions of customers, over a period of years (when it should've been noticed / caught / stopped)... and the company did nothing until it came out in the press, and then they fired that person. And courts convicted him. Do you think it right that the corporation be made to make some changes and reparations so it doesn't happen again, even if it ends up causing problems for people that currently work there and did nothing wrong? Not direct analogy but pretty close.

If the university is a family as we always hear, and they're in it together, as we always hear... then they are responsible together and must take the consequences together.
Changes are not punishments. They are different. Changes can be made. That's fine. Very different from imposing a punishment on an organization, and the punishment imposed affects the wrong doingers nil, and rather affects innocent people.

It's like I said, if a player on the football team did something catastrophic like ****** women or murdering someone, would the organization then face the wrath? No. That player would. It's obviously not a straight across comparison because higher up's in the organization tried covering it up, but as I've said before, punish those who covered it up. Purge them from the organization and prosecute those who you can prosecute.

I in no way support what happened, and I think everyone who was involved should face the largest punishment possible. The collateral damage is what I have a serious problem with, and the fact that the scope of the NCAA's jurisdiction grew heavily with their ruling. They are now not just responsible for wrong doing's that occur within the sport. They can now rule on anything that happens regarding anyone who is affiliated with the NCAA. That's huge.


Last edited by JTG: 07-24-2012 at 01:51 PM.
JTG is online now  
Old
07-24-2012, 01:50 PM
  #141
bambamcam4ever
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Essentially correct. If the NCAA had handed out a less severe punishment that would've basically been undermining their own legitimacy IMO. It would be like other teams saying "Well let's see what we can get away with. Worst thing that happens is we get allegations, then they have to prove them, and even if they do the punishment won't be too bad. PSU allowed a few dozen kids to be ***** by one of their former coaches, in their facilities, with knowledge by the coach, administrators and others, and look what they got."

IMO they would've been completely justified suspending the program entirely for a couple years to start things off, then do all the other stuff too. PSU fans should be grateful they still have a program IMO. If I were the NCAA guy I would've shut the thing down for several years at least. THAT will put the fear into these ridiculous "football as religion" people all over this country. It's completely out of control and from coast to coast, not just at PSU.




NCAA will allow special transfers for all players who want to leave. Basically it's going to be an expansion draft for the rest of the schools in your region or the BigTen. As I understand it, anyway. So no one will be stuck there if they feel it will hurt their career.




This is the worst sort of rationalization. I'm guessing you're a huge fan, right? Hard core? This is the kind of stuff the NCAA has to contend with and it's not good. Sandusky was still a major presence in the PSU football program, was in regular contact with the coaches, directors and others there, regularly used your facilities, etc. PSU was an activate enabler of this POS at every stage of the process, and consequently are equally as guilty. To act like PSU is somehow less guilty (especially throughout the football and athletic programs), because Sandusky was no longer receiving a salary as a coach, is absurd.

All of the Paterno hero-worshippers in that town (and other fans who worship their coaches and programs) need to get their head out of their ass if they haven't already. Joe Paterno screwed up BIGTIME. That has been demonstrated clearly by the the Freh report, given the very large scope of their interviews, documentation reviews, etc. No one with any credibility is questioning the veracity or depth of that report, except the Paterno family and maybe some former meathead players, unable to extricate themselves from their pride. Sometimes the truth hurts too much. Paterno was actively involved in the cover-up. Period. The hero of the grand experiment or whatever you want to call it, where he talked a big game on ethics and schoolwork and all the rest, chose the route of a coward instead of a hero when faced with his biggest and MOST IMPORTANT test as a leader at PSU.

All this BS analysis we've heard boils down to one simple thing: wherever you are, whatever you do for a living (powerful or not), whoever you are surrounded by... when you find out that one of your peers is ****** kids or might be ****** kids, or is ****** or assaulting anyone for that matter, YOU GO TO THE ****ING POLICE with your evidence. This can't be hammered home enough in this country of rationalizations and feel-good crapola we live in today.

There is no "I'm not sure what our policy was on that", and "maybe I should use the chain of command", or "I have to think about the effects on all the good people in the program". Unless you're in the military, you call the police, you report a serious felony with evidence or corroborating witness statements, and you have the ****er arrested right THEN AND THERE. There is no other logical course of action (unless you consider confronting the rapist and beating the crap out of him a logical course - I could accept that in the case of the coach who witnessed stuff in the showers... but ultimately he was a coward as well).
1. The NCAA should be enforcing their rules and punishments to all situations, not "sending a message" to discourage other schools from breaking rules.

2. I guess I am a fan of Penn State, as I am of a few other schools, but I did not go there and am certainly not a "hard core" fan.

3. There is no disputing what some of the higher-ups of Penn State did was very wrong. The extent of that should be decided by the court system, not an organization that regulates intercollegiate athletics.

4. The bolded makes it abundantly clear that you did not actually read the report.

bambamcam4ever is online now  
Old
07-24-2012, 02:20 PM
  #142
Ugene Malkin
Bück Dich Baby!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Germany
Posts: 21,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
If someone at a corporation raided the coffers or did something else to screw over millions of customers, over a period of years (when it should've been noticed / caught / stopped)... and the company did nothing until it came out in the press, and then they fired that person. And courts convicted him. Do you think it right that the corporation be made to make some changes and reparations so it doesn't happen again, even if it ends up causing problems for people that currently work there and did nothing wrong? Not direct analogy but pretty close.

If the university is a family as we always hear, and they're in it together, as we always hear... then they are responsible together and must take the consequences together.
Exactly.

It's called collateral damage.

Ugene Malkin is online now  
Old
07-24-2012, 03:04 PM
  #143
nwpensfan
Moderator
 
nwpensfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The 14th Tee
Country: United States
Posts: 2,687
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
That seems like a huge leap in logic. The culture is "win at all costs and the team is above reproach". That culture is everywhere in Divison I athletics, especially football and basketball. Not jsut PSU. I'd say with their new team structure, they've got plenty of time to think it over and change the culture. Not to mention the NCAA is going to have someone on campus monitoring things.

This ain't going away. I have a feeling the NCAA will track it closely and make public what they find over the next couple years, good or bad.
You have much more faith in the NCAA than I do!! This was in part a publicity move by the NCAA to try to change its image as a group of inaction to one of action. Certainly Penn State gave them the amunition through the ******* Sandusky and JoePa's inaction and the administrators who lacked the courage to do what was right!! Unfortunately the culture predicated by money throughtout all the major colleges will not change because of this and the NCAA will do nothing about it!! Overreaching and the wrong punishment IMHO!!


Last edited by nwpensfan: 07-24-2012 at 03:16 PM.
nwpensfan is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 03:47 PM
  #144
Smoke
Time is the flaw
 
Smoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
I'm talking about money, what are you guys basing my comment off of?

He's worried about the thousands he would lose if they canceled the seasons.

Has nothing to do with natural disasters, but it is worrying about profiting still off a program that is what it is from criminals.

It's like a pirate ship that gets surrounded shot up and sinks but some of the crew make it to life rafts then they start complaining about the loot stash sinking to the bottom with the ship.
Lets criticize a guy who is worried about losing money...okay.

If the roles were reversed, I'd like to hear the tune that you and everyone else would be singing.

Nobody likes to lose money, no matter what the cause is.

Smoke is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 04:19 PM
  #145
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Transitional Period
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Victoryville
Country: United States
Posts: 25,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
4. The bolded makes it abundantly clear that you did not actually read the report.
I did read it and I'll summarize with this.

Quote:
Four of the most powerful people at The Pennsylvania State University – President Graham B. Spanier, Senior Vice President‐Finance and Business Gary C. Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy M. Curley and Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno – failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade. These men concealed Sandusky’s activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities. They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky’s victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well‐being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assaulted in the Lasch Building in 2001. Further, they exposed this child to additional harm by alerting
Sandusky, who was the only one who knew the child’s identity, of what McQueary saw in the shower on the night of February 9, 2001.

These individuals, unchecked by the Board of Trustees that did not perform its oversight duties, empowered Sandusky to attract potential victims to the campus and football events by allowing him to have continued, unrestricted and unsupervised access to the University’s facilities and affiliation with the University’s prominent football program. Indeed, that continued access provided Sandusky with the very currency that enabled him to attract his victims.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 04:54 PM
  #146
bambamcam4ever
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I did read it and I'll summarize with this.
You'll summarize with their conclusions? There was very little evidence provided by the report to reach that conclusion about Paterno. Maybe they have more information that was not released in that report, I don't know. Paterno certainly could have had a leading role in the cover-up in 2001, but with the evidence provided, I don't know how you can ascertain that.

BTW, the report had very little new information other than 2 or 3 emails.

bambamcam4ever is online now  
Old
07-24-2012, 05:48 PM
  #147
ScOrpik
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 245
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
You'll summarize with their conclusions? There was very little evidence provided by the report to reach that conclusion about Paterno. Maybe they have more information that was not released in that report, I don't know. Paterno certainly could have had a leading role in the cover-up in 2001, but with the evidence provided, I don't know how you can ascertain that.

BTW, the report had very little new information other than 2 or 3 emails.
One of those emails said 'coach is anxious', which Freeh assumed was referencing Joe. However, the subject line was 'Jerry' who was also a coach....could've been talking about either.

The other e-mail says Curley had spoken to Joe sometime before changing his mind. Unfortunately we do not know what that conversation was about because Freeh didn't interview Curley.

They searched through 3 million documents and could only come up with two vague emails to base their assumptions on? Pretty weak to me

ScOrpik is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 09:39 PM
  #148
td_ice
Peter shows the way
 
td_ice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,004
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WVU71 View Post
Ed Bouchette ‏@EdBouchette
#Steelers announce Mike Tomlin contract extension thru 2016
Great news.

td_ice is offline  
Old
07-24-2012, 09:52 PM
  #149
Mr. T
Registered User
 
Mr. T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by td_ice View Post
Great news.
Indeed.

Mr. T is offline  
Old
07-25-2012, 06:00 AM
  #150
edog37
Registered User
 
edog37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Washington DC
Country: United States
Posts: 2,953
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zbynek View Post
Really dude? I took Business Law with Graham Zug, former Penn State wide receiver, and am friends with him on Facebook. This is what he said about the sanctions that vacated all of Penn State's wins since '98:

those games were played, what harm has been caused to the guys who played in them? Did they lose their jobs in their current field of study? The point of it was to change the culture from football only to one where basic human dignity is hopefully restored. That particular sanction was leveled against Paterno, not the players. Good to see perspective in all this.

edog37 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.