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I am a spoiled Wings fan-Talk me off the ledge!

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:02 AM
  #1
Capsized
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I am a spoiled Wings fan-Talk me off the ledge!

Ok I admit it. I am a spoiled Wings fan. I have been watching this team since the mid to late 70s and I have grown accustomed to the success that the teams has enjoyed since the mid 90s. I finally got to a point financially where I could afford season tickets the last few years. In spite of the cap the Wings had been able to ride their previously acquired assets to reasonably successful campaigns up until the last few years. Now Lidstrom is gone, parity has reared its' ugly head and for the first time in 20+ years the playoffs aren't a foregone conclusion. Personally I think our chances of making the playoffs are around 50/50. While I will always root for the Wings to win the Cup I am not happy with the direction of the NHL. If parity has turned the league into a coin toss why should I continue to support the Wings with my money?

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07-16-2012, 09:08 AM
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My quick and dirty statement to you and others like you...we've not seen this team post-Lidstrom and the playoff streak is still intact until it isn't. The worst thing to do is psyche yourself out before anything has actually happened. The default setting with this fanbase for any sign of decline is that this is clearly the end of the Wings as we know it...but nobody knows that for sure until we see it actually happen.

We've enjoyed too much success over the last 15-20 years...any sign of weakness triggers the absolute worst overreactions. I'd equate it to if we were all in a building and they conducted a drill for a nuclear attack...and instead of going about it in an orderly fashion, there is just a mass freak out and people start jumping out of windows and eating each other when in reality, there was nothing to worry about.

For me, I'm lowering my expectations but not to the point where I think they'll miss the playoffs. I'm of the feeling this team is tier below the contenders...they're in second tier of teams in the league. However, I'd call them a darkhorse because it's not like they lost a ton players (a la Chicago following their cup win and they were ravaged by the cap). We've just not seen this defense full time without Nick Lidstrom and the times he's been hurt, they've not looked very good...so I'm sure most fear that this can only go poorly.

The offseason is only two weeks old...they lost out on the two biggest free agents. Anything that doesn't go this team's way immediately leads to panic and overreaction. Spoiled fanbases generally don't have a setting for being patient or just letting things play out. They're either feeling great or terrible...there's no middle ground. Part of me actually thinks some of the Wings fans just wait for something to go wrong so they can go off on the players or Babcock or Holland or Ilitch.

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07-16-2012, 09:21 AM
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If the Wings don't make the playoffs - it won't be because of Lidstrom or Bettman

It will be because Holland chose not to improve the team.

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07-16-2012, 09:42 AM
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If there wasn't any parity, why would fans of the other 29 teams support the league with their money?

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07-16-2012, 09:46 AM
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If there wasn't any parity, why would fans of the other 29 teams support the league with their money?
*Excluding PHX fans.

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07-16-2012, 10:26 AM
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If there wasn't any parity, why would fans of the other 29 teams support the league with their money?
Why did they prior to the cap?

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07-16-2012, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
If the Wings don't make the playoffs - it won't be because of Lidstrom or Bettman

It will be because Holland chose not to improve the team.
I would rather miss the playoffs for three years and then be back on track instead of jumping into dumb contracts with players that may not fit to make them for 3 more years and hope we can make it afterwards. Thinking long term is usually better in my opinion.

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07-16-2012, 10:37 AM
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I would rather miss the playoffs for three years and then be back on track instead of jumping into dumb contracts with players that may not fit to make them for 3 more years and hope we can make it afterwards. Thinking long term is usually better in my opinion.
you are for sure kinda right in what you said but i may ask two things?

1) what bad or dump contracts are people either proposing today that would hurt us three years from now
2) how would you suggest we start today to "get back on track" three years from now?

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Old
07-16-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
If the Wings don't make the playoffs - it won't be because of Lidstrom or Bettman

It will be because Holland chose not to improve the team.


The Wings have lost Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Stuart in a two-year span due to circumstances outside of their control.

Has Holland done a sub-par job of replacing them? Yes, but it's not exactly easy to find players of that caliber.

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07-16-2012, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post


The Wings have lost Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Stuart in a two-year span due to circumstances outside of their control.

Has Holland done a sub-par job of replacing them? Yes, but it's not exactly easy to find players of that caliber.
you're right in that we lost them and we couldnt control them getting older, but, nobody would say they didnt forsee them getting older and leaving the game and needing to be replaced.

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07-16-2012, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post


The Wings have lost Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Stuart in a two-year span due to circumstances outside of their control.

Has Holland done a sub-par job of replacing them? Yes, but it's not exactly easy to find players of that caliber.
It's very easy to find them, there's a player called Keith Yandle over in Phoenix, dunno if you've heard of him, helluva player, just have to sacrifice things, which ken holland never has been willing to do, he doesn't have the balls to pull off heavy trades á Holmgren, Wilson, Chiarelli etc

Sacrifices are sometimes necessary for greater things to happen.

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07-16-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
It's very easy to find them, there's a player called Keith Yandle over in Phoenix, dunno if you've heard of him, helluva player, just have to sacrifice things, which ken holland never has been willing to do, he doesn't have the balls to pull off heavy trades á Holmgren, Wilson, Chiarelli etc

Sacrifices are sometimes necessary for greater things to happen.
Yandle could maybe replace Rafalski's role and production (great scoring and PP dominance, no SH play at all). So how about Lidström and Stuart?

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07-16-2012, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
I would rather miss the playoffs for three years and then be back on track instead of jumping into dumb contracts with players that may not fit to make them for 3 more years and hope we can make it afterwards. Thinking long term is usually better in my opinion.

Is anyone here advocating for "dumb contracts?"

You present it as if Holland had no choice except "dumb contracts" or doing nothing. That's not realistic.

He had reasonable options last offseason, and chose to do virtually nothing

Same as this year.

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07-16-2012, 11:08 AM
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He had reasonable options last offseason, and chose to do virtually nothing

Same as this year.
Who, other than Erik Cole, can you point to when arguing this?

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07-16-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post


The Wings have lost Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Stuart in a two-year span due to circumstances outside of their control.

Has Holland done a sub-par job of replacing them? Yes, but it's not exactly easy to find players of that caliber.
Nobody said it was easy.
Holland hasn't made it any easier on himself with bad moves and non-moves.

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07-16-2012, 11:16 AM
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ashenhigh
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Yandle could maybe replace Rafalski's role and production (great scoring and PP dominance, no SH play at all). So how about Lidström and Stuart?
Considering the Power-play has been completely awful, so bad that I don't remember it ever being like this.... I'd say it would be a great pickup. PKing defensemen are usually much easier to find and trade for and don't cost as much. usually...

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07-16-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ricelund View Post
Who, other than Erik Cole, can you point to when arguing this?
Ehrhoff
Fleischmann
Wisniewski
Fleischmann
Ryder
Jovanovski
Semin
Kostitsyn
Kaberle
Rozsival

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07-16-2012, 11:39 AM
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Ricelund
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Nobody said it was easy.
Holland hasn't made it any easier on himself with bad moves and non-moves.
Again, what non-moves are you referring to other than Erik Cole?

The only reasonable deals I could've seen working are Fleischmann and Ehrhoff.

I'm disappointed with Holland too, but you can't expect him to trade Quincey and Abdelkader for a top-10 defenseman like you've been suggesting. If the trade's not out there, he can't make it.

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07-16-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Yandle could maybe replace Rafalski's role and production (great scoring and PP dominance, no SH play at all). So how about Lidström and Stuart?
Lidström didn't play much SH in his last season, during the end and in the playoffs - nothing.

Rafalski was just offense during his final years

So Yandle would easily replace Lidstrom á 11/12 and Rafalski 2009-2011 combined.

So replace Stuart with a safe stay-at-home hard hitting defenseman that can also kill penalties.

Problem solved.

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07-16-2012, 11:40 AM
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Yandle could maybe replace Rafalski's role and production (great scoring and PP dominance, no SH play at all). So how about Lidström and Stuart?
Yandle is younger. But since he's a lefty, I don't see much reason to bring him in.

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07-16-2012, 11:40 AM
  #21
Ricelund
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Ehrhoff
Fleischmann
Wisniewski
Fleischmann
Ryder
Jovanovski
Semin
Kostitsyn
Kaberle
Rozsival
Fleischmann and Ryder are the only ones I would've taken from that list and I can understand why the Wings didn't want to take a risk on them.

Semin and Rozsival are still UFAs.

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07-16-2012, 11:43 AM
  #22
mindfly
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Yandle is younger. But since he's a lefty, I don't see much reason to bring him in.
Right handed is not the most important thing.

And many players can play and/or adapt to playing the other side of the D.

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07-16-2012, 11:48 AM
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ZetterBurger
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Ehrhoff
Fleischmann
Wisniewski
Ryder
Jovanovski
Semin
Kostitsyn
Kaberle
Rozsival
Don't add names of players that wouldn't help us just to make the list longer. Semin hasn't signed yet. Wiz got way too much money and who is to say they didn't make offers to Ryder, Fleischmann or Cole and those players just turned the Wings down? That list of players doesn't really prove anything it's just a bunch of players that you can now look back on as evidence of KH doing a poor job, when really you have no clue.

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07-16-2012, 11:50 AM
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Yandle is younger. But since he's a lefty, I don't see much reason to bring him in.
Would you rather bring in an old, stale right handed shot or a much, much more talented and valuable player that has a left handed shot? Those are your options for this season unless Weber is coming here somehow.

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07-16-2012, 11:51 AM
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Lidström didn't play much SH in his last season,
Lidström played 117 minutes SH at last season. Yandle has played 132 SH minutes in his career.

Gives some perspective.

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