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PK Subban being shopped ?

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Old
07-16-2012, 04:52 PM
  #126
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Wow...

All of this because Subban refused an offer the Habs basically were REQUIRED to make, unless they wanted Subban to become an UFA.

I mean, do any of you really thought Subban would accept a 1.0M, 1YR deal? Because, if im not getting it wrong, that was the QO.
That's not what the OP said. yes, subban rejected his QO which is normal but the other speculation is entirely different. Is it possible it's linked and overblown? Absolutely, but for sake of discussion what you're saying wasn't presented as the reason.

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Old
07-16-2012, 05:07 PM
  #127
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[QUOTE=BernieParent;52596423] While it is GM Bergevin's job to maximize the return on a deal, especially when trading a talent like Subban, you do realize that he would not be in the position of relative strength if he's trading him because they can't agree on a deal.

How many teams would show interest in PK *IF* he were to be shopped? I don't think I would be going out on a limb if I were to say, oh, 29 teams. PK surely rubs a lot of hockey fans the wrong way, but I would hazard a guess that those fans' GMs would want him in their lineup regardless of the fact a few of their fans don't like his style/attitude/antics. You'd likely have a few teams with internal budgets or cap crunches that wouldn't be able to fit him in, but every team would at least make an inquiry. So, even if Bergevin and Meehan can't settle on term or dollars, an offer from your team would have to beat out A LOT of other offers. I'd call that a position of strength for Bergevin. PK has a lot of RFA years left - that would be a pretty long holdout if he decides he wants to really play hardball. What would Big Karl, his Habs fan father, who PK speaks of with a mixture of reverence, respect and fear, have to say to him if he tries to holdout? Bergevin isn't going to stop at an insulting offer. His final offer will be very fair. PK's has the same agent as Doughty. Meehan eventually got Lombardi to cave to a higher-than-Kopitar cap hit, but what we're likely seeing is just a waiting game to maximize Bergevin's offer.

Among defensemen last season, PK was 28th in points. 18th in ice time - 48th at even-strength and on the penalty kill and 21st on the power play. So, 1st pairing in all situations. A #1 D, period, full stop. In his second season. Who cares how "inexperienced" he is if he's already capable of this 2 seasons into his career. Yes, he's a #1 amongst a pretty weak D-corps but there aren't a whole lot of teams he wouldn't play his way onto the 1st pairing of in a half-season. Chicago. That's probably it. (Yes, Phoenix has OEL and Yandle - both arguably better than him now and going forward, but even their fans think they won't play on the same pair.)

PK will remain a Canadien, but lets play the game anyways. If we're to believe the basis of this speculation, the sticking point is term. So you could offer-sheet him, but the Habs would probably match....if I had to guess, up to Markov money - 5.75M, maybe a tad more, but likely not Doughty money. (Just who does he hypothetically think he is?!) Bergevin might not match a ridiculous offer-sheet, but I define "ridiculous" in this case as a looong term. But remember, RFA compensation for offer sheets goes by cap hit *until you go over five years.* If it's a six or seven or eight year offer, the sum of the contract is divided by 5 years to determine the compensation bracket. So, a 7 year, 6 million per offer is (7*6)/5, so suddenly, in this hypothetical, while the cap hit fits into the 1st, 2nd and a 3rd compensation bracket, the rules dictate that compensation is 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd. That's the ballpark offers in this thread should be in. Personally, I wouldn't be offering Markov-money, and I doubt Bergevin is either, but that's probably around the price it would take to walk away from him. So that Voracek/Meszaros/+ (was there even a +?) offer is a very unfunny joke. None of the offers in this thread from other teams are remotely close, not even as starting points for conversations.

Let's remember that the lifeblood of sports radio is strong opinions - whether those offering these opinions believe them or not. It's summer in Montreal, what else is there to captivate listeners than outlandish claims and ridiculous fabrications? PK will be a Hab until someone offers Bergevin more than he is worth. More than a 23 year old #1D is worth. Who wants to offer a pre-UFA #1 D + for PK Subban? Who wants to offer their 1st, 2nd and 3rd in 2013 and their 1st in 2014? I think at that price, every single other GM and all of us armchair GM's would prefer to look at a different player.

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Old
07-16-2012, 05:51 PM
  #128
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I think Snow would. Subban is elite talent. Media makes him out to be a bad guy. I would take him on my team any day. The Isles could definitely use him. Isles fans are getting restless. I know we made some trades to make our team better but Subban is a different level. Plus he is good buddies with JT. JT could coach this team if he wanted to, wouldnt be surprised if he was behind the scenes asking for certain players. This is his team.

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07-16-2012, 05:55 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Perro View Post
Voynov, Gagne, and a 3rd
not even a second? the kings would be idiots not to take that. Subban is on another planer from Slava.

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Old
07-16-2012, 06:05 PM
  #130
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You dont even need Gagne in that deal. Excellent proposal though. Voynov is a nice player, should get more respect. I would think that the Kings hold on to Voynov though.

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07-16-2012, 06:07 PM
  #131
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Bergeron & Caron

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Old
07-16-2012, 06:08 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Yashin for President View Post
You dont even need Gagne in that deal. Excellent proposal though. Voynov is a nice player, should get more respect. I would think that the Kings hold on to Voynov though.
Shouldn't be an issue because Montreal wouldn't make that deal.

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07-16-2012, 06:12 PM
  #133
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He will not be traded at all.

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Old
07-16-2012, 06:49 PM
  #134
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Habs laugh
They are pretty funny to watch.















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Old
07-16-2012, 07:29 PM
  #135
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Brayden Schenn + Luke Schenn

for

Subban + Thrower

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Old
07-16-2012, 07:31 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
Brayden Schenn + Luke Schenn

for

Subban + Thrower
That's not that bad... I rage when I see Subban involved in proposals but this one is decent. Change Brayden to Couturier and I will like it even more, though I understand the brother angle.

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Old
07-16-2012, 07:38 PM
  #137
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[QUOTE=Deaner;52605951]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
While it is GM Bergevin's job to maximize the return on a deal, especially when trading a talent like Subban, you do realize that he would not be in the position of relative strength if he's trading him because they can't agree on a deal.

How many teams would show interest in PK *IF* he were to be shopped? I don't think I would be going out on a limb if I were to say, oh, 29 teams. PK surely rubs a lot of hockey fans the wrong way, but I would hazard a guess that those fans' GMs would want him in their lineup regardless of the fact a few of their fans don't like his style/attitude/antics. You'd likely have a few teams with internal budgets or cap crunches that wouldn't be able to fit him in, but every team would at least make an inquiry. So, even if Bergevin and Meehan can't settle on term or dollars, an offer from your team would have to beat out A LOT of other offers. I'd call that a position of strength for Bergevin. PK has a lot of RFA years left - that would be a pretty long holdout if he decides he wants to really play hardball. What would Big Karl, his Habs fan father, who PK speaks of with a mixture of reverence, respect and fear, have to say to him if he tries to holdout? Bergevin isn't going to stop at an insulting offer. His final offer will be very fair. PK's has the same agent as Doughty. Meehan eventually got Lombardi to cave to a higher-than-Kopitar cap hit, but what we're likely seeing is just a waiting game to maximize Bergevin's offer.

Among defensemen last season, PK was 28th in points. 18th in ice time - 48th at even-strength and on the penalty kill and 21st on the power play. So, 1st pairing in all situations. A #1 D, period, full stop. In his second season. Who cares how "inexperienced" he is if he's already capable of this 2 seasons into his career. Yes, he's a #1 amongst a pretty weak D-corps but there aren't a whole lot of teams he wouldn't play his way onto the 1st pairing of in a half-season. Chicago. That's probably it. (Yes, Phoenix has OEL and Yandle - both arguably better than him now and going forward, but even their fans think they won't play on the same pair.)

PK will remain a Canadien, but lets play the game anyways. If we're to believe the basis of this speculation, the sticking point is term. So you could offer-sheet him, but the Habs would probably match....if I had to guess, up to Markov money - 5.75M, maybe a tad more, but likely not Doughty money. (Just who does he hypothetically think he is?!) Bergevin might not match a ridiculous offer-sheet, but I define "ridiculous" in this case as a looong term. But remember, RFA compensation for offer sheets goes by cap hit *until you go over five years.* If it's a six or seven or eight year offer, the sum of the contract is divided by 5 years to determine the compensation bracket. So, a 7 year, 6 million per offer is (7*6)/5, so suddenly, in this hypothetical, while the cap hit fits into the 1st, 2nd and a 3rd compensation bracket, the rules dictate that compensation is 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd. That's the ballpark offers in this thread should be in. Personally, I wouldn't be offering Markov-money, and I doubt Bergevin is either, but that's probably around the price it would take to walk away from him. So that Voracek/Meszaros/+ (was there even a +?) offer is a very unfunny joke. None of the offers in this thread from other teams are remotely close, not even as starting points for conversations.

Let's remember that the lifeblood of sports radio is strong opinions - whether those offering these opinions believe them or not. It's summer in Montreal, what else is there to captivate listeners than outlandish claims and ridiculous fabrications? PK will be a Hab until someone offers Bergevin more than he is worth. More than a 23 year old #1D is worth. Who wants to offer a pre-UFA #1 D + for PK Subban? Who wants to offer their 1st, 2nd and 3rd in 2013 and their 1st in 2014? I think at that price, every single other GM and all of us armchair GM's would prefer to look at a different player.
You don't post often enough on these boards.

Cheers!

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Old
07-16-2012, 07:40 PM
  #138
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I don't know what the problem is, but I'll gladly take Pernell Karl on the Devils!

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07-16-2012, 07:43 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaner View Post
How many teams would show interest in PK *IF* he were to be shopped? I don't think I would be going out on a limb if I were to say, oh, 29 teams. PK surely rubs a lot of hockey fans the wrong way, but I would hazard a guess that those fans' GMs would want him in their lineup regardless of the fact a few of their fans don't like his style/attitude/antics. You'd likely have a few teams with internal budgets or cap crunches that wouldn't be able to fit him in, but every team would at least make an inquiry. So, even if Bergevin and Meehan can't settle on term or dollars, an offer from your team would have to beat out A LOT of other offers. I'd call that a position of strength for Bergevin. PK has a lot of RFA years left - that would be a pretty long holdout if he decides he wants to really play hardball. What would Big Karl, his Habs fan father, who PK speaks of with a mixture of reverence, respect and fear, have to say to him if he tries to holdout? Bergevin isn't going to stop at an insulting offer. His final offer will be very fair. PK's has the same agent as Doughty. Meehan eventually got Lombardi to cave to a higher-than-Kopitar cap hit, but what we're likely seeing is just a waiting game to maximize Bergevin's offer.
I don't see Bergevin caving into Meehan's demands. There's no reason to, as long as Bergevin gets more in return than Subban is worth, which is easily attainable.

That's what attitude will get you. Bergevin holds all the cards here, PK either realizes and accepts it or see you later.

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Old
07-16-2012, 07:47 PM
  #140
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Got the rumor on TSN 990 radio, rumor saying Subban want a big long term contract and the Habs do not want to do it so soon (he just got 2 seasons of experience), problems in negociation and Habs are thinking about Plan B.

As a Habs fan I find it a VERY risky move to trade Subban ! Do not want another McDonagh trade !
You'll actually get good value for him unlike McDonagh. Well hopefully.

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Old
07-16-2012, 07:49 PM
  #141
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Wouldn't want that attitude on my team... Greatly skilled player and I would love to have him in a few years but he still has a lot of growing up to do in the league.
Don't be mad PK Subban is the "IT" factor of professional hockey. These kind of D-men only come along once in a generation. Not only if he skilled, but he has that swagger that oozes confidence into the whole team.

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07-16-2012, 07:49 PM
  #142
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Montreal might best served trading him before he goes the way of Phaneuf in Calgary.

Problem is -- other teams will likely be wary of the fact that he still hasn't had the major reality check he needs to become a good defenceman in this league for the long haul. I suspect that if the Canadiens can find a way to get him to a reasonable 3-4 year deal, he'll actually be worth more in a year once he falls out of favour.

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Old
07-16-2012, 07:50 PM
  #143
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Even Bruins' fans would swallow their pride for this guy on their team at the right price.

Doubt he's being shopped.

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Old
07-16-2012, 07:52 PM
  #144
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Montreal would probably best served trading him before he goes the way of Phaneuf in Calgary.

Problem is -- other teams will likely be wary of the fact that he still hasn't had his major reality check.
He's overcome a lot of adversity already, he will be fine.

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07-16-2012, 07:55 PM
  #145
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He's overcome a lot of adversity already, he will be fine.
Yeah I think he will long term, he just needs to fall out of favour and get a reality check like Phaneuf did. Question is whether you trade him before or after the reality check.

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:00 PM
  #146
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Yeah I think he will long term, he just needs to fall out of favour and get a reality check like Phaneuf did. Question is whether you trade him before or after the reality check.
Do you watch the canadiens or are you making up **** on the spot?

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:04 PM
  #147
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saw it coming all along

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:06 PM
  #148
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Why not? He is quickly becoming the face of the Canadiens franchise.
Pfft. Yeah right. So let's just throw a ridiculous contract at him because fans like him.

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Old
07-16-2012, 08:06 PM
  #149
poetryinmotion
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Yeah I think he will long term, he just needs to fall out of favour and get a reality check like Phaneuf did. Question is whether you trade him before or after the reality check.
Well for one, he won't be traded, and I am quite confident in stating that. But what makes you think he needs "an other" reality check? He's been benched twice already and came back to play godly hockey... he's going in his 3rd year now, I think he's past all the trials and tribulations.

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07-16-2012, 08:07 PM
  #150
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Yeah I think he will long term, he just needs to fall out of favour and get a reality check like Phaneuf did. Question is whether you trade him before or after the reality check.
What? Phaneuf is dumb as a box of rocks and he isn't very good despite the wish casting around Toronto. There isn't a comparison.

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