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Old
04-18-2013, 01:05 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by theotis77 View Post
I totally agree. CGI and high-quality effects are waaaaaay too mainstream for my tastes. They should be doing this movie with marionette puppets and Harryhausen stop-motion animation.
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04-18-2013, 01:38 PM
  #327
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Haha I would hardly call Nolan's Batman universe "depressing" so much as a valiant effort at basing a fantasy world in reality.
It's a very depressing universe. I mean look at the Dark Knight Returns.

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How uplifting is Batman anyway
I take it that you never watched Batman the Animated Series or ANY of the Paul Dini cartoons? Because Batman can be very uplifting. His struggle to get over his parents' death and his accomplishments as Batman is very uplifting. His relationship with Alfred is also one of the best in comics.

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I mean his whole origin is a little boy who sees his parents murdered in front of him?
So that means every superhero should be dark, morose, and depressing?

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Anyone saying that Superman doesn't deserve the same treatment is just being "hip". I mean his whole planet is destroyed, not to mention the man himself is killed in the comics.
OR those that like these 'reality' superheroes are the hipsters because it's cool to relate! I mean right? Superheroes are just that superheroes in a fantasy world. Superman definitely deserves a different treatment than being a brooding, dark superhero. He is the Boy Scout for Godsakes. The All American superhero. The shining knight.

Yes he has the Fortress of Solitude and he occasionally broods but if you read JMS' run and many other runs, even when brooding, he is an uplifting and bright star.

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04-18-2013, 01:47 PM
  #328
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I find the current gen Batman universe tries to be so unrelentingly bleak that it's turned itself into a caricature. It's more comical than anything.

I don't see how a depressed, angst-ridden rebooting of Superman expands the entertainment quotient. Edgy isn't edgy anymore - you want to do edgy, make him a unrelentingly positive beacon of hope.


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04-18-2013, 01:58 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I find the current gen Batman universe tries to be so unrelentingly bleak that it's turned itself into a caricature. It's more comical than anything.

I don't see how a depressed, angst-ridden rebooting of Superman expands the entertainment quotient. Edgy isn't edgy anymore - you want to edgy, make him a unrelentingly positive beacon of hope.
Exactly. Thanks Dado.

I think Batman Begins was a great way to kick off the Batman series but then it just got worse and worse.

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04-18-2013, 02:19 PM
  #330
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Okaaay...

How long is this supposed to be? Looks like they're trying to pack a lot of stuff into it: origin, childhood, learning about powers, going emo, realizing he does have a pair, big fight with villain. I fear there's a chance of falling asleep during the first two hours of it before the action begins in the last hour.
According to reports, the film will be about 2 hours and 20 minutes long.

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04-18-2013, 02:26 PM
  #331
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Heeeeelll no. You can't do proper superheroes in a depressing world, there needs to a sense of wonder, enjoyment, thrill ride. I mean, I've recently spent 8 seasons of seeing Clark Kent/Kal-EL growing up and becoming Superman. I'd rather not watch it again in a compressed form.
Smallville's Kal-El was somewhat mostly inspired by Christopher Reeve's superman. This Kal-El is more similar to the modern Superman of the comics. You cannot make a successful and modern Superman film if you want the audience to remember the Superman of past films/shows.

Plus, for the first time ever, Krypton and Jor-El will be a major factor in a Superman film/show, for good reason. As such, you cannot ignore Superman's childhood, you need to retell it. Plus, they will be retelling his origins in a much more complex fashion, keeping with the modern Superman of the comics.

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04-18-2013, 02:26 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
I take it that you never watched Batman the Animated Series or ANY of the Paul Dini cartoons? Because Batman can be very uplifting. His struggle to get over his parents' death and his accomplishments as Batman is very uplifting. His relationship with Alfred is also one of the best in comics.
Yeeeah...I guess that's one artist's interpretation. But I dunno. We're talking about a character who was driven to madness by the death of his parents, becomes obessive compulsive, dresses like a Bat to deliver his facist form of justice, lives in the worst, most crime-ridden city in the world...and for every baddie he takes down 3 even more deadly, obsessed baddies spring up. The only thing holding him together is his butler. Not a lot of Joy-Joy feelings in the Batman world.

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04-18-2013, 02:32 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
It's a very depressing universe. I mean look at the Dark Knight Returns.



I take it that you never watched Batman the Animated Series or ANY of the Paul Dini cartoons? Because Batman can be very uplifting. His struggle to get over his parents' death and his accomplishments as Batman is very uplifting. His relationship with Alfred is also one of the best in comics.



So that means every superhero should be dark, morose, and depressing?



OR those that like these 'reality' superheroes are the hipsters because it's cool to relate! I mean right? Superheroes are just that superheroes in a fantasy world. Superman definitely deserves a different treatment than being a brooding, dark superhero. He is the Boy Scout for Godsakes. The All American superhero. The shining knight.

Yes he has the Fortress of Solitude and he occasionally broods but if you read JMS' run and many other runs, even when brooding, he is an uplifting and bright star.
What in the world makes you think that he will be a dark superhero? What makes you think that he won't be uplifting and bright star in the film? I have been following this film for three years, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that Superman won't be the beacon of hope that he's always been. In fact, the synopsis for the film mentions that he will be a beacon of hope.

Goyer, Snyder, and Nolan have all mentioned in numerous interviews that Superman will not be a dark character, he is not Batman. However, He will be the beacon of hope in a dark world. Superman's first appearance was in 1938 when the world was very dark during the depression. Superman shines brightest when the world is darkest; that's what we are getting with this film.

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04-18-2013, 02:37 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I find the current gen Batman universe tries to be so unrelentingly bleak that it's turned itself into a caricature. It's more comical than anything.

I don't see how a depressed, angst-ridden rebooting of Superman expands the entertainment quotient. Edgy isn't edgy anymore - you want to do edgy, make him a unrelentingly positive beacon of hope.
Again, this is exactly what they are doing. Seems very clear to me that those of you saying stuff like this have not been following the film. Not following the film is fine, but if you haven't been following the film, why make comments like this?

I even posted this sypnosis of the film when starting the thread:
The Synopsis:

In the pantheon of superheroes, Superman is the most recognized and revered character of all time. Clark Kent/Kal-El (Henry Cavill) is a young twenty-something journalist who feels alienated by powers beyond his imagination. Transported years ago to Earth from Krypton, a highly advanced, distant planet, Clark struggles with the ultimate question ‘Why am I here?’ Shaped by the values of his adoptive parents Martha (Diane Lane) and Jonathan Kent (Kevin Costner), Clark discovers having extraordinary abilities means making difficult decisions. When the world is in dire need of stability, an even greater threat emerges. Clark must become a Man of Steel, to protect the people he loves and shine as the world’s beacon of hope – Superman.



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04-18-2013, 03:01 PM
  #335
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Entertainment Weekly posted a new article on the Man of Steel trailer/plot. It contains some GREAT details/mild spoilers on the film:

Spoil:
At its core, Man of Steel is as much an alien invasion story as a superhero tale. Case in point: This object wedged into eons of arctic ice looks like an extra-terrestrial mothership, and that’s exactly what it is. Superman fans also know it by another name: The Fortress of Solitude.

This is Superman’s home base, his HQ, where he goes to get away from the distractions of Earth life and reconnect with his Kryptonian roots.
In the Richard Donner-directed Christopher Reeve films, the Fortress builds itself from a crystal that was included in the intergalactic bassinet that Superman’s father, Jor-El, dispatched to Earth. Hurled into the arctic wasteland, the object sprouted into a jagged crystal palace. Kind of like Magic Rocks, only epic.
Man of Steel changes up the formula a little. Instead of building his own Fortress, Clark Kent steps into the existing home market — and emerges, as we see below, as Superman. The residents of Krypton are an advanced race, keep in mind. Their knowledge and exploration of the cosmos far surpasses our own, and when Jor-El launches his son to Earth, our planet isn’t unknown to them.

Superman isn’t the first citizen of his world to visit us, and the Fortress is proof. It is a massive craft left behind by a previous group of Kryptonian pioneers.
Screenwriter David S. Goyer, who also co-wrote The Dark Knight trilogy, describes Man of Steel as “a first contact story.”
“Even if he didn’t have superpowers it would literally be the biggest story that ever happened in human history. It would change the face of the Earth forever. Just his existence would,” Goyer told EW. “I think it was in one of the Donner films — which I adore — but I think there’s a moment where Lois Lane is interviewing Clark and says, ‘So you’re from Krypton, huh?’ and he says ‘Yeah,’ and then they just kind of drop it. He just said he’s from an alien world! And everybody just accepts it. I just thought the idea that we would treat [Man of Steel] as a first contact story was in a strange way it was kind of a big idea because everything sort of follows from that. So that was one of the Eureka Moments.”

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2013/04/1...s-new-trailer/

The article is 6 pages long, but it's well worth it.

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04-18-2013, 03:02 PM
  #336
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Again, this is exactly what they are doing.
Doesn't look like it to me. A reluctant, confused superhero struggling with "why am i here?" is not edgy, it's old. And it's certainly not wall-to-wall "beacon of light".

A bold approach would be to have a character who IS a "Man of Steel" instead of another mopy emo character trying to BECOME a "Man of Steel".

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04-18-2013, 03:04 PM
  #337
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I really love the approach outlined in that spoiler box.

I was pretty "meh" about having another Superman movie in the mix, but I'm starting to really look forward to this.

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04-18-2013, 03:29 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Doesn't look like it to me. A reluctant, confused superhero struggling with "why am i here?" is not edgy, it's old. And it's certainly not wall-to-wall "beacon of light".

A bold approach would be to have a character who IS a "Man of Steel" instead of another mopy emo character trying to BECOME a "Man of Steel".
Relectant? Mopy emo? Please tell me what in the film that makes you think this is the case? Unless you think that a boy becoming frightened after learning about his alien nature makes him a reluctant, mopy emo?

There is nothing to suggest that Clark will be a reluctant or emo character in this film, the last two trailers prove you wrong. Lois Lane suggests that Clark has been saving people for several years, the last two trailers show Clark saving people in at-least three major scenes before he comes Superman.

Moreover, in the conversation between young Clark and his father in the second trailer, Clark makes it clearly known to him that he wants to save people despite his father's fears.

Yet you somehow believe that he is a reluctant hero? Okay. If an alien like Clark Kent is struggling to find his place in the world, it doesn't make him a mopy emo, it makes him a more 'realistic' character.

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04-18-2013, 03:37 PM
  #339
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New Man of Steel still:


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04-18-2013, 03:53 PM
  #340
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There is nothing to suggest that Clark will be a reluctant or emo character in this film...
Even in that clip, the guy is hiding from himself by auditioning for "Deadliest Catch" instead of being out there being who he really is.

I'm sure it will be a very well made film. And I'm sure lots of folks will thoroughly enjoy it. It's all cool. I just don't expect it to show me anything new.

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If an alien like Clark Kent is struggling to find his place in the world, it doesn't make him a mopy emo, it makes him a more 'realistic' character.
Yes, I know. That's exactly the point - it's what's old about this approach, and done to death. I don't want yet another portrayal of a superhero as a "more realistic character", I want a damn straight-up superhero.

And **** the carbon fibre body suit - put him back in primary colours! Now THAT would be edgy!

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04-18-2013, 04:02 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Even in that clip, the guy is hiding from himself by auditioning for "Deadliest Catch" instead of being out there being who he really is.

I'm sure it will be a very well made film. And I'm sure lots of folks will thoroughly enjoy it. It's all cool. I just don't expect it to show me anything new.



Yes, I know. That's exactly the point - it's what's old about this approach, and done to death. I don't want yet another portrayal of a superhero as a "more realistic character", I want a damn straight-up superhero.

And **** the carbon fibre body suit - put him back in primary colours! Now THAT would be edgy!
He isn't really hiding from himself though. What exactly is "himself"? At that point, he doesn't know anything about who he is, except that he is an alien from another world.

He comes Superman after he discovers who he is in the Fortress of Solitude, and when Zod shows up. Until then it's impossible for him to be the hero he becomes when he doesn't know who he is and what to do.

Looks to me like Superman will be both a superhero and a more realistic portrayal of what would happen if an alien was discovered on earth

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04-18-2013, 04:46 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Even in that clip, the guy is hiding from himself by auditioning for "Deadliest Catch" instead of being out there being who he really is.

I'm sure it will be a very well made film. And I'm sure lots of folks will thoroughly enjoy it. It's all cool. I just don't expect it to show me anything new.



Yes, I know. That's exactly the point - it's what's old about this approach, and done to death. I don't want yet another portrayal of a superhero as a "more realistic character", I want a damn straight-up superhero.

And **** the carbon fibre body suit - put him back in primary colours! Now THAT would be edgy!
People don't enjoy super heroes without flaws. People enjoy heroes, but they need to be relatable. If it just started up and he was an unstoppable badass, it would be boring.

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04-18-2013, 04:47 PM
  #343
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Yeeeah...I guess that's one artist's interpretation. But I dunno.
I hate this argument. Batman and Robin was another artist's interpretation. Acting is horrible yes but it was like the Adam West campy version, so the acting is suppose to be horrible.

Quote:
We're talking about a character who was driven to madness by the death of his parents, becomes obessive compulsive, dresses like a Bat to deliver his facist form of justice, lives in the worst, most crime-ridden city in the world...and for every baddie he takes down 3 even more deadly, obsessed baddies spring up. The only thing holding him together is his butler. Not a lot of Joy-Joy feelings in the Batman world.
Not necessarily his butler but Gordon and the police force. While Batman is obsessive in his pursuit of justice, he isn't a mopy billionaire. That's what I liked about the first Batman is that it shows two sides of a person.

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What in the world makes you think that he will be a dark superhero?
Most of the trailer. It shows him traveling around the world. His dark costume. His beard. Hitchhiking? On a boat?

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What makes you think that he won't be uplifting and bright star in the film? I have been following this film for three years, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that Superman won't be the beacon of hope that he's always been. In fact, the synopsis for the film mentions that he will be a beacon of hope.
By being emo? By going around the world looking all depressed?

Quote:
Goyer, Snyder, and Nolan have all mentioned in numerous interviews that Superman will not be a dark character, he is not Batman. However, He will be the beacon of hope in a dark world. Superman's first appearance was in 1938 when the world was very dark during the depression. Superman shines brightest when the world is darkest; that's what we are getting with this film.
Trailers don't definitely show it. How much of the movie is him trying to find himself?

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04-18-2013, 04:48 PM
  #344
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It's a very depressing universe. I mean look at the Dark Knight Returns.
You mean the one where he stops a terrorist(dark but plausible) inexplicably saves the city and lives? Ya that a was a downer ending.


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I take it that you never watched Batman the Animated Series or ANY of the Paul Dini cartoons? Because Batman can be very uplifting. His struggle to get over his parents' death and his accomplishments as Batman is very uplifting. His relationship with Alfred is also one of the best in comics.
You mean the Batman Animated Series aimed for children? Ya weird they didn't go that route with their adult oriented movie. I mean everyone loved Batman and Robin, right....RIGHT? And there was nothing at all touching about his relationship with Alfred in the new trilogy.



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So that means every superhero should be dark, morose, and depressing?
No not at all and not close to what I said, but Batman's story literally involves him lurking in the shadows.



Anyways that's just my response as to how stupid it is to say Man of Steel will be as dark and shadowy as The Dark Knight Trilogy based on the fact Nolan's involved coupled with a 3 minute trailer, the last 30 seconds of which being a joke about his costume.

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04-18-2013, 04:59 PM
  #345
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You mean the one where he stops a terrorist(dark but plausible) inexplicably saves the city and lives? Ya that a was a downer ending.
The entire movie was a bit of a downer. Have you forgotten the first part of the movie? Have you forgotten about the Dark Knight? Or the majority of where Batman was? Where the hell was Bruce Wayne?

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You mean the Batman Animated Series aimed for children? Ya weird they didn't go that route with their adult oriented movie. I mean everyone loved Batman and Robin, right....RIGHT? And there was nothing at all touching about his relationship with Alfred in the new trilogy.
Not really. If you think the Animated Series was just aimed for children, I don't know what to say. It was one of the darker shows in the 90s and is considered to be one of the best cartoons of all time by ADULTS.

Batman and Robin was another artistic interpretation of the franchise like the old Adam West shows.


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No not at all and not close to what I said, but Batman's story literally involves him lurking in the shadows.
Yes, he lurks in the shadows and he is the 'loner' of the Justice League but he has a family now. He's the grounding factor to the Justice League and is the ying to Superman's yang. The entire movie just seemed like one depressing, angsty film that ignored many aspects of who Batman was.

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Anyways that's just my response as to how stupid it is to say Man of Steel will be as dark and shadowy as The Dark Knight Trilogy based on the fact Nolan's involved coupled with a 3 minute trailer, the last 30 seconds of which being a joke about his costume.
It's not going to be as dark but it still is a dark film for what Superman is. Or did you ignore the entire segments of him traveling around the world ALONE?

The entire trailer like Dado said feels very angsty and emo.

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04-18-2013, 05:17 PM
  #346
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It's not going to be as dark but it still is a dark film for what Superman is. Or did you ignore the entire segments of him traveling around the world ALONE?

The entire trailer like Dado said feels very angsty and emo.
That is some flawless logic you have there...so you're telling me that an alien who travels around the world, has no idea of his origins, and in search of trying to find out who he really is, and where he comes from, makes for a dark film? There is nothing on the three trailers that signify that Kal-El is going to be a dark character, or that he is going to be driven by melancholia. If he was, then why become Superman when the rest of the world alienated you from becoming a part of their society? If anything, it's the world around him that's dark, and he's the character that tries to set things right on Earth with the powers that has been gifted to him. But he cannot get to that point without finding out his purpose and origins, and what Jor-El set out for him.

This is different from Nolan's Batman in that Batman is a man driven by melancholia and anger due to his parents deaths from a lowly criminal. He immersed himself into the criminal world to understand the intricate workings of criminality and finds himself fearless of Carmine Falcone and his criminal underworld. He worked for a criminal organization under Ra's Al Ghul so he could become a symbolic figure and exact revenge on criminality. Batman is literally the persona of anger at work, you don't see that same anger with Kal-El.

Hence, when he discovers that he is Kal-El from Krypton and has been bestowed with powers that no one else has (at least not on Earth), that's when he decides to use them for good (and as such, live up to the hopes and dreams that Jor-El and Lara set out for him). That's when he's able to make the choice of saving the world...It's a hell of a lot more realistic to have this journey to allow him to discover himself, rather than to simply say "oh hurr durr I can shot fire from eyes, I will save world then!"

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04-18-2013, 05:34 PM
  #347
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I hate this argument. Batman and Robin was another artist's interpretation. Acting is horrible yes but it was like the Adam West campy version, so the acting is suppose to be horrible.



Not necessarily his butler but Gordon and the police force. While Batman is obsessive in his pursuit of justice, he isn't a mopy billionaire. That's what I liked about the first Batman is that it shows two sides of a person.



Most of the trailer. It shows him traveling around the world. His dark costume. His beard. Hitchhiking? On a boat?



By being emo? By going around the world looking all depressed?



Trailers don't definitely show it. How much of the movie is him trying to find himself?
Wait Wait, you think He is going to be a Dark character because his suit isn't bright as Reeve's version in the late 70s and 80s? Then you mention his beard, boats, and hitch-hiking? What in the world?

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04-18-2013, 06:37 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I find the current gen Batman universe tries to be so unrelentingly bleak that it's turned itself into a caricature. It's more comical than anything.

I don't see how a depressed, angst-ridden rebooting of Superman expands the entertainment quotient. Edgy isn't edgy anymore - you want to do edgy, make him a unrelentingly positive beacon of hope.
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Exactly. Thanks Dado.

I think Batman Begins was a great way to kick off the Batman series but then it just got worse and worse.
Couldn't agree more with these two. It's time to focus more putting entertaining, positive stuff instead of pleasing hipster emos (or hemos as I call them) with characters that mire in misery all the time. Let the hemos keep watching "Requiem for a dream" on constant loop if the want to wallow in misery.

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Smallville's Kal-El was somewhat mostly inspired by Christopher Reeve's superman. This Kal-El is more similar to the modern Superman of the comics. You cannot make a successful and modern Superman film if you want the audience to remember the Superman of past films/shows.

Plus, for the first time ever, Krypton and Jor-El will be a major factor in a Superman film/show, for good reason. As such, you cannot ignore Superman's childhood, you need to retell it. Plus, they will be retelling his origins in a much more complex fashion, keeping with the modern Superman of the comics.
Define "complex".

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04-18-2013, 08:42 PM
  #349
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Couldn't agree more with these two. It's time to focus more putting entertaining, positive stuff instead of pleasing hipster emos (or hemos as I call them) with characters that mire in misery all the time. Let the hemos keep watching "Requiem for a dream" on constant loop if the want to wallow in misery.
How is Kal-El in any way, shape or form, "wallowing in misery" in the trailers...? All it is, is a man going on a journey to find his purpose in life. Just because Nolan is producing the film, doesn't mean that Kal-El is automatically grounded into a state of misery/melancholia the entire film.

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04-18-2013, 09:10 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala View Post
Exactly. Thanks Dado.

I think Batman Begins was a great way to kick off the Batman series but then it just got worse and worse.
Batman got worse and worse because Christopher Nolan's idea of entertainment is 120 minutes of mind-numbing, insomnia curing exposition mixed in with about 20 minutes of awful "action" scenes. Seriously, has any action scene this guy has done been thrilling or fun to watch?

I'm sick to death of comic book / superhero movies, especially reboots, but Snyder looks like he's bringing a balls to the wall popcorn flick here. Nothing too bleak or gritty. And at least his movies are nice to look at. I want him to do a follow-up to his 2004 remake of Dawn of the Dead. I would love to see that universe on a grander scale.

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