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Dan Boyle may be on the block

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Old
07-17-2012, 03:38 PM
  #151
Duskog
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Interesting how many people think that Boyle's value is so diminished by his age, yet when you read the threads about whether you'd rather win a cup once vs. field a competitive team for 10 years, the response is overwhelmingly that most fans would rather see their team win a cup. Swapping Boyle for Del Zotto makes the Rangers far more competitive next year, my guess is that Kershaw is in the minority in terms of valuing DZ higher.. Not to mention the Rangers aren't even a team that would really need DZ, with the D-core they have... Boyle would be an instant upgrade over Del Zotto, and would probably continue to be the better player for 2-3 more years.

Yeah it'd be nice to have a cup-caliber team stocked with young blue-chip prospects, but that doesn't usually happen, because thankfully most GMs don't buy into the notion that they should pass on all-star Olympian defenders because the asking price would be a much-greener defender who could potentially become as good, likely several seasons after several other key players on the team have begun to age themselves.

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07-17-2012, 03:38 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by 99 steps View Post
What?
Its definitely exaggerated. But a 21 year old 40+ point defenseman who will be signed for around 2 million or a 36 year old defenseman signed at 6.6 mil per year? It definitely isn't Del Zotto >>> Boyle. Because well thats just wrong. But Del Zotto is more valuable to the Rangers than Boyle is.

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07-17-2012, 03:43 PM
  #153
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I was kind of assuming if the Rangers made that deal they immediately make the Nash deal after.
Even so it makes no sense. You are at best replacing or increasing SLIGHTLY, the amount of offensive output from Gaborik and adding a 36 year old defenseman making 6.5+ million a year when the CBA is going to expire and a lock out is possible, that then puts Boyle at 37. This would be the most idiotic deal Sather has made since the lock out.

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07-17-2012, 03:43 PM
  #154
Burlington Bomb 26
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
This.

According to Buccigross, Marleau was traded to the LA Kings as part of a 3-way trade for Heatley.
I actually remember that, and the outrage was just hysterical.

He also thought Schultz was signing in NY. He's a dunce.

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07-17-2012, 03:47 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Duskog View Post
Interesting how many people think that Boyle's value is so diminished by his age, yet when you read the threads about whether you'd rather win a cup once vs. field a competitive team for 10 years, the response is overwhelmingly that most fans would rather see their team win a cup. Swapping Boyle for Del Zotto makes the Rangers far more competitive next year, my guess is that Kershaw is in the minority in terms of valuing DZ higher.. Not to mention the Rangers aren't even a team that would really need DZ, with the D-core they have... Boyle would be an instant upgrade over Del Zotto, and would probably continue to be the better player for 2-3 more years.

Yeah it'd be nice to have a cup-caliber team stocked with young blue-chip prospects, but that doesn't usually happen, because thankfully most GMs don't buy into the notion that they should pass on all-star Olympian defenders because the asking price would be a much-greener defender who could potentially become as good, likely several seasons after several other key players on the team have begun to age themselves.
Kershaw is not even close to in the minority. At the ripe old age of 21 putting up 40+ points? Boyle wouldn't be a big enough upgrade. If Boyle was say 33, then yeah Id be more okay making a deal for him.

No offense but with respect to the bolded you don't know the Rangers well at all. We have zero PMD aside from Del Zotto. We have 1 in the pipeline (Erixon) but even so I don't believe he will be able to match DZ in offensive output. So then when Boyle retires or goes somewhere else after his contract is up, what do we do? It would be easier to move Staal than Del Zotto because we have two other defenseman who are equally as rock solid defensively as Staal is (McDonagh and Girardi). Not that I am saying move Staal, because well, he's damn good.

The majority of Rangers fans would not trade a 21 year old 40 point dman for a 36 year old 50 point dman. We have no clue of Del Zotto's ceiling yet, he could turn into a 50-60 point defenseman. Who the hell knows at this point other than he's good for 40+ points and has a lot more years left than Boyle.

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07-17-2012, 03:49 PM
  #156
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Why are people still on about trading Boyle for MDZ? We didn't propose a MDZ for Boyle swap, we're looking for forwards anyway.


Last edited by Arrch: 07-17-2012 at 04:10 PM.
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07-17-2012, 03:55 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Kershaw is not even close to in the minority. At the ripe old age of 21 putting up 40+ points? Boyle wouldn't be a big enough upgrade. If Boyle was say 33, then yeah Id be more okay making a deal for him.

No offense but with respect to the bolded you don't know the Rangers well at all. We have zero PMD aside from Del Zotto. We have 1 in the pipeline (Erixon) but even so I don't believe he will be able to match DZ in offensive output. So then when Boyle retires or goes somewhere else after his contract is up, what do we do? It would be easier to move Staal than Del Zotto because we have two other defenseman who are equally as rock solid defensively as Staal is (McDonagh and Girardi). Not that I am saying move Staal, because well, he's damn good.

The majority of Rangers fans would not trade a 21 year old 40 point dman for a 36 year old 50 point dman. We have no clue of Del Zotto's ceiling yet, he could turn into a 50-60 point defenseman. Who the hell knows at this point other than he's good for 40+ points and has a lot more years left than Boyle.
Why does it matter how old he is? He's only signed for two years anyway, that's all you are valuing him at. Do you really think he's going to dramatically decline in just the next 2 years even though he's shown no signs of doing so thus far? If he was signed for the next 5 years or something, that I would understand, but you are almost guaranteed 2 years of 50 point production from Boyle, that's it.

If you want to argue "He's only signed for two years" then THAT I understand. But arguing 'he's old' is nonsensical to me. Points are points, and it doesn't matter if the person producing them is 18, or 45. Boyle is probably the single most consistent defensemen offensively in the league, I'm very confident he is going to produce ~50 points for the next two seasons no matter where he does so. So why is his age relevant?

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07-17-2012, 03:56 PM
  #158
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Lol not a chance in hell Vancouver would trade Kesler for Boyle. I'd honestly be reluctant to move Kesler for Weber seeing as how we don't have much depth down the middle. Honestly we don't have much interest in Boyle, since we signed Garrison.

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07-17-2012, 03:58 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Confound View Post
No way, from what I read from DET fans, Helm is pretty much close to untouchable. Adding the top prospect or a first is just overpayment.
Brent Burns (who has always less points then Boyle) got the Wild = Setoguchi (who was younger and more accomplished then D Helm), Charlie Coyle and a 1st Round pick.

I don't see how it'd be overpayment.

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07-17-2012, 04:03 PM
  #160
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Boyle is a MUCH BETTER DEFENCEMAN than Del Zotto...today.

That said, in a capped world, especially a world where the cap is going to go down, MDZ's value sky-rockets in the sense that the difference in salary more than makes up for the difference in talent and age.

MDZ + what ever else you can get for the difference in Salary between Boyle and MDZ are and always will be more valuable than Dan Boyle.

Player to player, Boyle AINEC

Salary+Age to salary+Age - I have to lean towards MDZ

And the kicker is that MDZ is going to get better. Meaning that we have close to 10 more years of 40-50 point production from MDZ whereas at this stage of his career, the odds grow that Boyle will starts the quick decline in ability and production.

MDZ is on an upward trend, Boyle will be on the declining trend shortly.

Because of the Cap and future years and years of production, I wouldn't trade MDZ for Boyle.

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07-17-2012, 04:03 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrch View Post
Why are people still on about trading Boyle for MDZ? Neither team is interested in making that deal right now...
I wouldn't even hesitate to do that deal and I completely agree with the Rangers fans who don't want to do that deal. You do it for the age factor alone. Not to mention Del Zotto isn't in his prime yet, you'll have him for more than two years, and the decrease in skill from Boyle to Del Zotto isn't huge.

Vlasic - Burns
Del Zotto - Stuart
Braun - Demers

isn't all that worse than what the Sharks have right now.

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07-17-2012, 04:05 PM
  #162
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We're *****ing at each other over some BS rumor.

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07-17-2012, 04:09 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I wouldn't even hesitate to do that deal and I completely agree with the Rangers fans who don't want to do that deal. You do it for the age factor alone. Not to mention Del Zotto isn't in his prime yet, you'll have him for more than two years, and the decrease in skill from Boyle to Del Zotto isn't huge.

Vlasic - Burns
Del Zotto - Stuart
Braun - Demers

isn't all that worse than what the Sharks have right now.
Oh I would do it too.

Perhaps I phrased it incorrectly, I should have said "Rangers wouldn't do it and the Sharks wouldn't ask."

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07-17-2012, 04:11 PM
  #164
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This guy works for ESPN and people are going nuts over what he said.

Craziness

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07-17-2012, 04:12 PM
  #165
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We're *****ing at each other over some BS rumor.

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07-17-2012, 04:18 PM
  #166
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no people are *****ing at each other over something that wasnt even part of the original rumor...

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07-17-2012, 04:41 PM
  #167
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Yes, lets move on to see if other teams would be interested in Boyle. He really doesn't make sense for the NYR unless they significantly change their roster. Boyle is and will be for the near future a top pairing defenseman and the rangers have a great top pair. Del Zotto is a much better fit for them because he can be an offensive force on the second pairing.

What other teams would be interested in Boyle? I think Ottawa has been brought up several times but who else?

If the sharks are looking to deal Boyle for a similar player to Gaborik is that a deal that could happen?

Other players include:
2013 potential UFA: Perry, Getzlaf, Elias, Zajac, Versteeg?
2014 potential UFA: Vanek, Statsny, Michalek, Lucic?, Hornqvist?, Wheeler?

Obviously some of these players don't make sense because of the teams they are on but I am just trying to get an idea of who might be available and what Boyle's value is to various teams.

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07-17-2012, 04:43 PM
  #168
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I'd do Stastny for Boyle but I am pretty desperate for someone to pair with EJ.

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07-17-2012, 04:48 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Microsoft Excel View Post
I'd do Stastny for Boyle but I am pretty desperate for someone to pair with EJ.
Stastny only plays center correct? I mean effectively.

Not sure what we'd do with another center...

How about Duchene?

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07-17-2012, 04:54 PM
  #170
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Stastny only plays center correct? I mean effectively.

Not sure what we'd do with another center...

How about Duchene?
Duchene has played some time on the wing but not in a million years would I do Duchene for Boyle.

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07-17-2012, 04:56 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Microsoft Excel View Post
Duchene has played some time on the wing but not in a million years would I do Duchene for Boyle.
We are looking for top-6 wingers, preferably pure wingers. So I'm not sure what that leaves.

Also, I assumed we would add to get Duchene, I was just asking in general though. Thought he was in the dog house a bit or something dumb.

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07-17-2012, 04:56 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Microsoft Excel View Post
I'd do Stastny for Boyle but I am pretty desperate for someone to pair with EJ.
Hm. That might be interesting. We do have too many centers, but all except Thornton have shown the ability to play on the wing. Stastny could be our 2C and we could drop a forward to the third line until Havlat gets hurt.

I doubt Duchene could be had for Boyle because he is still very young. This is why I only mentioned players who will reach UFA in the next 2 years.

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07-17-2012, 05:02 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
We are looking for top-6 wingers, preferably pure wingers. So I'm not sure what that leaves.

Also, I assumed we would add to get Duchene, I was just asking in general though. Thought he was in the dog house a bit or something dumb.
I honestly would do David Jones for Boyle. I'd even throw in a 3rd or a 4th if that is what it took to get it done.

Duchene was indeed in the doghouse at parts of last season but he was also injured. He's a young kid with a tremendous amount of skill. Just needs someone to guide him and properly develop him into a player he can be (a ppg center).

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07-17-2012, 05:27 PM
  #174
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I'd do Stastny for Boyle but I am pretty desperate for someone to pair with EJ.
Wow. I would take this in a heartbeat. If you have Stastny, who's only two years older than Couture, as your long-term #1C, you can definitely transition Couture to wing.

Couture-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Stastny-Havlat

I like that. A lot.

EDIT: Don't Boyle and Stastny have like identical contracts? That helps things.

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07-17-2012, 05:37 PM
  #175
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Wow. I would take this in a heartbeat. If you have Stastny, who's only two years older than Couture, as your long-term #1C, you can definitely transition Couture to wing.

Couture-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Stastny-Havlat

I like that. A lot.

EDIT: Don't Boyle and Stastny have like identical contracts? That helps things.
Yeah, both Boyle and Stastny have near identical contracts. Boyle is 6.67 and expires in '14. Stastny is 6.6 and expires in '14.

I'm part of the minority that thinks the Avs need some more veterans in the lineup. They are too young and Sacco is too inexperienced as an NHL head coach not to mention our GM is Greg from Accounting. Boyle can really mentor the young kids and once his contract is up guys like Elliott, Barrie, and Siemens should be ready to take the reigns. Boyle can stay on of course, but he'd have to take a discount

Edit:

As much as I'd like to see this trade happen I want to see how our 3 scoring line with 3 legit centers works out. We also have one too many 5/6 defenseman. I'd like to see one of them head out as well. Someone like O'Brien or O'Byrne even though I like O'Byrne a lot.

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