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Old
07-18-2012, 01:09 AM
  #26
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by Little Bunny Foo Foo View Post
Is it time to trade some depth? One of Hickey or Drewiske has to go
It's a tough call as both Hickey and 44DD are both undervalued imo. That is why I've suggested trading away Martinez instead but perhaps, that's not the best of ideas either.

Hickey was nhl ready last year and I expect him to be that much better this year. Even if he did perform well, there's still no room for him unfortunately unless there's a roster move made.

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07-18-2012, 01:15 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
It's a tough call as both Hickey and 44DD are both undervalued imo. That is why I've suggested trading away Martinez instead but perhaps, that's not the best of ideas either.

Hickey was nhl ready last year and I expect him to be that much better this year. Even if he did perform well, there's still no room for him unfortunately unless there's a roster move made.
Martinez is only 2 years older than Hickey and he already has established himself as a bottom pair/2nd unit PP defenseman in the NHL. Why would you move him to open a spot for a player who hasn't even played a single game in the NHL? Martinez isn't "NHL ready", he is "NHL established".

If Hickey beats out Drewiske and Muzzin in camp, he will be the #7. If he doesn't, then maybe another team picks him up and gives him a shot. Or he ends up back in the AHL for another year.

Martinez > Hickey/Drewiske/Muzzin

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07-18-2012, 01:24 AM
  #28
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Martinez is only 2 years older than Hickey and he already has established himself as a bottom pair/2nd unit PP defenseman in the NHL. Why would you move him to open a spot for a player who hasn't even played a single game in the NHL? Martinez isn't "NHL ready", he is "NHL established".

If Hickey beats out Drewiske and Muzzin in camp, he will be the #7. If he doesn't, then maybe another team picks him up and gives him a shot. Or he ends up back in the AHL for another year.

Martinez > Hickey/Drewiske/Muzzin
You ever think about being a politician? I've already mentioned that perhaps trading away Martinez wasn't the best of ideas, but like a true politician, you only see what you want to see.



Bottom line is, we have too much depth on defense and guys like Hickey, Drewiske and perhaps even Muzzin who are all nhl ready will continue to have to wait for their turns unfortunately.

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07-18-2012, 02:12 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
I hope this is the year Hickey makes it to the nhl.
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Don't dismiss the notion of Martinez possibly getting traded. Although, still early in his nhl career, AM has value as a top 4 dman. Such a move can help Hickey land a spot alongside Greene. Hickey much like AM also shoots left.
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
It's a tough call as both Hickey and 44DD are both undervalued imo. That is why I've suggested trading away Martinez instead but perhaps, that's not the best of ideas either.

Hickey was nhl ready last year and I expect him to be that much better this year. Even if he did perform well, there's still no room for him unfortunately unless there's a roster move made.
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You ever think about being a politician? I've already mentioned that perhaps trading away Martinez wasn't the best of ideas, but like a true politician, you only see what you want to see.

Just in this thread you said Hickey is ready (implying that Martinez is expendable) and specifically suggested trading Martinez and then threw out a little "perhaps" at the end. Who is the politician?

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Bottom line is, we have too much depth on defense and guys like Hickey, Drewiske and perhaps even Muzzin who are all nhl ready will continue to have to wait for their turns unfortunately.
That is what championship teams do. You keep the pipeline full of prospects that are NHL caliber players and you use them when needed and you lose them when they aren't needed. You can't keep everyone, especially when you return the entire Stanley Cup Championship roster and are the third youngest team in the entire NHL.

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07-18-2012, 02:21 AM
  #30
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Hickey is ready, but the problem is something that is becoming routine in the Kings organization, which is a good thing, in that prospects are becoming ready, but with no slots to go to and being behind proven roster players on the charts. Reminds me of Bernier vs. Quick at the start of last season. One is already established and playing great and the other is oozing with potential to perhaps become the better player, but can't edge out his competition to claim the spot and prove himself. Great problem to have, sucks for the prospects though.

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07-18-2012, 03:04 AM
  #31
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Hickey is ready, but the problem is something that is becoming routine in the Kings organization, which is a good thing, in that prospects are becoming ready, but with no slots to go to and being behind proven roster players on the charts. Reminds me of Bernier vs. Quick at the start of last season. One is already established and playing great and the other is oozing with potential to perhaps become the better player, but can't edge out his competition to claim the spot and prove himself. Great problem to have, sucks for the prospects though.
But at what point does it undervalue or drive away our young prospects?

I trust in our management and feel that we have done a phenomenal job of building a team (obvious). I just hope we are propely identifying the prospects that we want and creatng potential openings for them.

For example Loti seems to have zero future in ths organization. (I'm really high on him and thought a bit of bad luck, timing (Murray), and personnel (Rchardson and Lwis)) really killed his debut. And now he seems to have zero chance at ever getting a reasonable chance on his team. Meanwhile Stoll gets extended for 3 more years who was put in a much better position to succeed was probably worse in the regular season. And was able to string together half dcent postseason run.

Those are the type of moves that irk me a bit.

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07-18-2012, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
For example Loti seems to have zero future in ths organization. (I'm really high on him and thought a bit of bad luck, timing (Murray), and personnel (Rchardson and Lwis)) really killed his debut. And now he seems to have zero chance at ever getting a reasonable chance on his team. Meanwhile Stoll gets extended for 3 more years who was put in a much better position to succeed was probably worse in the regular season. And was able to string together half dcent postseason run.

Those are the type of moves that irk me a bit.
The only bad luck Lokti had was the Kings getting better up front. He's a top-6 type guy, and those spots are taken. You can't really compare him to Stoll because Lokti can't do what Jarret does.

Lokti has no future with the Kings because of his play, not because of bad luck. He got a shot with Richards when Gagne went down and did little with it. King comes in and doubles Lokti's points in far less games. That's what Lokti needs to do.

I want nothing more to see the guy succeed, but I want to see the team win more. I think Lokti would flourish with a team like Edmonton where he could utilize more skill.

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07-18-2012, 03:42 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Rusty Batch View Post
But at what point does it undervalue or drive away our young prospects?

I trust in our management and feel that we have done a phenomenal job of building a team (obvious). I just hope we are propely identifying the prospects that we want and creatng potential openings for them.

For example Loti seems to have zero future in ths organization. (I'm really high on him and thought a bit of bad luck, timing (Murray), and personnel (Rchardson and Lwis)) really killed his debut. And now he seems to have zero chance at ever getting a reasonable chance on his team. Meanwhile Stoll gets extended for 3 more years who was put in a much better position to succeed was probably worse in the regular season. And was able to string together half dcent postseason run.

Those are the type of moves that irk me a bit.
It will only start making things difficult if we stop winning. And I am not implying we need to win the cup every year but making the playoffs and doing well then it won't matter. Detroit is a prime example of this they bring along players very slowly and always seem to have a fit when there is a hole. Not to mention that the more we win the better our whole system looks and it actually ups the value of our prospects not devalue them. The potential roster problems with having prospects ready and not able to make the lineup is one I am sure many GMs would like to have. It is not a bad thing.

As to Loti his only place is if he can find away to move to the wing. Otherwise he is done for the most part. I hope he can make the move, but I know it has been tried and he didn't do very well.

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07-18-2012, 04:07 AM
  #34
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The only bad luck Lokti had was the Kings getting better up front. He's a top-6 type guy, and those spots are taken. You can't really compare him to Stoll because Lokti can't do what Jarret does.

Lokti has no future with the Kings because of his play, not because of bad luck. He got a shot with Richards when Gagne went down and did little with it. King comes in and doubles Lokti's points in far less games. That's what Lokti needs to do.

I want nothing more to see the guy succeed, but I want to see the team win more. I think Lokti would flourish with a team like Edmonton where he could utilize more skill.

Lokti played with richards for what a couple of games? also that was when the entire team was struggling mightly offensiveley and it was out of position. Also it was with Murray as coach not Sutter. King only played under Sutters system (sutter was obviously a huge catalyst for our offense).

Also I'm not suggesting that Lokti is equal to King at wing. I just felt like the dude got a raw deal with linemates and the period of time he played was before we got Crter and our offense started to take off.

Even then when when watcing the game I thought Lokti clearly stood out as the best player on our 3rd line. I believe he was playing wth Lewis and Richardson at the time. You simply are not going to ge much offense out of Terry murray coached team with Lewis and Richardson as your linemates.

Regardless Im not trying to suggest Lokti is for sure the right person going forward on that 3rd line, just dissapointed that he wont get to compete for it anytime in the near future. I thought for a young player he looked good even thoughthe numbers weren't there (or variety of reasons) to support it.

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07-18-2012, 09:20 AM
  #35
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I think most of these guys pass through waivers easier than you might think. Throughout the league how many notable players per year change teams due to waivers. Besides, don't the GMs try not to "step on any toes" with waivers so as to not start an endless shuffle of players who aren't really much that much different from each other.
Edmonton would put a claim on Thomas Hickey right away

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07-18-2012, 09:23 AM
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The Monarchs are pretty much set for the upcoming season.

Cliche-Loktionov-Kozun
Czarnik-Vey-Toffoli
Meckler-Weal-O'Neill
Clune-Andreoff-Legein
Johnson

Campbell-Hickey
Muzzin-Deslauriers
Bodnarchuk-Kolomatis

Jones-Berube

That doesn't include recent draft picks who may compete for spots in Manchester, which includes Tanner Pearson, Nikolai Prokhorkin, and Colin Miller.
I might be wrong here but wouldn't Tanner Pearson be too old for another season in the CHL? Him and Toffoli are the same age and I'm 100% sure Toffoli can't play another season in the OHL. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know the CHL age rules, thanks

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07-18-2012, 10:24 AM
  #37
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Edmonton would put a claim on Thomas Hickey right away
If/when that happens there needs to be a response from management. The Kings could sign a useful inexpensive UFA (as #7D or to supplement Manch.), take a flyer on another teams reasonably good prospect through trade (mid range draft choice, rights to Holloway/ Moller / ???, one of the Kings better forward prospects), waivers or work to improve the players we still have.

As fans we have to be ready for a few disappointing scenarios and patient with some "creative" additions.

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07-18-2012, 10:55 AM
  #38
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Why move Martinez? He's proven he can play in the NHL whereas Hickey hasn't. Makes zero sense to move Martinez unless Hickey proves he is ready. Otherwise, Hickey is the odd man out.
While I agree with you Ziggy, the reason to make a move like is to maximize assets. Hickey in a trade is worth very little right now, where as Martinez is worth more. If management thinks sliding in Hickey will essentially equal out to Martinez, then why not trade the one with the higher value?

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Shouldn't have to if he was called up on an emergency recall due to injury. Which was kind of what was mentioned. But for that to happen we would have to have 2 dmen go down since I am sure we will carry DD2 as the 7th d and you have to be at 5 for emergency recall to work.
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Highly doubt that Hickey will end up being the 7th dman carried. It is much more important for his continued development to say in Manchester and play over being on the big team and sitting.

But this is such a nice place to be as a kings fan talking about prospects and slowly developing them over rushing them in.
Again, Hickey would have to clear waivers to go to Manchester. This isn't an issue of development or of emergency recalls. In order for Hickey to reach Manchester, he has to clear waivers. He in all likelihood would not. If we want to keep him in the organization, he basically needs to make the team out of camp.

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But at what point does it undervalue or drive away our young prospects?
Never.

Our prospects are drafted by us and, barring them electing to not sign a contract with us, will be our propert for a long time. And very few prospects who are worthy of signiong refusing to sign with the team that picked them. I believe only one prospect that reentered the draft last year was picked again (Fredrik Anderson). Outside of Tim Erixon, who refused to sign in Calgary for very specific reasons (wanted to go to NYR), when was the last time a top draft pick refused to sign someplace?

Having a deep, deep team will not impact our prospect pool much, if at all. Look at Detroit for that example.

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07-18-2012, 12:02 PM
  #39
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I might be wrong here but wouldn't Tanner Pearson be too old for another season in the CHL? Him and Toffoli are the same age and I'm 100% sure Toffoli can't play another season in the OHL. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know the CHL age rules, thanks
Both could play their overage year in the OHL, but they also may play AHL or ECHL if the Kings prefer (and most NHL teams do). It's not often we see a drafted player returned for his overage year in the CHL. It happens, but it's rare and even rarer to see a forward returned.

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07-18-2012, 12:09 PM
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While I agree with you Ziggy, the reason to make a move like is to maximize assets. Hickey in a trade is worth very little right now, where as Martinez is worth more. If management thinks sliding in Hickey will essentially equal out to Martinez, then why not trade the one with the higher value?
Hickey would have to do what Voynov did this past season in proving to the organization that he is ready to be a top six defenseman in the NHL. Voynov allowed the Kings the luxury to move Jack Johnson in order to upgrade their offense. The Kings are fortunate now that they don't have any holes to fill, so they don't have to force Hickey into a position he may not yet be ready for and they don't have any immediate needs to address.

Martinez has been a regular with the Kings for the past two years, he'll be turning 25 later this month, and he was once considered to be one of the team's top prospects on defense. He's an unheralded player who doesn't receive enough credit for his all around play. He's just so composed out there that you hardly notice him, he doesn't make mistakes and he's quick in moving the puck out of his own end. Until Hickey proves he can do all of that, there is no need or sense in discussing a transaction involving Martinez.

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07-18-2012, 12:14 PM
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Edmonton would put a claim on Thomas Hickey right away
Yeah. There is zero possibility that all 29 other teams would pass on a former #4 overall pick, regardless of whether he was drafted too high.

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07-18-2012, 12:20 PM
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While I agree with you Ziggy, the reason to make a move like is to maximize assets. Hickey in a trade is worth very little right now, where as Martinez is worth more. If management thinks sliding in Hickey will essentially equal out to Martinez, then why not trade the one with the higher value?
Why not keep both and trade Drewiske? He's a UFA after next season. Do you think there is any possibility Drewiske will re-sign? Let Hickey and Martinez battle it out over the course of a season. There's no rush to make a choice. I think we can get at least a 6th rounder for Drewiske. If we waive him, I think he'll be claimed.

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07-18-2012, 01:02 PM
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While I agree with you Ziggy, the reason to make a move like is to maximize assets. Hickey in a trade is worth very little right now, where as Martinez is worth more. If management thinks sliding in Hickey will essentially equal out to Martinez, then why not trade the one with the higher value?





Again, Hickey would have to clear waivers to go to Manchester. This isn't an issue of development or of emergency recalls. In order for Hickey to reach Manchester, he has to clear waivers. He in all likelihood would not. If we want to keep him in the organization, he basically needs to make the team out of camp.



Never.

Our prospects are drafted by us and, barring them electing to not sign a contract with us, will be our propert for a long time. And very few prospects who are worthy of signiong refusing to sign with the team that picked them. I believe only one prospect that reentered the draft last year was picked again (Fredrik Anderson). Outside of Tim Erixon, who refused to sign in Calgary for very specific reasons (wanted to go to NYR), when was the last time a top draft pick refused to sign someplace?

Having a deep, deep team will not impact our prospect pool much, if at all. Look at Detroit for that example.

No it just means he would have to be sent down 13 days before the first regular season game. Since waivers go into effect 12 days before.

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07-18-2012, 03:38 PM
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Still cannot believe Meckler was resigned...
I was surprised with Legion. He was awesome in the World Juniors but has bounced aroudn so much he seems like a bust.

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07-18-2012, 03:53 PM
  #45
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The biggest wildcard is Rob Scuderi. He's got one year left on his deal and if Lombardi doesn't see him as a King beyond next season, he should move him ASAP. This would allow Martinez to play more meaningful minutes and it would open up a 3rd pairing slot for Hickey/Drewiske/Muzzin.

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07-18-2012, 03:53 PM
  #46
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Yeah, gotta say if it's a choice between Hickey and Drewiske I think the Kings should keep Hickey.

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The biggest wildcard is Rob Scuderi. He's got one year left on his deal and if Lombardi doesn't see him as a King beyond next season, he should move him ASAP. This would allow Martinez to play more meaningful minutes and it would open up a 3rd pairing slot for Hickey/Drewiske/Muzzin.
Or Dean can keep Scuderi have Hickey as the #7 defenseman and then allow Muzzin to step up to the NHL for the 2013-2014 season.

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07-18-2012, 03:58 PM
  #47
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Yeah, gotta say if it's a choice between Hickey and Drewiske I think the Kings should keep Hickey.



Or Dean can keep Scuderi have Hickey as the #7 defenseman and then allow Muzzin to step up to the NHL for the 2013-2014 season.
That's probably how it'll play out due to the fact that Hickey is no longer waiver exempt.

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07-18-2012, 04:01 PM
  #48
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Or Dean can keep Scuderi have Hickey as the #7 defenseman and then allow Muzzin to step up to the NHL for the 2013-2014 season.
This, from someone who questioned Hickey replacing Martinez?

I would just rather re-sign Scuds than to have Muzzin take his spot.

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07-18-2012, 04:26 PM
  #49
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Yeah, gotta say if it's a choice between Hickey and Drewiske I think the Kings should keep Hickey.



Or Dean can keep Scuderi have Hickey as the #7 defenseman and then allow Muzzin to step up to the NHL for the 2013-2014 season.
Do you think Muzzin will get through waivers? He did get a taste of the NHL a couple of seasons ago and some team may take a shot at him.

I would try and extend Scuderi and keep Hickey as the #7 for this season. Roll the dice with Drewiske and Muzzin to Manchester (waivers).

Scuderi and Mitchell play a low maintenance style of play and shouldn't really decline in their mid-30's. Just wonder if Scuderi wants to head back East since he has already won 2 Cups.

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07-18-2012, 04:50 PM
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This, from someone who questioned Hickey replacing Martinez?
If Hickey were ready, he wouldn't have been passed up by Voynov, Martinez, and arguable DD44

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