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Shane Doan at $30M for 4 years

View Poll Results: Shane Doan at $30M for 4 years
Worth it... He's priceless 28 21.71%
Stupidly massive overpayment 101 78.29%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:30 PM
  #26
SoFFacet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Jaeger View Post
I'd do it, though I wish there was choice three: "I'd do it, knowing it's a massive overpayment."

The future of the team - the team that can compete for the Cup - likely takes form somewhere around 2014 with the full time additions of Grigorenko, Girgensons, Armia, Pysyk, etc. to a roster that should already have (or still have) Hodgson, Ennis, Foligno, Myers, Sekera, McNabb, etc. That's a lot of young players able to be influenced. A guy like Doan is the type of player I want around all those previously listed, showing them the ropes of being a professional.

$7.5M is ridiculous for Doan. Sure, the team gets a power forward with a two-way game. And the risk is pretty high. I'm OK with it, knowing that what Buffalo's really paying for is the transfer (hopefully!) of professionalism, determination, and hard work from Doan to that list of young players. I'd pay $7.5M for that.

Not a popular position. . . and I know that as I post this. . . but I'll take it. Commence the beating.
This is exactly how I feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
Feel free to speak on any alleged happy medium. I don't see one.
At the very least you could have refrained from poisoning the well with the language attached to the choices in the poll.

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:33 PM
  #27
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id pay 7.5 just to have him in the room motivating the boys, his style of play is just what the guys need and can get behind

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:58 PM
  #28
Andrej Shakira
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I'm not even sure I'd want him at $6m for 4 years let alone $7.5m. 3 years at $6m I'd be ok with though, lol.

Crazy right?

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Old
07-18-2012, 05:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Andrej Shakira View Post
I'm not even sure I'd want him at $6m for 4 years let alone $7.5m. 3 years at $6m I'd be ok with though, lol.

Crazy right?
If he was being offered better deals than 6m per, you would risk losing him in order to save 1.5m a season?

Leino can always be buried if necessary. Regehr and Leopold expire at the end of the year freeing up 7m. Likely to be replaced by McNabb and Pysyk on ELCs. Armia will be pushing for a spot in a few years . Grigorenko and Girgensons will be making fairly little for the next 3-4 seasons. Vanek, Pominville and Miller will expire in two years if we dont want/need them back for some reason. There are plenty of ways to free up cap space that shouldn't affect our ability to have a competitive team over the next four years.

My only concern would be a drastic reduction in the cap through a new CBA that forces us to lose valuable assets for little in order to be compliant.

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07-18-2012, 05:43 PM
  #30
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he's likely worth 6 for 3 years but this 7.5 for 4 stuff is absurd and he is one of my favorite players...

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:38 PM
  #31
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New poll idea:

What's worse?
Your heart skipping a beat to see the red of "Confirmed Signing With Link" then immediately realizing someone just bumped the Scott thread.

Logging in from your phone and seeing "Shane Doan 4 years/30 mil" with no tags before realizing it's just this thread.

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:45 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
New poll idea:

What's worse?
Your heart skipping a beat to see the red of "Confirmed Signing With Link" then immediately realizing someone just bumped the Scott thread.

Logging in from your phone and seeing "Shane Doan 4 years/30 mil" with no tags before realizing it's just this thread.
B... From experience.

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Old
07-18-2012, 07:09 PM
  #33
Der Jaeger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
New poll idea:

What's worse?
Your heart skipping a beat to see the red of "Confirmed Signing With Link" then immediately realizing someone just bumped the Scott thread.

Logging in from your phone and seeing "Shane Doan 4 years/30 mil" with no tags before realizing it's just this thread.
Nice!

B-Been there plenty waking up in the morning and checking my phone.

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Old
07-19-2012, 10:59 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Worse.
I wouldn't go that far because I actually like Doan as a player.

Leino on the other hand is a useless piece of feces, IMO.

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07-19-2012, 11:04 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
I wouldn't go that far because I actually like Doan as a player.

Leino on the other hand is a useless piece of feces, IMO.
The over-35 clause, the shear size of the deal at this level, and his age make it worse. Leino's is still in his 20's, his cap hit could in theory be buried offshore at some point and it's a cap-team friendlier deal to move if he re-establishes value. Doan may be more useful, that doesn't make him having nearly twice Leino's salary good.

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:11 AM
  #36
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I'd pay 7.5 or 8.0 to Dustin Brown in this scenario, but a big hell no to Doan for that much.

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07-19-2012, 11:14 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
The over-35 clause, the shear size of the deal at this level, and his age make it worse. Leino's is still in his 20's, his cap hit could in theory be buried offshore at some point and it's a cap-team friendlier deal to move if he re-establishes value. Doan may be more useful, that doesn't make him having nearly twice Leino's salary good.
I doubt that the Sabres will buy Leino.

And while the contract is worse cap-wise, I'd still rather have Doan in a Sabres sweater than Leino. And that's why I wouldn't view this as worse than signing Leino.

That doesn't make the deal a good one.

For me:

Doan @ 4 yrs $30M:

Like the player, hate the contract

Leino:

Hate the player, hate the contract

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:17 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Tasty View Post
I'd pay 7.5 or 8.0 to Dustin Brown in this scenario, but a big hell no to Doan for that much.
I wouldn't go that high for a player like Doan or Brown who aren't impact guys offensively.

Brown has one 30g season and his career high in pts is 60. No way is he worth $7.5 to 8M per.

I'd give Brown a cap hit around what Pominville has.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:58 PM
  #39
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He's not priceless, but worth it. Honestly, who gives a **** what they pay?

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07-19-2012, 04:04 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
He's not priceless, but worth it. Honestly, who gives a **** what they pay?
I don't care about anything but the cap hit. Whether he gets 20 million upfront or whatever, I don't care at all.

But the cap hit effects future moves, it hinders the teams ability to re-sign players and it can even force trades that bring back a lesser return value because their hand is forced.

Who knows what the team will look like in 2 or 3 years but if contracts like Leino's and potentially Doan's make re-signing a Vanek impossible, and none of the young players are good enough to fill Vanek's skates...we are ****ed.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:11 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
He's not priceless, but worth it. Honestly, who gives a **** what they pay?
I'm kindof leaning in this direction just because I think we are getting to a point of desperation to boost interest in this team for the upcoming season.

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07-19-2012, 05:17 PM
  #42
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Give Arnott a look before throwing that much cash at Doan.

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07-19-2012, 05:31 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
He's not priceless, but worth it. Honestly, who gives a **** what they pay?


If he's not priceless then why would you not care what they pay? Surely there is some limit, especially considering the over 35 clause.

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07-19-2012, 05:48 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sabresonthewarpath11 View Post
Give Arnott a look before throwing that much cash at Doan.
Arnott is the poor man's Doan. Good thinking.

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07-19-2012, 05:59 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Arnott is the poor man's Doan. Good thinking.
Arnott sucks so incredibly much for this roster and I can't believe anyone still thinks of him as a viable option. Say it with me: slow, not physical, sucks defensively, needs sheltered minutes to produce. What part of that looks appealing to anyone?

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07-21-2012, 08:06 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post


If he's not priceless then why would you not care what they pay? Surely there is some limit, especially considering the over 35 clause.
Not my money. Why would I care? Fans get way too wrapped up in value, cap and blah blah blah. There's always ways to navigate the budget situation.

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07-21-2012, 08:19 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
Not my money. Why would I care? Fans get way too wrapped up in value, cap and blah blah blah. There's always ways to navigate the budget situation.
Everyone in this conversation knows it's not an issue with spending money, it's an issue of building a hockey team within the confines of the CBA. That's not to say that means you can't argue for signing Doan, but saying it's not your money isn't really relevant.

And yes, there are always ways to deal with cap situations but that doesn't mean there will be a satisfactory way of dealing with it, especially when we're talking about such a high figure w/ the over 35 contract rules. They could dump a guy like Leino, sure, but they'd still have $7.5m tied up in dead weight if it came down to Doan actually being dead weight.

At any rate, I am against signing him for these terms but as I said elsewhere, if it happens it happens. I'm not going to cry about Shane Doan being on my hockey team, that's for sure. If Darcy's comfortable taking the risk (with the backing of ownership, obviously), then so be it. I just don't see the sense from where I'm sitting. If it happens then we can all just hope he remains a really good player for 4 years and it'll just be a simple issue of overpayment, which is no big deal.

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Old
07-21-2012, 08:30 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by moltenlava26 View Post
Ruff is on the hot seat. 2 years of no playoffs and 6 years of not getting out of the first round (following this season) would put the onus directly on Darcy to fire him
Still an optimist, eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Leino's is still in his 20's.
29 on Oct. 9th - he's not exactly in his prime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Play4Miracles View Post
Arnott is the poor man's Doan. Good thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Arnott sucks so incredibly much for this roster and I can't believe anyone still thinks of him as a viable option. Say it with me: slow, not physical, sucks defensively, needs sheltered minutes to produce. What part of that looks appealing to anyone?
I'll grant you - his skating isn't great nor is his defensive play but you're exaggerating the option as a no-win choice. He's a veteran center, capable of winning 50% of his face-offs and is a big body still able to chip in on the power play. Plus, considering that most of the appeal of signing Doan is for his leadership and ability to mentor the Sabres' kids, it's worth noting that Arnott was praised often by his Blues' teammates for the presence and stability he brought to the locker room.

Signing him on a 1-year deal for $1.75M - 2M would be a low-risk insurance move that adds more useful depth than what Ellis, McCormick or Porter will offer.


Last edited by Sabretip: 07-21-2012 at 08:36 PM.
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Old
07-21-2012, 08:36 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Arnott sucks so incredibly much for this roster and I can't believe anyone still thinks of him as a viable option. Say it with me: slow, not physical, sucks defensively, needs sheltered minutes to produce. What part of that looks appealing to anyone?
You're always the voice of reason whenever someone wants Arnott. The guy's toast.

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07-21-2012, 09:05 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabretip View Post
I'll grant you - his skating isn't great nor is his defensive play but you're exaggerating the option as a no-win choice. He's a veteran center, capable of winning 50% of his face-offs and is a big body still able to chip in on the power play. Plus, considering that most of the appeal of signing Doan is for his leadership and ability to mentor the Sabres' kids, it's worth noting that Arnott was praised often by his Blues' teammates for the presence and stability he brought to the locker room.

Signing him on a 1-year deal for $1.75M - 2M would be a low-risk insurance move that adds more useful depth than what Ellis, McCormick or Porter will offer.
No, Doan is an attractive option because he's A) still a viable top six forward and B) still physical despite his old age. Arnott does neither of those things. Any non top six forward this team adds either has to be good defensively, tough to play against or both. Arnott takes opportunities (PP time/sheltered zone starts/competition) from other forwards. He's Brad Boyes who actually managed to be an impact player on a good team at this point in his career.

If we got him solely for leadership and being a fourth line center, that's one thing, but almost everyone who mentions Arnott talks about him as a third liner who's actually going to contribute things to the lineup besides pep-talks and lockerroom stability. Even worse, they mention things like grit and defensive play, neither of which he actually brings to the table in 2012.

Also, who is he playing over on the power play? Foligno/Ott/Leino as the 6th? Playing four forwards on one unit?

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