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Shane Doan at $30M for 4 years

View Poll Results: Shane Doan at $30M for 4 years
Worth it... He's priceless 28 21.71%
Stupidly massive overpayment 101 78.29%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-22-2012, 01:21 AM
  #51
Ace2008
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1 or 2 years at 4-6 mill seems fair anything more doesn't make sense for him

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07-22-2012, 01:43 AM
  #52
Karate Johnson
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1 or 2 years $10-$12 million IS fair.

Doan isn't looking for fair. He's looking to

A) Stay in PHX

B) go to a contender close to PHX

C) Go to a contender who wil pay him the most out each.

D) get a totally UNfair deal for way to many years from a desperate team like Buffalo who and make $30 million for his last few years of work.



We aren't gonna get him for a Fair deal.

But if overpaying him, Mayr making another move in the top 6 changes the culture I the team completely and changes the perception of the Sabres to the rest of the league can you really put a price on that?

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07-22-2012, 01:45 AM
  #53
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You're not going to get Doan for under3 ....accept n move on..... Sometimes you gotta risk it.....n im ready

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Old
07-22-2012, 10:25 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Everyone in this conversation knows it's not an issue with spending money, it's an issue of building a hockey team within the confines of the CBA. That's not to say that means you can't argue for signing Doan, but saying it's not your money isn't really relevant.

And yes, there are always ways to deal with cap situations but that doesn't mean there will be a satisfactory way of dealing with it, especially when we're talking about such a high figure w/ the over 35 contract rules. They could dump a guy like Leino, sure, but they'd still have $7.5m tied up in dead weight if it came down to Doan actually being dead weight.

At any rate, I am against signing him for these terms but as I said elsewhere, if it happens it happens. I'm not going to cry about Shane Doan being on my hockey team, that's for sure. If Darcy's comfortable taking the risk (with the backing of ownership, obviously), then so be it. I just don't see the sense from where I'm sitting. If it happens then we can all just hope he remains a really good player for 4 years and it'll just be a simple issue of overpayment, which is no big deal.

Something to keep in mind is they only have 12 players signed for next year, 5 for the season after that and 3 in what would be year 4 of Doan's rumored deal. That gives them a lot of flexibility to deal with Doan's rumored cap hit of 7.5mil.

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07-22-2012, 10:55 AM
  #55
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Massive overpayment. But the length is worse. 4 years is too long at that price. If it were a 2 year deal I could handle the overpayment.

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07-22-2012, 10:58 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SublimeNightmare View Post
Massive overpayment. But the length is worse. 4 years is too long at that price. If it were a 2 year deal I could handle the overpayment.
As your avatar reminds, pigs do fly from time to time...

Someone will either pay the alleged $30M/4 or something similarly outrageous.

"Values" get inflated because of limited availability. Rightly or wrongly. (Sanely or insanely.)

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07-22-2012, 12:04 PM
  #57
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Identifying the offer as "massive overpayment" is the easy part here.

The tougher task is determining whether or not such a deal is stupid or not.

We have a lot of young guys who could learn a lot from Shane Doan, in fact, their career personas could be molded by him. What is the value of that?

And the Sabres are trying to re-invent themselves as a "go to" franchise for free agents/top players interested in playing for a great franchise with serious intentions of winning a Cup year after year.

You don't re-invent the Sabres' 40 year history of mediocrity overnight, and you don't do it by standing pat with normal, conventional thinking or moves.

If the Sabres really did sign Doan to this deal, it would be a loss leader.

Kind of like what FOX did years ago when they decided it was time to be a contender in TV broadcasting. They signed a crazy expensive deal to show NFL games. It put them on the map and made them a player.

Sometimes you have to give in order to receive.

You may not personally like the offer, and maybe you wouldn't make it yourself after careful consideration if you were the GM, but there are plenty of reasons why this offer is not "STUPID" even if it is overpayment.

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07-22-2012, 12:44 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
Identifying the offer as "massive overpayment" is the easy part here.

The tougher task is determining whether or not such a deal is stupid or not.

We have a lot of young guys who could learn a lot from Shane Doan, in fact, their career personas could be molded by him. What is the value of that?

And the Sabres are trying to re-invent themselves as a "go to" franchise for free agents/top players interested in playing for a great franchise with serious intentions of winning a Cup year after year.

You don't re-invent the Sabres' 40 year history of mediocrity overnight, and you don't do it by standing pat with normal, conventional thinking or moves.

If the Sabres really did sign Doan to this deal, it would be a loss leader.

Kind of like what FOX did years ago when they decided it was time to be a contender in TV broadcasting. They signed a crazy expensive deal to show NFL games. It put them on the map and made them a player.

Sometimes you have to give in order to receive.

You may not personally like the offer, and maybe you wouldn't make it yourself after careful consideration if you were the GM, but there are plenty of reasons why this offer is not "STUPID" even if it is overpayment.


Nailed it.

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Old
07-23-2012, 11:36 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
You don't re-invent the Sabres' 40 year history of mediocrity overnight, and you don't do it by standing pat with normal, conventional thinking or moves.
You also don't do it by vastly overpaying for players when there is a salary cap.

What type of players view the Sabres as a more attractive destination due to the Leino singing? Guys that are willing to take less than market value to be a part of a winner or guys that are mostly about getting paid as much as possible?

With fewer and fewer quality players hitting UFA, the Sabres should maintain the focus on drafting, developing, and retaining impact players before worrying about UFAs.

There are positives to signing Doan. But, not at any cost.

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Old
07-23-2012, 01:49 PM
  #60
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It seems like every year a team like Philly or New York signs a guy like this. He's a guy you want, but they overpay so after the disappointment wears off you snicker and think 'Well they'll be screwed in a few years with the cap.' Yet that never really happens, does it? They always seem to be back in the hunt next year. If the Sabres want to compete with the big boys, they need to burn that bridge when they get there and start putting a winner on the ice. It's a 4 year contract, not a lifetime pact. The Sabres won't have to keep splurging on big free agents or worrying about overpaying current guys if they can rely on their youth movement to create depth centered around a few veteran pieces.

Doaner is a great step toward that because he's a guy who can bring our other talented pieces together and be that leader this team doesn't have (Pomer's a nice example for the others, but not a leader of men). Do you really think Vanek is getting a raise from his current contract? Pominville? Miller? None of those guys have improved their numbers from their previous contract (maybe Pomer if any) so I'm not worried about having to re-sign them. Do you think the cap will stop going up after the re-negotiated CBA? My money is on it still raising. Cap space concerns are for chicks. Hit the effin gas, sign Doaner up, and cut the fat when the fat is too much. No one's going to cry if we have to bury Leino overseas to offset Doan. Until then, start winning some hockey games like the big boys do.

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Old
07-23-2012, 02:06 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FearRipSimonick View Post
It seems like every year a team like Philly or New York signs a guy like this. He's a guy you want, but they overpay so after the disappointment wears off you snicker and think 'Well they'll be screwed in a few years with the cap.' Yet that never really happens, does it? They always seem to be back in the hunt next year. If the Sabres want to compete with the big boys, they need to burn that bridge when they get there and start putting a winner on the ice. It's a 4 year contract, not a lifetime pact. The Sabres won't have to keep splurging on big free agents or worrying about overpaying current guys if they can rely on their youth movement to create depth centered around a few veteran pieces.
It's been almost two decades since the Rangers won the Cup.

Since the lockout, the Sabres have more ECFs appearances (2 to 1) and the same number of playoff series wins (4) as the Rangers.

I wouldn't use them as the model that the Sabres should follow.

The Flyers are a little better (7 playoff series wins, 2 ECFs, and 1 SCFs appearances), but they haven't won it all, either.

I like the Red Wings approach where they draft and develop well, they retain the homegrown franchise lynchpins, and then add solid complementary pieces via trade and UFA as people are attracted to the hoemgrown core and the overall culture of the franchise.

The Sabres are on the right path. I just hope they have the patience to not rush things with more Leino-ish mistakes in UFA.

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Old
07-23-2012, 02:20 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
It's been almost two decades since the Rangers won the Cup.

Since the lockout, the Sabres have more ECFs appearances (2 to 1) and the same number of playoff series wins (4) as the Rangers.

I wouldn't use them as the model that the Sabres should follow.

The Flyers are a little better (7 playoff series wins, 2 ECFs, and 1 SCFs appearances), but they haven't won it all, either.

I like the Red Wings approach where they draft and develop well, they retain the homegrown franchise lynchpins, and then add solid complementary pieces via trade and UFA as people are attracted to the hoemgrown core and the overall culture of the franchise.

The Sabres are on the right path. I just hope they have the patience to not rush things with more Leino-ish mistakes in UFA.
I agree with this. It seems like by far the best way to build a franchise capable of sustaining a winning culture over any significant period of time. I think Pegula recognizes that. I think Regier knows he got bit last year for signing Leino for the sake of making a splash/being a player in the UFA market. We have a really promising young group right now. If we can develop most of them properly, when they're ready to compete in the NHL is when you go add veteran depth, or trade away spare parts to fill the holes that are left.

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Old
07-23-2012, 03:07 PM
  #63
Karate Johnson
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If, in the East arms race, we add Doan for 7.5 for 4 years while the rangers add Nash and Philly adds Suter it's seems like a waste.

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Old
07-23-2012, 03:11 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royisgone View Post
Identifying the offer as "massive overpayment" is the easy part here.

The tougher task is determining whether or not such a deal is stupid or not.

We have a lot of young guys who could learn a lot from Shane Doan, in fact, their career personas could be molded by him. What is the value of that?

And the Sabres are trying to re-invent themselves as a "go to" franchise for free agents/top players interested in playing for a great franchise with serious intentions of winning a Cup year after year.

You don't re-invent the Sabres' 40 year history of mediocrity overnight, and you don't do it by standing pat with normal, conventional thinking or moves.

If the Sabres really did sign Doan to this deal, it would be a loss leader.

Kind of like what FOX did years ago when they decided it was time to be a contender in TV broadcasting. They signed a crazy expensive deal to show NFL games. It put them on the map and made them a player.

Sometimes you have to give in order to receive.

You may not personally like the offer, and maybe you wouldn't make it yourself after careful consideration if you were the GM, but there are plenty of reasons why this offer is not "STUPID" even if it is overpayment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
It's been almost two decades since the Rangers won the Cup.

Since the lockout, the Sabres have more ECFs appearances (2 to 1) and the same number of playoff series wins (4) as the Rangers.

I wouldn't use them as the model that the Sabres should follow.

The Flyers are a little better (7 playoff series wins, 2 ECFs, and 1 SCFs appearances), but they haven't won it all, either.

I like the Red Wings approach where they draft and develop well, they retain the homegrown franchise lynchpins, and then add solid complementary pieces via trade and UFA as people are attracted to the hoemgrown core and the overall culture of the franchise.

The Sabres are on the right path. I just hope they have the patience to not rush things with more Leino-ish mistakes in UFA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 View Post
I agree with this. It seems like by far the best way to build a franchise capable of sustaining a winning culture over any significant period of time. I think Pegula recognizes that. I think Regier knows he got bit last year for signing Leino for the sake of making a splash/being a player in the UFA market. We have a really promising young group right now. If we can develop most of them properly, when they're ready to compete in the NHL is when you go add veteran depth, or trade away spare parts to fill the holes that are left.
So how long before they develop and we are allowed to make a splash 5 yrs 4 yrs? I'm with Royisgone on this one guys. When was the last time the Sabres offered a RFA an offer sheet? I wish they would just sign Doan and get it over with.

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Old
07-23-2012, 03:17 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by AlexanderMogilny89 View Post
So how long before they develop and we are allowed to make a splash 5 yrs 4 yrs? I'm with Royisgone on this one guys. When was the last time the Sabres offered a RFA an offer sheet? I wish they would just sign Doan and get it over with.
Isn't that up to Doan?

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07-23-2012, 03:18 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
If, in the East arms race, we add Doan for 7.5 for 4 years while the rangers add Nash and Philly adds Suter it's seems like a waste.
You mean Weber?

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07-23-2012, 03:30 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CrankyJay View Post
Isn't that up to Doan?
Yes it is up to Doan to sign, and the Sabres if they want to offer him the contract. Not the gm's of the Buffalo Sabres message board. It's Pegulas money. Not the ones who say i would never sign him to that contract. Of course you would not because it's not your money. Nothing towards you crankyJay. I believe Doan has another 3 yrs left to give of 200 hits and 50 points. Also with the younger players benefiting from him is priceless imo. He is worth the contract. People think he will play for 1 more yr and regress. Not the case. Watch him blow up with Vanek and whoever else and get 60 points and another 200 hits to go along with his leadership. Get it done Buffalo. Instant contenders if they do. IMO. Watch him go some where else and

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Old
07-23-2012, 03:32 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderMogilny89 View Post
So how long before they develop and we are allowed to make a splash 5 yrs 4 yrs? I'm with Royisgone on this one guys. When was the last time the Sabres offered a RFA an offer sheet? I wish they would just sign Doan and get it over with.
I don't want them to make a splash.

I want them to add guys that make sense and Doan as a player makes sense. But, the contract it would take to get him here is likely to be viewed as a mistake in hindsight.

Doan at 2 yrs $8M would be fine.

4yrs $30M is a mistake.

The Sabres can sign a guy like Doan when they don't have to overpay to get him because Buffalo is indeed "Hockey Heaven".

Until then, the Sabres should just say no to overpaying guys.

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07-23-2012, 05:37 PM
  #69
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Is it reasonable to assume now that NYR are not pursuing Doan anymore

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07-23-2012, 05:39 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by AlexanderMogilny89 View Post
So how long before they develop and we are allowed to make a splash 5 yrs 4 yrs? I'm with Royisgone on this one guys. When was the last time the Sabres offered a RFA an offer sheet? I wish they would just sign Doan and get it over with.
Next years UFA class seems like a good time to strike

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07-23-2012, 06:35 PM
  #71
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Is it reasonable to assume now that NYR are not pursuing Doan anymore
not really considering they still have ~$13m in capspace (with only MDZ to re-sign)

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07-23-2012, 07:40 PM
  #72
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not really considering they still have ~$13m in capspace (with only MDZ to re-sign)
Look at their ELC's up after next year, though, that's something.

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07-23-2012, 07:43 PM
  #73
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They have 3 players signed past next year, lol.

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07-23-2012, 07:57 PM
  #74
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As for the rumored deal of 4 years, 30 million....it's a bit much.

I'd be willing to give Doan term or cash, but not both.

I'd offer two contracts: 3 years, 18 million or 4 years, 20 million

Maybe I'd be willing to do 4 years, 22 million if it sealed it.

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Old
07-23-2012, 07:57 PM
  #75
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voted hes worth it but no way in hell he signs with Buffalo now with NY and Phillys moves....

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