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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:03 PM
  #26
MarleauApologist
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SJ does not take this. 12-13 may very well be the last season we are able to win; without Boyle there is no way we get near the cup.

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07-18-2012, 04:17 PM
  #27
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Wonder if Ranger fans who claim we need more goals from the blue line realize 26% of our goals came from dmen?? We need more offense from our forwards.

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07-18-2012, 04:17 PM
  #28
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Also kings got 12% from D

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:29 PM
  #29
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Rangers are also not adding 6.6 million for a guy who is 35 years old when its already a strength of the team

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07-18-2012, 04:32 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by hateseed View Post
The only thing I learned here is that Boyle is criminally underrated, both in skill/ability and compete level.

That anyone, anywhere thinks he can be had for a bottom 6 and a (albeit good) prospect is frankly laughable.

The report is that Gaborik was offered for him straight-up and the Sharks quashed the deal once the surgery happened. Boyle is only moved for fairly elite, proven, top-quality talent, and only if Doug Wilson has a defensive coverage strategy in place to boot.

That report is ridiculous. Sather wants to add more offense, not trade his 40g scorer for a defensemen. That's a horrible proposal

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:40 PM
  #31
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I would consider trading Boyle, but not for that.

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Old
07-18-2012, 04:41 PM
  #32
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It's tough to have a legitimate discussion about Dan Boyle's trade value because people on here will always point to his age and say they won't trade anyone for an 'old guy'. I don't want to put names to trades or anything like that because I know how argumentative it can get when it comes to this particular player. For the Sharks to trade Boyle, they would need a left side PMD and forward help with speed being a point of emphasis. Futures would be nice as an add-on but the basis behind a deal or set of deals would be players the Sharks need for next season.

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Old
07-18-2012, 05:48 PM
  #33
Gardner McKay
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
And yet it was still one of the worst in the league
Can't fix a broken power play system with different players. The way they run the power play has to be fixed. Boyle would help only if the coaching staff changed the way they run the horrific power play.

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Old
07-18-2012, 05:51 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Sharks for Cup View Post
SJ does not take this. 12-13 may very well be the last season we are able to win; without Boyle there is no way we get near the cup.
Yeah I don't disagree. Sharks would never make this deal while they are still contending. If not... well thats a different story as McIlrath has come a loooong way since being drafted. Looks more and more like he will be an NHL defenseman. Why people want to trade McIlrath when he has continuously progressed? Beyond me.

Even at 36 Boyle still has it.

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:02 PM
  #35
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by WantonAbandon View Post
I agree but what was proposed was a bad trade for the Sharks but a miracle steal for the Rangers.
It's not because WE DON'T NEED Boyle.

We need offense, but from our FORWARDS.

You're trying to tell me what my team needs when you really don't watch it and you're terribly wrong in doing so. Just stop.

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Fact is with Boyle, the Rangers would likely go from 23rd to possibly 1st place on the pp. At least top five.
No, it's not a fact, re-read what I've said. It's the way the power play is ran, not the personnel. Just stop trying to tell me what my team needs to do. Did you watch all 100 Rangers games this season? Well I did, and I think I know my own team a lot better than you do.

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But your right from the Sharks point of view there is no discussion.
You're the one advocating the trade from the Rangers perspective, yet there is no discussion from the Sharks point of view?

Please, just stop. Now you're just contradicting yourself.

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:12 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Blades of Glory View Post
Sorry, but the package that is being offered is completely and utterly useless to the Sharks. Dubinsky is a solid player that brings many good attributes to a team, but he is of absolutely no use to the Sharks. He is a center. The Sharks' top six features 3 All-Star centers and a fourth that scored 30 goals while being the best faceoff man in the NHL. They do have a need for a third-line center, and I do think that Dubinsky would be a fabulous fit in that regard, but the bottom line is that they are not going to trade Boyle in order to fill a hole in their bottom six.
No he is not.

That said, it's a bad proposal for the Sharks...

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07-18-2012, 06:22 PM
  #37
Gardner McKay
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Originally Posted by Bacchus View Post
No he is not.

That said, it's a bad proposal for the Sharks...
Yes he is. Came into the league as a center, most of his time has been spent as a center, particularly a lot of time as the second line center. Only with the addition of Richards as 1C, Stepan as 2C, it was thought Dubinsky is to valuable of a top 6 player to make 3C especially with Anisimov as 3C, so they moved him to left wing.

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:30 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
It's not because WE DON'T NEED Boyle.

We need offense, but from our FORWARDS.

You're trying to tell me what my team needs when you really don't watch it and you're terribly wrong in doing so. Just stop.



No, it's not a fact, re-read what I've said. It's the way the power play is ran, not the personnel. Just stop trying to tell me what my team needs to do. Did you watch all 100 Rangers games this season? Well I did, and I think I know my own team a lot better than you do.



You're the one advocating the trade from the Rangers perspective, yet there is no discussion from the Sharks point of view?

Please, just stop. Now you're just contradicting yourself.
How is this so hard for people to understand?

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:32 PM
  #39
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Fans around the league, including Ranger fans, have a short term memory when it comes to Dubi... He had one bad year last year, but the year before he lead our team in scoring with 62 points, and this was while playing against the other teams' top defense pairings with Anisimov and Cally. He's a great penalty killer and defensive forward as well, and probably the Rangers strongest player along the boards. Before last year, he never had a season below 40 points, and he's only 25 i think...

Like someone said earlier in the thread, NYR problem is not the backend, but that the forwards don't score enough. I think Dubi will get back to his usual ways this season and get 50-60 points as the 2nd line left wing. He was not even that bad this year, he was just insanely snakebitten in terms of scoring.. I say give him another year on the team and we will not regret it

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:34 PM
  #40
DuckEatinShark
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Sorry we're not rebuilding.

And we're not exactly in a position to trade away top-pairing defensemen at this time.

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Old
07-18-2012, 06:57 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
How is this so hard for people to understand?
Because even with the proper coaching adjustments, you're not going to turn a power play ranked 23rd into top ten by just altering that aspect properly. A big part of the Rangers woes on the power play is the coaching. However, personnel is a part of it as well.

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Old
07-18-2012, 07:28 PM
  #42
Gardner McKay
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Because even with the proper coaching adjustments, you're not going to turn a power play ranked 23rd into top ten by just altering that aspect properly. A big part of the Rangers woes on the power play is the coaching. However, personnel is a part of it as well.
Ill use a bigger example than a power play to disprove this, the St. Louis Blues. No personnel improvements, just a coaching change which is often a complete system change.

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Old
07-18-2012, 07:34 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Ill use a bigger example than a power play to disprove this, the St. Louis Blues. No personnel improvements, just a coaching change which is often a complete system change.
Except that doesn't disprove it at all. St. Louis last season had a better power play than they did this season with the coaching change. We're not talking about a team's wins and loss total. We're talking about the power play.

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Old
07-18-2012, 07:42 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Yes he is. Came into the league as a center, most of his time has been spent as a center, particularly a lot of time as the second line center. Only with the addition of Richards as 1C, Stepan as 2C, it was thought Dubinsky is to valuable of a top 6 player to make 3C especially with Anisimov as 3C, so they moved him to left wing.
Um, this doesn't exactly fit with reality. Dubinsky was shifted to LW midway through the 08/09 season. Before Stepan. Well before Richards. His move to LW had far more to do with the team's desire to get him more involved in the offense than the rest of the roster.

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Old
07-18-2012, 07:48 PM
  #45
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
It's tough to have a legitimate discussion about Dan Boyle's trade value because people on here will always point to his age and say they won't trade anyone for an 'old guy'. I don't want to put names to trades or anything like that because I know how argumentative it can get when it comes to this particular player. For the Sharks to trade Boyle, they would need a left side PMD and forward help with speed being a point of emphasis. Futures would be nice as an add-on but the basis behind a deal or set of deals would be players the Sharks need for next season.
I'm not trying to argue his value.

This trade doesn't make sense for any side.

Rangers

- The Rangers power play problem is not is the personnel, but the way it's ran. They don't need Boyle. Just for Tortarella to start using the one timer more often and putting the point men on their off-wings to do so.

- A fairly decent portion of the Rangers goals came from defensemen this season.

- The Rangers can't afford to give up assets for another defenseman, especially not one that's 36. If it was Weber, that's another story.

Sharks

- This is a return that might not be good enough for Boyle, value wise. Although he's 36, he's still a very good offensive defenseman who defensive game isn't bad.

- The Sharks can use him, so I don't know why they'd be looking to trade him unless they're going into rebuild mode, which I don't see happening right this moment, but could in the next few years possibly.

- They've gotta be getting a quality puck moving defender somewhere in return from the package, and the Rangers aren't going to trade MDZ for a 36 year old Boyle, no matter how well he's still playing.

This just doesn't work from either side.

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Old
07-18-2012, 08:11 PM
  #46
Pinkfloyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
I'm not trying to argue his value.

This trade doesn't make sense for any side.

Rangers

- The Rangers power play problem is not is the personnel, but the way it's ran. They don't need Boyle. Just for Tortarella to start using the one timer more often and putting the point men on their off-wings to do so.

- A fairly decent portion of the Rangers goals came from defensemen this season.

- The Rangers can't afford to give up assets for another defenseman, especially not one that's 36. If it was Weber, that's another story.

Sharks

- This is a return that might not be good enough for Boyle, value wise. Although he's 36, he's still a very good offensive defenseman who defensive game isn't bad.

- The Sharks can use him, so I don't know why they'd be looking to trade him unless they're going into rebuild mode, which I don't see happening right this moment, but could in the next few years possibly.

- They've gotta be getting a quality puck moving defender somewhere in return from the package, and the Rangers aren't going to trade MDZ for a 36 year old Boyle, no matter how well he's still playing.

This just doesn't work from either side.
In reality, history disagrees with your assertion that the power play is solely coach-based. A coaching strategy change is not going to turn a 23rd ranked power play into a top ten one on its own. It will be accompanied by personnel changes as well and the Rags may not need Boyle but their power play would definitely improve with him over anyone on that roster and by a good amount too.

Sharks aren't going to get a deal done in this forum when it comes to Dan Boyle because most people always have a problem with the age of a player when they're over 30. I don't want to argue value either because it never goes down a good road. lol I'm just saying what the Sharks will need in order to consider moving Boyle.

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Old
07-18-2012, 08:23 PM
  #47
Gardner McKay
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Except that doesn't disprove it at all. St. Louis last season had a better power play than they did this season with the coaching change. We're not talking about a team's wins and loss total. We're talking about the power play.
Im talking about what a system change can do for a team. You seem to think that changing how the Rangers PP is run won't effect it that much. I say it can. St. Louis had no player changes, but a coaching change that completely turned them around. Why can't changing the system work for the Rangers PP?

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Old
07-18-2012, 08:47 PM
  #48
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I always thought that we were supposed to be good trade partners, that's what people were saying for awhile. I think the idea was that we would trade a righty d-man for one of NYR's lefty d-man.

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Old
07-18-2012, 09:00 PM
  #49
JayP812
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That package does not make the Sharks better now or in the future. If we are trading Boyle, we can get a better returns. Considering all the young talent the Rangers have, it's insulting that those are the best prospects you're willing to give up.

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Old
07-18-2012, 09:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by NvincentYvalentineR View Post
Im talking about what a system change can do for a team. You seem to think that changing how the Rangers PP is run won't effect it that much. I say it can. St. Louis had no player changes, but a coaching change that completely turned them around. Why can't changing the system work for the Rangers PP?
And the problem is that you're not making an apples to apples comparison. Focus on the power play and not the wins and losses. A coaching change with regards to the power play will only yield a certain level of improvement with the same personnel. The chances of a coaching adjustment turning a 23rd rank power play into a top five power play is minute at best.

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