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Quincey re-signed 2 years 3.775m cap hit

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07-18-2012, 08:30 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
Kronwall may not be Superman but he is the best d-man on this team by a HUGE margin. He is the only one capable of playing against top lines. He will also play on the #1 PP unit probably with Sammy on the other point.
As for Zetterberg not being outspoken? You might remember a guy named Steve Yzerman? He wasn't exactly known for being outspoken. Quite the contrary. Zetterberg leads by example and he will in all probability be the next captain.
Yeah, he's the best and most experienced. But I believe we have a few guys back there that, given a real chance, can elevate their game to another level. Kindl, Smith, Quincy. Kindl and Smith both with a high pedigree. These guys growth have all been delayed by Lidstroms dominance for so long. We also don't know if this lineup is set yet. Plenty of time for some movement. In fact, by forfeiting their 1st this year and not being very active for front line players this summer so far, a trade for some more experience back there wouldn't surprise me one bit.

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07-18-2012, 08:31 PM
  #102
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Oh.............
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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Ericsson.

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07-18-2012, 08:38 PM
  #103
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Explain groomed.
Top 3 in Ice Time the last 4 seasons. Basically #2 in ice time behind Lidstrom the last 2 years, with the exception of White playing a few seconds more a game last year strictly due to him being right-handed.

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07-18-2012, 08:40 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
What about how Kronwall got top minutes with Lidstrom or was out there with the 1st forward unit often on the PP? I wouldn't say White leapfrogged him. Having two strong units can be better than having 1 slightly better unit.

I think this year more than ever you will see Kronwall getting north of 25/26 minutes per night and the rest of the defense getting around 17 minutes. They will all get a lot of playing time and listing them 2-6 will depend on the game. This whole drop him in this whole and bump this guy to this whole thing is not really how hockey works.
White leapfrogged him by them going out and acquiring him and Rafalski without him being promoted. I understand he's a left hand shot. And no argument out of me that 2 strong units are better than one strong one.
How many times did Kronwall play a 1st PP unit as a forward? I didnt watch every game last season, but if he played there at all I'm sure it was because of an injury or they were shorthanded in some unusual way.
And if Nick Kronwall gets north of 26 minutes a game this season on a regular basis, Babcock needs to have his head examined.

>This whole drop him in this whole and bump this guy to this whole thing is not really how hockey works.<

LOL. Please save your breathe on your idea of how it DOES work will you please?

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07-18-2012, 08:43 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Top 3 in Ice Time the last 4 seasons. Basically #2 in ice time behind Lidstrom the last 2 years, with the exception of White playing a few seconds more a game last year strictly due to him being right-handed.
Please dont tell Brad Stuart you cannot play an off defence position and excell in this league ok? The answer might not be what you want to hear.

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07-18-2012, 08:45 PM
  #106
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Slightly more than I initially hoped for. That said, it isn't a backbreaker and could be fairly easy to trade if he doesn't mesh. It's fairly certain he'll see top 4 minutes with the way our D is set up currently.

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07-18-2012, 08:46 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Bushay View Post
Please dont tell Brad Stuart you cannot play an off defence position and excell in this league ok? The answer might not be what you want to hear.
I have no idea what that means.

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07-18-2012, 08:49 PM
  #108
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Even Lidstrom wasn't great in his first few years. Smith has a long way to go to develop into anything near his billing. He may achieve it but I would expect it to be 3 years or more before he does. At this point he is a defensive liability. Kindl just does nothing for me. The powers that be certainly know better than I do but I just don't see it. I am optimistic that Q will earn his pay but I don't think he is a guy we can count on to shut down top lines night in and night out. Like Franzen says in the Ram commercial, "Howard's in trouble". I suspect we will sign some stay home guy as the 7th man but I wouldn't expect any big moves. I think Holland will sit on the cap money. He will sell the fan base that we have all this cash for the trade deadline just like last year. What he does with it will depend on how the season goes league wide. I also think he will try to set up for the UFA market next July just like this year. It remains to be seen whether or not he can pull off a deal for a player of significance but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets outbid again and comes up empty handed. At that point the full on rebuild will probably begin.
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Originally Posted by Bushay View Post
Yeah, he's the best and most experienced. But I believe we have a few guys back there that, given a real chance, can elevate their game to another level. Kindl, Smith, Quincy. Kindl and Smith both with a high pedigree. These guys growth have all been delayed by Lidstroms dominance for so long. We also don't know if this lineup is set yet. Plenty of time for some movement. In fact, by forfeiting their 1st this year and not being very active for front line players this summer so far, a trade for some more experience back there wouldn't surprise me one bit.

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07-18-2012, 08:54 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
To the bold, our best defenseman.

Also Zetterberg leads by example on the ice and can relate and communicate with more players in the room. It's not that he is better than someone else at it. He gives it 100% every shift and is a dog on the forecheck and in his own end. He leads plenty.
Zetterberg's best season was 07-08, His numbers have steadily declined since then. He's not the player he once was. Clearly.
But if you think cause YOU, a guy with Zetterberg in his Avatar says he leads by example better than Kronwall leads by example. Who am I to argue with that. I guess that should be good enough for me! You obviously sit next to him in that room to observe all that locker room leadership. What number do you wear btw?
And how many % would you say Kronwall gives ever shift? 90? 85? 95?
Too bad they don't sell meter guns to read that huh?

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07-18-2012, 08:57 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
It is but in the past 20 years we have essentially been the frontrunners for the Cup every year. We will have some leaner years ahead of us for sure but that defense is by all means capable of doing the job. With a better goalie tandem and if our defense can get the puck out of the zone quickly we will be fine. The problem this unit will have is when the opposition established possession in the offensive zone. They don't have that guy that will go take the puck every time.
I agree for the most part - with the exception of the last 3 years we were always one of te favorites.

It's a shame we saved up 20 million in cap space over those years, only to conclude now that "oh well, we were great for a long time, it's our turn to be average".

These "lean" years ahead of us were most definitely avoidable.

Unfortunately we have a GM who turned complacent/gun shy and from the sounds of it on these boards, many fans in the same boat.

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07-18-2012, 08:58 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushay View Post
Yeah, he's the best and most experienced. But I believe we have a few guys back there that, given a real chance, can elevate their game to another level. Kindl, Smith, Quincy. Kindl and Smith both with a high pedigree. These guys growth have all been delayed by Lidstroms dominance for so long. We also don't know if this lineup is set yet. Plenty of time for some movement. In fact, by forfeiting their 1st this year and not being very active for front line players this summer so far, a trade for some more experience back there wouldn't surprise me one bit.
Smith is the only one of those 3 that I have any high expectations about. Maybe Kindl's been buried for too long for me to get excited about. I was a Quincey fan before we waived him. I was glad he got his shot somewhere. I just don't see him developing any further than he currently is. And right now, to me, he's just an OK #4 guy... and we already had one of those in Ericsson. Two OK #4's don't make a #2 or even #3.

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07-18-2012, 08:59 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
I have no idea what that means.
Well Stuart shoots left and played the right side correct?
I think you knew what I meant.

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07-18-2012, 09:07 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Bushay View Post
Zetterberg's best season was 07-08, His numbers have steadily declined since then. He's not the player he once was. Clearly.
But if you think cause YOU, a guy with Zetterberg in his Avatar says he leads by example better than Kronwall leads by example. Who am I to argue with that. I guess that should be good enough for me! You obviously sit next to him in that room to observe all that locker room leadership. What number do you wear btw?
And how many % would you say Kronwall gives ever shift? 90? 85? 95?
Too bad they don't sell meter guns to read that huh?
I never said Kronwall doesn't play every shift hard or that he talks less in the room or that he wouldn't be a good captain. I never even hinted that I know what goes on in the room. My username (my avatar is tyler durden) has nothing to do with it. All you have done is provide your observations and taken offense to me disagreeing with you. All while making jokes about my posts and deflecting from having a conversation/debate about it.

Grow up...

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07-18-2012, 09:07 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Bushay View Post
Well Stuart shoots left and played the right side correct?
I think you knew what I meant.
I genuinely didn't. Kronwall is puck moving defenseman, Stuart is a stay at home type. So Kronwall's style of play is not well suited for the right side. It's strictly a positional thing, not an implication of Kronwall's game.

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07-18-2012, 09:08 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by garry1221 View Post
Smith is the only one of those 3 that I have any high expectations about. Maybe Kindl's been buried for too long for me to get excited about. I was a Quincey fan before we waived him. I was glad he got his shot somewhere. I just don't see him developing any further than he currently is. And right now, to me, he's just an OK #4 guy... and we already had one of those in Ericsson. Two OK #4's don't make a #2 or even #3.
No. Ericsson's never excelled in that role ever. For Christs sake he was a forward when we drafted him. Quincy OTOH...HAS played well in this league already in the top billing role. All I'm saying is give him a shot. If it doesn't work out we can go to plan B. Smith's gonna need more seasoning. Kindl's in a position to take another step. Hence the reason Quincy was let go the first time around. I believe they see what I see in him. I've finally given up on Ericsson. I was at a exhibition game the year we drafted him sitting in some ice level seats. He was so big and raw and no one new him. I always thought he had the potential to make a big impact in this league down the road. I don't feel that way anymore.

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07-18-2012, 09:11 PM
  #116
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Actually Z's #s have been pretty consistent. Since his 92 point campaign in 07,08 he has put up 73, 70, 80, and 69. I thought he was far and away the best player in our brief playoff run last year. He is playing with a much worse team than he did in 07/08. If you remember he was on Pav's line a lot more then. Zetterberg has a lot of hockey left in him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushay View Post
Zetterberg's best season was 07-08, His numbers have steadily declined since then. He's not the player he once was. Clearly.
But if you think cause YOU, a guy with Zetterberg in his Avatar says he leads by example better than Kronwall leads by example. Who am I to argue with that. I guess that should be good enough for me! You obviously sit next to him in that room to observe all that locker room leadership. What number do you wear btw?
And how many % would you say Kronwall gives ever shift? 90? 85? 95?
Too bad they don't sell meter guns to read that huh?

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07-18-2012, 09:12 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by sureWhyNot View Post
I agree for the most part - with the exception of the last 3 years we were always one of te favorites.

It's a shame we saved up 20 million in cap space over those years, only to conclude now that "oh well, we were great for a long time, it's our turn to be average".

These "lean" years ahead of us were most definitely avoidable.

Unfortunately we have a GM who turned complacent/gun shy and from the sounds of it on these boards, many fans in the same boat.
It really is a shame, but we all knew this would happen eventually especially after the cap. As far as the lean years maybe we push them back for 3-5 more years or even a decade if certain moves or draft picks are made, but they were not avoidable (I assume you didn't mean totally avoidable just pointing out the obvious).

I think the team will surprise some of us. We don't have a contending team on paper, but we do have a lot of guys that need to step up. It's surprising how some players respond to a situation like this.

Kronwall, Quincey, Ericsson, Smith, Kindl, Filppula, Nyquist, Helm, Abdelkader, Howard, Cleary, Bertuzzi and Franzen all have something to prove. That could bode very well for us.

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07-18-2012, 09:13 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
I never said Kronwall doesn't play every shift hard or that he talks less in the room or that he wouldn't be a good captain. I never even hinted that I know what goes on in the room. My username (my avatar is tyler durden) has nothing to do with it. All you have done is provide your observations and taken offense to me disagreeing with you. All while making jokes about my posts and deflecting from having a conversation/debate about it.

Grow up...
Ok. I apologize. fair enough. Your retort just wasn't very fact based or convincing in my eyes.
When people talk in absolutes....just sticks in my craw a bit.

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07-18-2012, 09:14 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Bushay View Post
No. Ericsson's never excelled in that role ever. For Christs sake he was a forward when we drafted him. Quincy OTOH...HAS played well in this league already in the top billing role. All I'm saying is give him a shot. If it doesn't work out we can go to plan B. Smith's gonna need more seasoning. Kindl's in a position to take another step. Hence the reason Quincy was let go the first time around. I believe they see what I see in him. I've finally given up on Ericsson. I was at a exhibition game the year we drafted him sitting in some ice level seats. He was so big and raw and no one new him. I always thought he had the potential to make a big impact in this league down the road. I don't feel that way anymore.
Strange that you give up on Ericsson right after he finishes playing the best hockey of his career and shows us all he does have what it takes..

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07-18-2012, 09:19 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by schminksbro View Post
Actually Z's #s have been pretty consistent. Since his 92 point campaign in 07,08 he has put up 73, 70, 80, and 69. I thought he was far and away the best player in our brief playoff run last year. He is playing with a much worse team than he did in 07/08. If you remember he was on Pav's line a lot more then. Zetterberg has a lot of hockey left in him.
I just personally think Z's game has declined of late. Since right around the time he got married. I know everyone doesnt feel that way. I've just not seen anything in his game of late to get excited about. I don;t see him creating space out there as he used to. Maybe it has a lot to do with his team/linemates. And is [one] of the reason I believe Kronwall might make a better captain.

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07-18-2012, 09:25 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ZetterBurger View Post
Strange that you give up on Ericsson right after he finishes playing the best hockey of his career and shows us all he does have what it takes..
When Nick went down for those 11 games in March, he didnt impress me at all that he was ready to step up. He was the biggest, strongest guy we had back there. Opportunity knocked. He didn't answer it on time. Kinda dropped the ball for me so to speak. Hell, he played 14 more games than Kindl and Kindl out scored him by 2 points.

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07-18-2012, 09:28 PM
  #122
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Bushay ... another veteran of the newsgroup wars emerges

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07-18-2012, 09:30 PM
  #123
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Bushay ... another veteran of the newsgroup wars emerges
Ha Ha. Whos this?

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07-18-2012, 09:31 PM
  #124
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What do you think of that group on the PK?
Really, not sure what to think of it at this point. Will have to see them play in the preseason I suppose. Not worried about Kronwall and Ericcson. Quincey's a bit of a question mark. Pretty sure that one of Smith, Kindl, or White can do a good enough job as a #4 PKer. Not sure whether we'll get a second from that group to be an adequate #5 PKer though. Basically, a lot of question marks. I don't have a ton of confidence in them at this point, but PKing is easier than 5v5 defense. It's mostly coaching, and I think that group has the requisite talent, so it'll by and large be on Peters to get these guys to execute.

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07-18-2012, 09:31 PM
  #125
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Because?
What because?
Kronwall and Ericsson are two defensemen we can count on to play somewhat effective defense,

Kronwall is weak along the boards and in front of the net and he has some positional issues.
Ericsson is stronger in front of the net, but he lacks defensive smarts too often.

Quincey? He's a freelancer in his own end. The kind of guy a ref will call for a 2nd minor to create a 5-on-3.
Smith? A rookie. His defense is going to be an issue at even strength, let alone with a man down.
White? Weak defensively
Kindl? Too soft. Inexperienced in a defensive role.

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