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Top Four Defenseman to the Leafs

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Old
07-18-2012, 09:48 PM
  #26
Dutch Dreams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesarmstrong22 View Post
I could see the
Coyotes dealing rusty klesla. They just got Michalek and they have d prospects like gormly and rundbland to come up and take klesla's spot. They desperately need C. Doesn't matter who. How about a trade around Tim connoly (cap dump and provides some C depth in phx) could play a similar role to what Langow did there last year, plus a 2nd and another B level prospect like d'amigo??

Connoly, d'amigo and a 2nd for rusty klesla??
Good points, but Klesla was arguably the Coyotes' best defenseman in the playoffs, and without him their depth is actually not that great.

Morris should be starting on the bottom-pairing, and Gormley and Rundblad, at least initially, not to mention Schlemko and Stone, should too.

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Old
07-18-2012, 09:48 PM
  #27
Leafs87
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Literally the last of our worries

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Old
07-18-2012, 09:52 PM
  #28
Dutch Dreams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
Why this thread. The Leafs are filled with top4 dmen and defensive depth.

Phaneuf: #1 rock dman that hits like a truck. Discount @6.5M.
Gunnarsson: Most reliable defensive d-man, minute eater than can face the top lines.
Liles: Great puck mover with superior hockey IQ and great skating.
Gardiner: That goes without explanation.
Franson: 6'6" two-way stud that makes great passes. Was a top4 in Nashville.
Holzer: Had monster season and playoffs in the AHL, 6'4" defensive beast. Only 24 years old.

Under Carlyle and his cup-winning system this should be a wall.
Only Gardiner, Gunnarsson, Phaneuf, and Liles are consistent top-four defenseman, and we'll have to see how Gardiner continues next season.

Also, the Gunnarsson-Phaneuf pairing means that Liles and Gardiner would have to play together, and obviously that's not an ideal pairing.

Franson, Komisarek, and Holzer have top-four potential, but we can't be hoping things go well. We need security, hence an established top-four guy.

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07-18-2012, 09:54 PM
  #29
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Carter Ashton?
Haha, it's funny - Ashton Carter sounds like a more normal name than Carter Ashton.

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Old
07-18-2012, 09:54 PM
  #30
Tommy Torini
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Dreams View Post
Only Gardiner, Gunnarsson, Phaneuf, and Liles are consistent top-four defenseman, and we'll have to see how Gardiner continues next season.

Also, the Gunnarsson-Phaneuf pairing means that Liles and Gardiner would have to play together, and obviously that's not an ideal pairing.

Franson, Komisarek, and Holzer have top-four potential, but we can't be hoping things go well. We need security, hence an established top-four guy.
Fyi he's trolling. Don't take what he's saying seriously.

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Old
07-18-2012, 10:00 PM
  #31
IPreferPi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamesarmstrong22 View Post
I could see the
Coyotes dealing rusty klesla. They just got Michalek and they have d prospects like gormly and rundbland to come up and take klesla's spot. They desperately need C. Doesn't matter who. How about a trade around Tim connoly (cap dump and provides some C depth in phx) could play a similar role to what Langow did there last year, plus a 2nd and another B level prospect like d'amigo??

Connoly, d'amigo and a 2nd for rusty klesla??
Most Yotes would be loath to deal Klesla. Klesla provides a aggressive, gritty presence on our blueline w/ some underrated offensive skills as well - we love his play and his resilience, esp. considering all the pucks he took to the face during the playoffs. He and OEL form a potent PK unit.

Michalek is a shot-blocking machine, but he doesn't really hit - he's not the same type of player as Klesla, even if they're defensive d-men. We just lost Aucoin and Roszival probably won't come back, so Klesla and Morris are our only two real thumpers on D. Rundblad is still too much of a defensive liability, and although Gormley may be ready next year, we'd be taking a major gamble if we rush him too soon.

We are very interested in Connolly or getting Lombardi back. But not at the expense of moving Klesla.

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Old
07-18-2012, 11:26 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by fst6 View Post
First Toronto trade type thread I've seen that doesn't include them trading 4 garbage players for a top player.
give you macarthur, lombardi, franson AND komisarek for pietrangelo


i understand thats a lot of money against your cap, so we'll take stewart too. he didnt have a good year anyway.

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Old
07-18-2012, 11:27 PM
  #33
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Tallinder sound good to you guys?

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Old
07-19-2012, 06:01 AM
  #34
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
Why this thread. The Leafs are filled with top4 dmen and defensive depth.

Phaneuf: #1 rock dman that hits like a truck. Discount @6.5M.
Gunnarsson: Most reliable defensive d-man, minute eater than can face the top lines.
Liles: Great puck mover with superior hockey IQ and great skating.
Gardiner: That goes without explanation.
Franson: 6'6" two-way stud that makes great passes. Was a top4 in Nashville.
Holzer: Had monster season and playoffs in the AHL, 6'4" defensive beast. Only 24 years old.

Under Carlyle and his cup-winning system this should be a wall.
Reality:

Phanuef: #1 defenceman who's a fairly good hitter and has a big shot, but questionable coverage in his own end.

Gunnarsson: Most reliable defensive d-man, minute eater than can face the top lines, can compensate for Phaneuf in his own end. A reasonable puckmover who doesn't make mistakes, but isn't going to light up the scoresheet.

Liles: A very good puckmover who's at home on the 2nd pairing, but isn't that great in his own end and is coming off a bad year injury-wise.

Gardiner: A rookie puckmover who looked extremely good last year, probably poised for a sophmore slump the way his ego was stroked this summer. Will probably be a solid #5/6 guy this year.

Franson: A decent two-way #4/5 guy who doesn't use his frame to it's full advantage in his own end, and doesn't have great defensive coverage either. He'd be fine, if we didn't also have Liles/Gardiner.

Komisarek: A former big minute physical defenceman who struggled immensely under Ron Wilson. Maybe he can regain the top 4 status and be the defenceman we need on the 2nd pair, but certainly not something we should rely upon.

Holzer: An AHL defenceman who should be able to take the #7 spot and play 50-60 games.

The problem is that Toronto's only got 3 players who they can reliably project to be a top4 defenceman... and considering who those 3 are -- the 4th needs to be a physical stay-at-home guy. Komisarek is the only of the potential top 4 guys that fits that mould.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:14 AM
  #35
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Kaberle?

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:34 AM
  #36
Dutch Dreams
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Originally Posted by njdevils3034 View Post
Tallinder sound good to you guys?
Naw, maybe if he had a year left on his contract, but he has 2.

Can he even play the right side anyway?

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:07 AM
  #37
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Hell....we could have offersheeted Weber for a low price of 146 Billion dollars.....

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:08 AM
  #38
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CARL GUNARSSON IS NOT A TOP 4 DMAN

He is barely an NHL dman.
THE ROLE HES GIVEN TO PLAY IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM ON OUR BLUELINE

[Im so outraged some accually beleive hes a good fit for our (or any) top 4 THAT THE CAPS ARE NEEDED]

We need someone who can actually play the role properly, I cant even count how many time Ive seen a pairing with Gunarsson on it get scored against. Hes so unware in his own end at times, one of the easiest parts of playing D in hockey is watching your man infront of the net, and carl the ****ing clown can barely do that right most days.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
Why this thread. The Leafs are filled with top4 dmen and defensive depth.

Phaneuf: #1 rock dman that hits like a truck. Discount @6.5M. Not quite a discount but ok
Gunnarsson: Most reliable defensive d-man, minute eater than can face the top lines. Worst thing Ive read all month
Liles: Great puck mover with superior hockey IQ and great skating.IMO our most consistent dman, brings his 5th gear every night
Gardiner: That goes without explanation. If he keeps going the path hes going he could be better than Liles
Franson: 6'6" two-way stud that makes great passes. Was a top4 in Nashville. If only he got his opportunity last year, IDK why coach would keep ****Schenn on the ice when he was struggling and had an unproven Franson with a solid background riding the pine, fukin Wilson
Holzer: Had monster season and playoffs in the AHL, 6'4" defensive beast. Only 24 years old. Can never put money on a guy with no NHL exp



Under Carlyle and his cup-winning system this should be a wall.
We have 2.5 top 4 dman, Dion, Liles, and Gardiner gets a half point for risk of failure. Franson I truly beleive will fit that missing gap on the blueline and I fullly expect him to have Gunnarssons job by year end, but thats no guarantee so I think its a must we aquire one more dman. +Komi gives us 7, but that includes Holzer, which means we have 2 defenceman out of our 7 that are highly prone to playing like ****. Throw in the possibility of injury, AND WE NEED ANOTHER DMAN NAAOOOO


Last edited by Crabovski*: 07-19-2012 at 09:18 AM.
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Old
07-19-2012, 09:16 AM
  #39
Liferleafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabovski View Post
CARL GUNARSSON IS NOT A TOP 4 DMAN

He is barely an NHL dman.
THE ROLE HES GIVEN TO PLAY IS THE MAJOR PROBLEM ON OUR BLUELINE

[Im so outraged some accually beleive hes a good fit for our (or any) top 4 THAT THE CAPS ARE NEEDED]

We need someone who can actually play the role properly, I cant even count how many time Ive seen a pairing with Gunarsson on it get scored against. Hes so unware in his own end at times, one of the easiest parts of playing D in hockey is watching your man infront of the net, and carl the ****ing clown can barely do that right most days.
While i won't put up a huge arguement, could it be that some of his deficiancies come from being paired with the worst defensive D-man we have in Phaneuf?

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:42 AM
  #40
Ricky Bobby
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Franson isn't a top 4 dman, never was and highly likely he never will be.

I encourage people to check the time on ice logs on NHL.com. He was a 6/7 dman under Wilson and Trotz. He was a 5/6 under Carlyle. Do HF Posters know something they don't?

5 on 5 he isn't good enough offensively to overlook his defensive shortcoming like say we can do with Liles.

Penalty Kill: Absolutely never gets used here. The PK was a major problem area for the team last year.

Powerplay: Is clearly stuck behind Phaneuf, Liles and Gardiner for this time. Rielly is probably with the team after this season and will need time on the powerplay. The option of using a forward on the point also is always there. Our PP wasn't a problem area last year.

Franson's skillset is very redundant in Toronto.

Offence wasn't the problem with the Leafs last year. It was the defensive side of the game. Franson doesn't address this and is to far down the depth chart to be one of our go to offensive guys. He also doesn't help in the toughness area at all.

I'd like to see the Leafs replace him with a dman who is reliable 5 on 5 that can play the penalty kill.

Hannan or Rozsival on 1 year deals fit the bill. Sign one of them, trade Franson for picks. If the Leafs aren't a playoff team by the deadline the option of trading Hannan or Rozsival for picks at the deadline to even further improve our asset base exists and a guy like Blacker can be called up for a late season audition.

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:45 AM
  #41
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I'd like Volchenkov or Mezaros. Like the way both of them play

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Old
07-19-2012, 10:15 AM
  #42
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Tallinder for RFA rights to Kulemin?

I suppose others have beaten me to the tallinder suggestion

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Old
07-19-2012, 10:19 AM
  #43
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07-19-2012, 10:22 AM
  #44
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Phaneuf
Gardiner
Gunnarson
Liles
-------------Not a bad top 4
Komisarek
Franson
Holzer
-----------Decent bottom pairing guys, despite Komi's contract

I imagine Holzer and Franson will get extended looks in the top 6 before the Leafs look to trade.

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Old
07-19-2012, 10:25 AM
  #45
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Tallinder for RFA rights to Kulemin?

I suppose others have beaten me to the tallinder suggestion
Leafs pass...

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Old
07-19-2012, 10:45 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Dutch Dreams View Post
Oh comon guys, for real, anybody on the market?
I seriously doubt the leafs will be trading anything away to bolster what is an obvious strength. They ditched Schenn because it was an obvious place where they could improve another area without weakening themselves. If they're looking to make a trade it will be to improve their goaltending or their forwards not their defence.

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:07 AM
  #47
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Funny, I thought the top 4 was fairly set with some combination of Phaneuf, Gunnar, Liles, Gardiner.

Which of those four are you bumping to the third pairing?

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Old
07-19-2012, 12:11 PM
  #48
mindmasher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
Why this thread. The Leafs are filled with top4 dmen and defensive depth.

Phaneuf: #1 rock dman that hits like a truck. Discount @6.5M.
Gunnarsson: Most reliable defensive d-man, minute eater than can face the top lines.
Liles: Great puck mover with superior hockey IQ and great skating.
Gardiner: That goes without explanation.
Franson: 6'6" two-way stud that makes great passes. Was a top4 in Nashville.
Holzer: Had monster season and playoffs in the AHL, 6'4" defensive beast. Only 24 years old.

Under Carlyle and his cup-winning system this should be a wall.
What a delusional post. TO's D is fine, but comon, Franson is a 2-way stud in which universe? Holzer is suddenly a lock to be an amazing defensive defenceman? And lets not talk about Liles shortcomings in his own end etc.

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Old
07-19-2012, 12:14 PM
  #49
Connor McJesus
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Originally Posted by mindmasher View Post
Franson is a 2-way stud in which universe?
Don't forget he was a top4 in Nashville in '10-11, back when they had a badass defense.

Quote:
Holzer is suddenly a lock to be an amazing defensive defenceman?
I never said that.

Quote:
And lets not talk about Liles shortcomings in his own end etc.
Yeah, let's not.

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Old
07-19-2012, 12:51 PM
  #50
Ricky Bobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
Don't forget he was a top4 in Nashville in '10-11, back when they had a badass defense.
He was never a top 4 in Nashville. He played behind stars like O'Brien, Klein and Bouillon.

He was also traded because Nashville valued the services of rookies like Blum and Ellis more.

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