HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

[PHI] Shea Weber Signs Offer Sheet With Flyers, 14yrs/$100m+ (Part II)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-19-2012, 04:00 AM
  #251
thadd
Oil4Life
 
thadd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: China
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,814
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to thadd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post

If the Preds match (and they probably will, barring unforseen financial difficulties), then Weber is a Pred for life.
What if he demands a trade after the first year of the contract and refuses to continue to play for the PReds?

What if Weber tells the Preds that he'll expect to get traded if the Preds match the offer-sheet?

Too many ifs.

thadd is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:00 AM
  #252
zeke
#freewilly
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 30,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
"It's my professional opinion that Hatcher is putting himself in danger by playing on that knee."

How do you prove perjury on that?
Why don't teams make up injuries to get rid of all their problem contracts?

zeke is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:00 AM
  #253
cptjeff
[insert joke here]
 
cptjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Washington, DC.
Country: United States
Posts: 8,809
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
It's a moot point because Pronger's in bad shape, but that would be nearly impossible to prove without, like, wiretapping Snider's office.
Which is why you probably won't get as far as a criminal case. But the medical board of ethics would have some very serious concerns, and probably would be able to take action.

And no doctor takes that risk to help out hockey ops. If it was discovered, their career would be destroyed, no ifs about it.

cptjeff is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:00 AM
  #254
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuy View Post
If I'm David Poile I would try to get my owner to modify the no trading rule in the next CBA so that it can't be done until the end of the next season, instead of for a whole year.
Doesn't matter. The contract would be grandfathered in

Krishna is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:01 AM
  #255
Gibsons Finest
Beast
 
Gibsons Finest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Saskatoon/Brandon
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
I don't believe a team or the league can force you to get a second opinion.
I meant in the sense that part of the crackdown on concussions was to have an impartial doctor clear any concussed player. And in this case, Pronger would be the one seeking the second opinion to get clearance.

Gibsons Finest is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:01 AM
  #256
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 12,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
I missed the part about the may or may not be legit... But considering they retired, I think it's safe to say it's legit.
Both said they were fine to play, but were put on IR. Now whether that was actually due to cap space or whether it was the doc's honest opinion they had more guts than brains and would be risking their health by playing is something only the doc and Flyer's management would know.

They really don't have much to complain about if they were dubiously retired against their will, anyway. These guy's got a Hell of a severance package.

billybudd is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:01 AM
  #257
KISSland
Registered User
 
KISSland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,682
vCash: 500
Nashville matches, waits a year, trades to Pittsburgh.

Poile:
troll.jpg

KISSland is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:01 AM
  #258
boredmale
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 24,460
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
If that were the case, then Nashville would be better off not matching and pocketing the 26 million and 4 first round draft picks.
The only problem is those 4 first rounders will probably end in the 20-30 range and chances are they won't be equal to Weber when all is said and done

Quote:
Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
I wanted to add that. You could definitely trade 5 1st round draft picks to say NYI for Tavares.

You essentially traded Weber and a 1st for Tavares.

It would really be hard to say no to 5 1st round draft picks for a 1st overall. And Nashville has been looking for a franchise forward for a while. Plus, Nashville is great at pounding out D.

If I'm Nashville Management, **** Weber, he can go to hell right now.
As an Islanders fan no way would I be happy if the Islanders trade Tavares for that

boredmale is online now  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:02 AM
  #259
Vipers31
Moderator
Advanced Stagnostic
 
Vipers31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bergisch Gladbach
Country: Germany
Posts: 12,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
No, if you IR him, you can exceed the cap by his salary as long as he never comes off. Only way to get that cap space back on a 35+ contract.
Huh, interesting, thanks. Seems like a bit of an obvious loophole if the IR-status is taken into question by the player. I can't see the NHL not having to address that if things ever came that far. (Even as there is that precedent with the other two you mentioned.) Thanks for clearing that up, anyway.

Vipers31 is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:02 AM
  #260
AE
Registered User
 
AE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Country: Sweden
Posts: 365
vCash: 500
Too recap:

Who: Weber
What: Sign offer sheet
Why: Want's a new contract before new CBA
What now: Get his contract, stays with Preds, plays with Flyers which he clearly sees as an option or if Preds match and he wants out he can request a trade later.
Win for Weber

Who: Flyers
What: Sent offer sheet
Why: Pronger is done
What now: Either gets Weber or nothing happens, no harm done, can try to trade for him in a year.
Nothing negative, potentially very positive

Who: Preds
What: Tried to trade Weber, then came the offer sheet
Why: They can't afford what Weber wants and they figured they would get something for him.
What now: Either match and get Weber to a long deal, but probably a bit more than they hoped for, still an option to trade him down the road. Or don't match and lose a great player.
Preds lose!

Question is, can Preds match? Why have they tried to trade him?
The contract is probably very front loaded, which makes the match and trade scenario unlikely.

AE is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:02 AM
  #261
NewGuy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,702
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Doesn't matter. The contract would be grandfathered in
Doubt it. The contracts depend on the rules in the CBA or there wouldn't have been a rollback last CBA.

NewGuy is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:03 AM
  #262
Iron Duke
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: San Dimas, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 2,839
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
What if he demands a trade after the first year of the contract and refuses to continue to play for the PReds?

What if Weber tells the Preds that he'll expect to get traded if the Preds match the offer-sheet?

Too many ifs.
If that is the case, then he is a moron for signing an offer sheet that the Preds would be able to match.

Iron Duke is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:03 AM
  #263
Henkka
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 9,533
vCash: 500
Can other team still make their own offer-sheets to Weber? And maybe go with higher value. Or is it that Weber can sign only one offer-sheet, if there was many of them on the table?

Henkka is online now  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:04 AM
  #264
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 19,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
No, it's not illegal. The doctor said he felt Hatcher's knee and Rathje's back (?) were too bad for them to play. Who is a judge to tell him otherwise? The judge isn't responsible if, I don't know, Hatcher took a slapshot in the knee and needed an amputation. The doctor is, so it's his call.

Besides, they each got every dime of their money, so the incentive to sue the team is really, really minimal.
In this kind of scenario he can get the NHLPA and other doctors to sign off on it. If he was indeed healthy. I don't think it is much of a concern, really the better indication would be if they couldn't get their insurance company to sign off on it because of just how severe the concussion was. The team doctor would have a hard time blocking this on his own.

The Zetterberg Era is online now  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:04 AM
  #265
Finlandia WOAT
Do U Like Quebec?
 
Finlandia WOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Raleigh NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,673
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
What if he demands a trade after the first year of the contract and refuses to continue to play for the PReds?

What if Weber tells the Preds that he'll expect to get traded if the Preds match the offer-sheet?

Too many ifs.
If that were the case, then why sign the offer sheet?

Just wait a year to UFA like Parise did, then get paid.

This isn't about playing in Nashville or Philadelphia. Weber just wants to see the Benjamin's.

In fact, if Weber wanted out, then he would have just let the Preds trade him instead of signing the offer sheet.

Finlandia WOAT is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:04 AM
  #266
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 19,824
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Can other team still make their own offer-sheets to Weber? And maybe go with higher value. Or is it that Weber can sign only one offer-sheet, if there was many of them on the table?
Not allowed.

The Zetterberg Era is online now  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:05 AM
  #267
Anomander Rake
Registered User
 
Anomander Rake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 533
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Can other team still make their own offer-sheets to Weber? And maybe go with higher value. Or is it that Weber can sign only one offer-sheet, if there was many of them on the table?
Once and offer sheet has been accepted the only other possibility is the team with the RFA rights exercising their right of first refusal.

Anomander Rake is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:05 AM
  #268
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 32,734
vCash: 500
The Flyers currently have Voracek as a RFA. Next summer it's Wayne Simmonds. Two years from now, Giroux, Schenn and Couturier. Wonder if Poile or any other GM would give the Flyers a receipt for the offer sheet.

I recall the Blues doing this to Vancouver after the Canucks gave an offer sheet to Backes. The Blues returned the favor by doing the same to Steve Bernier.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=242187
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=242851

Ziggy Stardust is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:06 AM
  #269
PPPower
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 71
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
They can't. The most salary that can ever be put on one player in a season is 20% of the cap, and 20% of 70.2 is 14.04M.
Yeah but they could also be responsible for the following years signing bonus as well, as they would have to pay it before he is trade-able. That's where the additional 12mil comes in.

PPPower is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:06 AM
  #270
pahlsson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by medhatcanuck View Post
I wanted to add that. You could definitely trade 5 1st round draft picks to say NYI for Tavares.

You essentially traded Weber and a 1st for Tavares.

It would really be hard to say no to 5 1st round draft picks for a 1st overall. And Nashville has been looking for a franchise forward for a while. Plus, Nashville is great at pounding out D.

If I'm Nashville Management, **** Weber, he can go to hell right now.
yeah i'm sure nyi would love those late 1st round picks in exchange for their franchise player

pahlsson is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:07 AM
  #271
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 12,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Ryan Getzlaf View Post
I was pretty sure a team doctor can't clear a player for concussion related things, but maybe that's football.

And if there's anyone who could afford a costly legal battle, it's Pronger.
Let's assume Pronger isn't in bad shape for a minute (he clearly is).

What does he get out of it? He gets paid whether he plays or not. And even if he wins, he also still gets paid, but that doesn't guarantee him a roster spot.

billybudd is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:07 AM
  #272
Krishna
Registered User
 
Krishna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Canada
Posts: 82,158
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewGuy View Post
Doubt it. The contracts depend on the rules in the CBA or there wouldn't have been a rollback last CBA.
Yes, the CBA had a clause in it to rollback all salaries by something like 24% to help the league as a whole. I doubr there will be a clause put in to only help teams who get offer sheeted

Krishna is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:08 AM
  #273
ZDH
Registered User
 
ZDH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,378
vCash: 500
Yep, but someone was going to make a move for Giroux if it got to that point regardless of anything Holmgren has done in the past....hes just too good not to, bridges be damned

ZDH is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:08 AM
  #274
danishh
Dat Stache
 
danishh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: mtl/ott/somewhere
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,710
vCash: 500
couple of things before I go to bed.

1. thank you "blue blooded" for explaining the 50% rule to everyone.

2. Everyone should also remember the kovalchuk rule... the 36-40 yo years have to have a 1M minimum salary.

3. Philly doesnt have cap problems. With pronger on the books, plus 8M to weber, they are at the cap with 2.7M in bonuses that can roll over and then 4.9M in pronger LTIR. They only have voracek left to sign. If the new cap changes that, i'm sure there will be some mechanism included to help teams get under it, as the flyers would not be the only team in trouble.

4. Nashville is a budget team, yes, but not a floor team. Last year they spent 52M and had 12M cap space. The year before they spent 51M and had 8.5M cap space. 2 years ago they spent 44M and had 12.5M cap space. Nashville currently has ~38M commited in salary next year, they can spend 14M on weber easily, probably more because they raised ticket prices for this year.

5. People should read up on the chris gratton offersheet. I personally (and believe that come tomorrow, many hockey writers as well) believe that that is the 2nd most likely scenario (after the preds simply matching and keeping him). I'd say 60% Preds match and keep him forever. 25% Chris Gratton situation. 10% Preds match and trade him during year 2/3 of the deal. 5% Preds let him go for 4 firsts.


Last edited by danishh: 07-19-2012 at 04:14 AM.
danishh is offline  
Old
07-19-2012, 04:09 AM
  #275
The Zetterberg Era
Moderator
Nyquist Explosion!
 
The Zetterberg Era's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 19,824
vCash: 500
I don't understand the but what if he demands a trade after the first year stuff they tell him no. In fact once they sign him this pander to Weber stuff can stop as well. They have him and Rinne, they could shed salary at that point while those two players can do nothing but glare at them.

If he retires or sits out because of it they can go back after that bonus, especially the second one. There is actually a lot of precedent for those being forced back over in arbitration courts, see some of the famous NFL players this has happened to. He is stuck in Nashville until they want to move him at that point. After paying him 26 million they won't feel that way soon. Regardless of how much pouting he does, he can be told to pound sand at that point.

The Zetterberg Era is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:05 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.