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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part 127 (Vierzehn): Offer Sheet Match Edition

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Old
07-19-2012, 01:16 PM
  #301
RobMT88
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I cant be the only one worried about Weber going up against Sid and Geno.

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07-19-2012, 01:16 PM
  #302
TravisUlrich
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So basically we've gone from hating Holmgren for signing Weber to offer sheet to daydreaming about what offer sheets we could offer?

That's why I love this board!

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07-19-2012, 01:16 PM
  #303
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Meh, I do not buy that for a moment.

The chances are about 90/10 that Nashville matches and everyone, including Weber, knows that. If he wanted out he would not have signed an offer sheet that basically would keep him in Nashville his entire career. He would have played out his contract to UFA status and left. It makes no sense to read into this that he wants out.
I agree Jaded, with one added question:

What happens if, about 10 seconds after Nashville matches, the Pens give Colin Wilson an offer sheet with front loaded money?

Yeah, Shero wouldn't do it to Poile. ****, he wouldn't even tell Poile he'll do it if Poile won't trade him to the Pens. BUT, somebody may.

If/when they match, Nashville will be so cash strapped that some team signing Wilson to a 3-4M a year offer sheet (don't know if he's worth, just speaking hypothetically), like say 5 yrs, 18M with 10M in the first 12.1 months . . . that might be a killer after matching on Weber, no?

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07-19-2012, 01:16 PM
  #304
Justin Sickways
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
Meh, I do not buy that for a moment.

The chances are about 90/10 that Nashville matches and everyone, including Weber, knows that. If he wanted out he would not have signed an offer sheet that basically would keep him in Nashville his entire career. He would have played out his contract to UFA status and left. It makes no sense to read into this that he wants out.
How would you explain, then, that the Preds are fielding trade offers for him? We haven't heard that he definitely wants to stay. If he did want to stay they wouldn't want to trade him

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07-19-2012, 01:16 PM
  #305
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They might still be able to pull off a trade with Philly, they just wouldn't get that AND the 4 first-rounders.
but he cant be traded once an offer sheet is signed, right?

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07-19-2012, 01:17 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Justin Sickways View Post
If you go on the reasonable assumption that Weber doesn't want to stay long term in Nashville (hence the Preds fielding trade offers), they would look to trade him as soon as that one year period is over.
Who says that's a reasonable assumption, because it's not.

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07-19-2012, 01:18 PM
  #307
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Can't see any reason why Nashville wouldn't match that. 4 first round picks from a team who will be perennial play-off contenders isn't worth it.

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07-19-2012, 01:19 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Homer didn't like that the Preds wanted a high quality package back for the best blueliner in the league, so he signs Weber to an offer sheet with a ridiculous poison pill, forcing the Preds to either match the offer or deal exclusively with the Flyers for a trade.

That is ruthless and shrewd, but expected from such a despicable org.

Basically they are taking advantage of a small market team that already got ****ed by Radulov and Suter, now the Flyers are like vultures circling...

Anything to win I guess...

Feel so badly or the Preds and their fans.
Yes, but Poile will match. It will cost the Preds more, meaning less $$$ for the Suter replacement from what Poile budgeted going into the summer for Weber and Suter. BUT, whether it's 1 year or 8 years, Poile now can get the most insane return imaginable for Weber, and he won't be restricted in terms of where he can trade him.

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07-19-2012, 01:19 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by TravisUlrich View Post
So basically we've gone from hating Holmgren for signing Weber to offer sheet to daydreaming about what offer sheets we could offer?

That's why I love this board!
Oh grow up, it's a message board.

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07-19-2012, 01:21 PM
  #310
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Does anyone think that Holmgren and Philadelphia will have earnt a black mark from other Gm's for that and be vulnerable in the future?

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07-19-2012, 01:21 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Who says that's a reasonable assumption, because it's not.
Why aren't the Preds and Weber talking long term deal then? Why would they even consider trading him?

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07-19-2012, 01:22 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Homer didn't like that the Preds wanted a high quality package back for the best blueliner in the league, so he signs Weber to an offer sheet with a ridiculous poison pill, forcing the Preds to either match the offer or deal exclusively with the Flyers for a trade.

That is ruthless and shrewd, but expected from such a despicable org.

Basically they are taking advantage of a small market team that already got ****ed by Radulov and Suter, now the Flyers are like vultures circling...

Anything to win I guess...

Feel so badly or the Preds and their fans.
Yep - you hit the nail on the head.

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07-19-2012, 01:22 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Does anyone think that Holmgren and Philadelphia will have earnt a black mark from other Gm's for that and be vulnerable in the future?
No, I don't . . . the only 'black mark' is that, if I'm a high profile free agent, I'm demanding a full NMC from Homer.

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07-19-2012, 01:22 PM
  #314
Chili Goal
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Um...they need a top six forward and they/he won't come cheap.

Everyone needs to look at the big picture, it's easy to just say a minor move and all is fixed. Look at who's coming up for UFA/RFA and the fact they won't have 1sts to help gain those assets to fill those spots for 4 years that more moves "calculated ones" need done.
I think Philly's potential cap problems are somewhat overstated. As it stands, the Weber signing would put them right at the cap. But with Pronger almost assuredly heading to LTIR, that will free up some $5m in space, no? Money that can be used to pay for Voracek and complete their lineup.

Next offseason, they'll have a 38 yo Timmonen coming off the books and freeing up $6.3m, which will give them a pool of about $12.5m to pay for Hartnell (UFA), Simmonds (RFA), and Kimmo's replacement or retirement deal. Giroux isn't even an RFA for two years. maybe they'll run into problems then when B. Schenn and Couturier also hit, but half the roster will likely have been turned over by that point.

We can make all the Holmgren jokes we like, but in a span of 12 months he'll potentially have acquired Weber, Bryz, both Schenns, Couturier, Simmonds, & Voracek in exchange for Richards, Carter, JVR, some draft picks and cap space. the Bryz contract aside, that is fantastic asset mgmt.

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07-19-2012, 01:22 PM
  #315
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How long does Nashville have to match the offer? (sorry if this has already been mentioned)

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07-19-2012, 01:23 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Yes, but Poile will match. It will cost the Preds more, meaning less $$$ for the Suter replacement from what Poile budgeted going into the summer for Weber and Suter. BUT, whether it's 1 year or 8 years, Poile now can get the most insane return imaginable for Weber, and he won't be restricted in terms of where he can trade him.
There's no way Poile doesn't match. I literally can't see it happening, or they may as well just fold and move the team to Quebec.

It's a dick move by a classless organization, and all i can hope from this is that with the way they got rid of players almost immediately after "committing" to them long term, and then pulling a move like this that's widely frowned upon, maybe teams AND other FA's won't want to play ball with them.

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07-19-2012, 01:23 PM
  #317
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Yes, but Poile will match. It will cost the Preds more, meaning less $$$ for the Suter replacement from what Poile budgeted going into the summer for Weber and Suter. BUT, whether it's 1 year or 8 years, Poile now can get the most insane return imaginable for Weber, and he won't be restricted in terms of where he can trade him.
I assume they will match, but won't be surprised if the front loaded term is too much and they simply negotiate a trade with Philly.

Holmgren essentially used Snider's deep pockets to hold Weber's rights hostage.

Whatever happened to bargaining in good faith?

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07-19-2012, 01:24 PM
  #318
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How long does Nashville have to match the offer? (sorry if this has already been mentioned)
A week.

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07-19-2012, 01:24 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Justin Sickways View Post
Why aren't the Preds and Weber talking long term deal then? Why would they even consider trading him?
They are, but Poile was focusing on a 7 year deal, and Weber wanted a lifetime deal. Weber also naturally wanted monster up front money, money that Nashville, while they might give it with a gun to their head, wasn't giving voluntarily. So, since Poile couldn't be assured that Weber would sign, he was talking trade. Philly knew they weren't getting him and that New York might, so they made the offer sheet. If Nashville doesn't match, then Weber goes to a team he wants for the money he wants. If Nashville matches, Weber gets the deal he wanted to stay all along (and you'll hear Weber saying how happy he is to be a Predator for life in that case).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I assume they will match, but won't be surprised if the front loaded term is too much and they simply negotiate a trade with Philly.

Holmgren essentially used Snider's deep pockets to hold Weber's rights hostage.

Whatever happened to bargaining in good faith?
Philly threw those rules right outside the window with Richards and Carter deals. Shrewd? Absolutely. Right? No. Same thing here with the Weber offer.

I just want to know this: If/when Nashville matches, what team offers Colin Wilson a 6 year, 22M deal with say 12M payable in the first 366 days? Nashville couldn't match that after matching Weber.

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07-19-2012, 01:25 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Justin Sickways View Post
If you go on the reasonable assumption that Weber doesn't want to stay long term in Nashville (hence the Preds fielding trade offers), they would look to trade him as soon as that one year period is over.
How is it a reasonable assumption the Weber doesn't want to stay long term with Nashville? He knew by signing that offer sheet the Preds had the option to match ... and Poile has stated that he would do just that. Sounds more like Weber is just looking for a bigger pay-day and longer term than he was being offered.

Nashville took Weber to arbitration last time, not the other way around. And while a team can only request arbitration once, the player can do it as often as he likes ... something that Weber hasn't done at all. If he seriously wanted out of Nashville, taking the team to arbitration would have been the way to go ... a one year deal that would take him to UFA status.

Seems more like he wants to cash in before the current CBA expires ... and Philly was offering him the most money and term ... including a nice fat paycheck whether there is a 2012-2013 season or not.

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07-19-2012, 01:25 PM
  #321
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Yep - you hit the nail on the head.
Yet you are ****ing about Shero not doing the same thing in this "arms race". Interesting.

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07-19-2012, 01:27 PM
  #322
Justin Sickways
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I assume they will match, but won't be surprised if the front loaded term is too much and they simply negotiate a trade with Philly.

Holmgren essentially used Snider's deep pockets to hold Weber's rights hostage.

Whatever happened to bargaining in good faith?
This.

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07-19-2012, 01:27 PM
  #323
Le Magnifique 66
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Does anyone think that Holmgren and Philadelphia will have earnt a black mark from other Gm's for that and be vulnerable in the future?
I doubt it. Personally I think general managers aren't doing it because of Burke crying a few years ago. This should be done more often IMO

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07-19-2012, 01:27 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Does anyone think that Holmgren and Philadelphia will have earnt a black mark from other Gm's for that and be vulnerable in the future?
Yes. Remember Burke hammering Lowe in 2007 for the Penner and Vanek offer sheets? He was very vocal about it, but behind the scenes you know a lot of GMs were pissed, they just did not talk about it. As I said, there is a reason these have been so rare. It radically reduces the meaning of RFA contracts, and you almost have to pay UFA contract prices. That pisses every GM off.

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07-19-2012, 01:27 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Letang fan 58 View Post
Ducks got a 1st 2nd 3rd which they worked into Justin Schultz.......who left the team for nothing, Nicholas Dechamps...who?, Eric O'Dell....who?, and Kirill Petrov who also has done nothing.
Trade still worked out fine for the Oilers.
No we didn't...

We got the 12th pick which became Tyler Myers, Justin Schultz and a 3rd which became Petrov. The third was traded to NYI for MAB. The first was traded to move down which added Gardiner+. Since the point is what Edmonton gave up, they gave up Myers, the rights to Schultz and the rights to MAB.

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