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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part 127 (Vierzehn): Offer Sheet Match Edition

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07-19-2012, 01:48 PM
  #351
duffy9748
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Originally Posted by Chili Goal 7 View Post
I think Philly's potential cap problems are somewhat overstated. As it stands, the Weber signing would put them right at the cap. But with Pronger almost assuredly heading to LTIR, that will free up some $5m in space, no? Money that can be used to pay for Voracek and complete their lineup.

Next offseason, they'll have a 38 yo Timmonen coming off the books and freeing up $6.3m, which will give them a pool of about $12.5m to pay for Hartnell (UFA), Simmonds (RFA), and Kimmo's replacement or retirement deal. Giroux isn't even an RFA for two years. maybe they'll run into problems then when B. Schenn and Couturier also hit, but half the roster will likely have been turned over by that point.

We can make all the Holmgren jokes we like, but in a span of 12 months he'll potentially have acquired Weber, Bryz, both Schenns, Couturier, Simmonds, & Voracek in exchange for Richards, Carter, JVR, some draft picks and cap space. the Bryz contract aside, that is fantastic asset mgmt.
This. He may not be the best GM working with the salary cap but the man knows how to acquire talent. If the Weber deal goes through, they changed an old, beaten up defense to this:

Weber(26)-Coburn(26)
Schenn(22)-Meszaros(25)
Grossman(29)-Timonen(36)

Not to mention how young their forward core is with Giroux,Schenn,Couturier,Voracek,Simmonds,Read,Well wood at an average age of 21.8.

His only misstep so far is Bryz and he is capable of bounce back year in front of that defense.

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Old
07-19-2012, 01:48 PM
  #352
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Is Shero away on vacation or something? Haven't heard a thing out of the Pens or even their ****** beat writers in quite a while. Really surprised he's done nothing at this point of the summer. Now we see Weber get offer sheeted from the Flyers when the Preds couldnt work out a deal with several teams.....but Dreger didnt even mention the Pens as one of the teams trying to trade for him?? Here's hoping he comes out of his coma soon.

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07-19-2012, 01:49 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Even though everyone wants to be polarizing and binary..... I really don't have a strong opinion either way.

On one hand: what Holmgren did was pretty ruthless and he was certainly kicking a franchise when they were down.

On the the other hand: you gotta admire that he is willing to go outside of the box to make the best hockey team possible. The way the rules are written, there is nothing wrong with what he did.

I wish our GM was a little more prone to taking risks like that, but instead it seems like he wants to focus on building prospects and the depth chart.

It's frustrating for me that we have the 2 best players in the world, yet we have been bounced from the playoffs for 3 years in a row. At the same time, it seems like our GM is content to be conservative and make small moves, rather than making a big splash (i.e. trading one of our 1st rounders for a roster player that helps us win now).
How do you know he's not trying to do that? What late 1st rounder is going to get a top 6 winger or top 4 D we need? I'd love to hear.

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07-19-2012, 01:50 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Letang fan 58 View Post
Is Shero away on vacation or something? Haven't heard a thing out of the Pens or even their ****** beat writers in quite a while. Really surprised he's done nothing at this point of the summer. Now we see Weber get offer sheeted from the Flyers when the Preds couldnt work out a deal with several teams.....but Dreger didnt even mention the Pens as one of the teams trying to trade for him??
Pittsburgh does not have the assets to acquire Weber. Poile was asking for Schenn+Couturier+. Pittsburgh has a bunch of defense prospects who haven't shown anything close to what they have. Not to mention Schenn was a top 5 pick and Couturier should have been a top 5 pick.

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07-19-2012, 01:51 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
I wish our GM was a little more prone to taking risks like that, but instead it seems like he wants to focus on building prospects and the depth chart.

It's frustrating for me that we have the 2 best players in the world, yet we have been bounced from the playoffs for 3 years in a row. At the same time, it seems like our GM is content to be conservative and make small moves, rather than making a big splash (i.e. trading one of our 1st rounders for a roster player that helps us win now).
cassius, since you either don't read replies to your posts or you pick and choose - I replied to your similar post in the other thread with this:

Eh, he's not Holmer but he's done some big things. He went hard after Hossa and Parise. Reportedly Suter as well. Was proactive in trying to get Hamhuis, then signed the next two biggest names (Z and Martin) after that didn't work out. Goligoski for Neal, Whitney for Kunitz, the Staal trade.

He's very thorough and patient but he's not afraid to go big.

So he tries to get Parise and Suter but they want to play in their hometown, and now all Shero wants to do is makes small moves and be conservative.

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07-19-2012, 01:51 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Cap hit wouldn't make it possible I think.
Cap hit counts whether he does or not. He is signed to a multi-year deal after 35.

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07-19-2012, 01:51 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Letang fan 58 View Post
Is Shero away on vacation or something? Haven't heard a thing out of the Pens or even their ****** beat writers in quite a while. Really surprised he's done nothing at this point of the summer. Now we see Weber get offer sheeted from the Flyers when the Preds couldnt work out a deal with several teams.....but Dreger didnt even mention the Pens as one of the teams trying to trade for him?? Here's hoping he comes out of his coma soon.
The less said the better really. Pointless giving out inane statements about who were chasing. Rather he just got with it.

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07-19-2012, 01:54 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
At the same time didn't Weber want a 3-4 year deal last year and they decided to bring him to arbitration? Sorry but I don't really feel bad for them and they did sign Rinne 7x7. It sucks but it's too bad for them
I'm not an expert on the Preds, but from what I recall Weber wanted a ******** to sign a short term deal. The Preds were also trying to sign Suter as well. They did what they had to with Weber considering the circumstances and their finances.

This to me is a big market club kicking a small market club while they are down and taking advantage of them.

I understand there are ppl who will say **** them, tough luck. But I still remember how the Pens org got poached by the big market clubs when they were struggling financially.

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07-19-2012, 01:56 PM
  #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
The less said the better really. Pointless giving out inane statements about who were chasing. Rather he just got with it.
just going with it doesnt seem to be working all that well. would be nice to at least know hes trying to get something done.

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07-19-2012, 01:58 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Cap hit wouldn't make it possible I think.
Meszaros (and possibly Timonen) would be shipped out to make room.

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07-19-2012, 01:59 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
Pittsburgh does not have the assets to acquire Weber. Poile was asking for Schenn+Couturier+. Pittsburgh has a bunch of defense prospects who haven't shown anything close to what they have. Not to mention Schenn was a top 5 pick and Couturier should have been a top 5 pick.
Well as it stands the Preds didnt get Coutuerier or Schenn and are getting either 4 late first round picks or re signing him. That's something Shero could have just as easily made happen as the Flyers did. I'm sure the Pens could have put together something for an offer whether it had to be several 1st round picks + prospects or whatnot.

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07-19-2012, 01:59 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Blitzburgh87 View Post
What if pronger came back? Could you imagine
pronger-Weber..................
It's very likely this was done, at least in part, BECAUSE Pronger is not coming back. I don't think some people here appreciate how bad his situation was / is. I haven't heard any updates in a while but all through the season there was literally no progress and he was having a hard time standing up for modest periods of time, still had nausea and all kinds of bad symptoms. In short, he was a mess even months after the hit.

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07-19-2012, 02:00 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Bjindaho View Post
Cap hit counts whether he does or not. He is signed to a multi-year deal after 35.
Cap hit only counts if he officially retires. Not if they bury him in the LTIR list.

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07-19-2012, 02:02 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Hikaru Kitsune View Post
Cap hit only counts if he officially retires. Not if they bury him in the LTIR list.
Pretty sure cap hit counts during the summer whether on LTIR during the season or not. You can go over the cap by up to 10% in the summer though, and LTIR would kick in once the season starts.

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07-19-2012, 02:05 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by WVP View Post
cassius, since you either don't read replies to your posts or you pick and choose - I replied to your similar post in the other thread with this:

Eh, he's not Holmer but he's done some big things. He went hard after Hossa and Parise. Reportedly Suter as well. Was proactive in trying to get Hamhuis, then signed the next two biggest names (Z and Martin) after that didn't work out. Goligoski for Neal, Whitney for Kunitz, the Staal trade.

He's very thorough and patient but he's not afraid to go big.

So he tries to get Parise and Suter but they want to play in their hometown, and now all Shero wants to do is makes small moves and be conservative.
I didn't bother replying because a lot of that is irrelavent. Whats in the past is in the past and there is no sense on dwelling on it. I could care less about what happened in the past or if he tried his hardest to sign Parise. All of that is really irrelevant at this point because it has no bearing on the present situation.

My question is: what moves are on the horizon that will make this team better *now*?

I see this as a very pivotal off-season for this team coming off 3 disappointing post-season. I expected some moves and so far it's been a very disappointing off-season in terms of making hockey moves that improve this team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcanalz View Post
How do you know he's not trying to do that? What late 1st rounder is going to get a top 6 winger or top 4 D we need? I'd love to hear.
I would think that an #8th overall pick and some prospects would be able to land us a decent roster player.

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07-19-2012, 02:07 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Even though everyone wants to be polarizing and binary..... I really don't have a strong opinion either way.

On one hand: what Holmgren did was pretty ruthless and he was certainly kicking a franchise when they were down.

On the the other hand: you gotta admire that he is willing to go outside of the box to make the best hockey team possible. The way the rules are written, there is nothing wrong with what he did.

I wish our GM was a little more prone to taking risks like that, but instead it seems like he wants to focus on building prospects and the depth chart.

It's frustrating for me that we have the 2 best players in the world, yet we have been bounced from the playoffs for 3 years in a row. At the same time, it seems like our GM is content to be conservative and make small moves, rather than making a big splash (i.e. trading one of our 1st rounders for a roster player that helps us win now).
I agree with you on this post for sure. I didn't mean to pin you in a corner. I don't really like the **** that Holmgren pulls and overall I admire the class that Shero operates under. However, as a fan, there is something exciting about being aggressive and bold in trying to make your team better. I definitely get that.

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07-19-2012, 02:09 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Hikaru Kitsune View Post
Meszaros (and possibly Timonen) would be shipped out to make room.
Timonen retires next year. His contract is up.

Mez will most likely be on the move.

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07-19-2012, 02:20 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
It's very likely this was done, at least in part, BECAUSE Pronger is not coming back. I don't think some people here appreciate how bad his situation was / is. I haven't heard any updates in a while but all through the season there was literally no progress and he was having a hard time standing up for modest periods of time, still had nausea and all kinds of bad symptoms. In short, he was a mess even months after the hit.
Such a shame for a great defenseman

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07-19-2012, 02:21 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
I'm not an expert on the Preds, but from what I recall Weber wanted a ******** to sign a short term deal. The Preds were also trying to sign Suter as well. They did what they had to with Weber considering the circumstances and their finances.

This to me is a big market club kicking a small market club while they are down and taking advantage of them.

I understand there are ppl who will say **** them, tough luck. But I still remember how the Pens org got poached by the big market clubs when they were struggling financially.
Yeah, I feel like that's what they're doing too. It pisses me off for Nashville. CBA is supposed to stop deep pocketed teams from fleecing small market teams like this.

Anyways, let's get the Philly hate on:

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/...ted_sandwiches

(pretend number 5 doesn't exist)

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07-19-2012, 02:22 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by cassius
I didn't bother replying because a lot of that is irrelavent. Whats in the past is in the past and there is no sense on dwelling on it. I could care less about what happened in the past or if he tried his hardest to sign Parise. All of that is really irrelevant at this point because it has no bearing on the present situation.
Irrelevant? You said: "At the same time, it seems like our GM is content to be conservative and make small moves, rather than making a big splash" and I showed you why that was incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius
My question is: what moves are on the horizon that will make this team better *now*?
How the **** would we know?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius
I see this as a very pivotal off-season for this team coming off 3 disappointing post-season. I expected some moves and so far it's been a very disappointing off-season in terms of making hockey moves that improve this team.
Yeah, Michalek was moved and he tried to sign the two biggest names out there. Ray's really sat on his ass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cassius
I would think that an #8th overall pick and some prospects would be able to land us a decent roster player.
You're guessing but you have no idea who is actually available and the asking price.

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07-19-2012, 02:26 PM
  #371
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If the guys don't want to be there, how can you blame other teams for poaching?' It seems pretty clear that despite the lip service, niether Suter or Weber was inclined to stay in Nashville.

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07-19-2012, 02:29 PM
  #372
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Those 4 1st rounders are the reason I posted when free agency statred in July that Shero might do something like this to acquire Weber. It is funny though that Shero didn't read the fact that Holmgren just might do something like this after losing out on Suter & Parise like Shero did. Nashville will match and the only questions left is did Holmgren do this out of frustration because of how trade talks went with Nashville over Weber and will Nashville & Poile eventually deal Weber after matching but because of this to anybody but Philadelphia?
Could very possibly be, and i'm sure there will be teams interested despite the contract. I hope Shero has Poile on speed dial

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07-19-2012, 02:31 PM
  #373
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Irrelevant? You said: "At the same time, it seems like our GM is content to be conservative and make small moves, rather than making a big splash" and I showed you why that was incorrect.
Let's see he traded a player who demanded to be traded after rejecting a $60M contract... and traded a player that didn't fit into our system. Neither of those actions are bold at all. They're conservative and reactionary.

Most of his moves in the past have been conservative too. When you have a bunch of defensemen and no wingers, it makes sense to package a d-man for a winger. I don't think any of those trades are particularly bold. Acquiring a few rentals at the deadline is par for the course




How the **** would we know?
Who knows whats on the horizon, but this off-season so far has been an endless bummer. It's frustrating when you see your rivals getting better while we actually got worse.


Yeah, Michalek was moved and he tried to sign the two biggest names out there. Ray's really sat on his ass.
Our roster is worse than it was 2 months ago... so yeah I'd say he did.


You're guessing but you have no idea who is actually available and the asking price.
It's a cop out to say that - I'm sure we could have acquired a decent winger or a top-4 d-man if we paired that #8th overall pick with a few prospects. But like I said before, Shero seems to be the conservative type that would rather stock up on prospects that will help us win in 5 years, rather than taking a risk and exploring what's out there on the trade market.
See my responses

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07-19-2012, 02:40 PM
  #374
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The offense doesn't worry me, really at all. The defense does... A lot.

We'll be fine plugging in Tangradi or something. If we don't land that winger we want, it won't kill us. The fact that our defense was abysmal last season and got worse, regardless of how Michalek played, scares the crap out of me. I hope Despres really is ready to be a monster.

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07-19-2012, 02:45 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by duffy9748 View Post
This. He may not be the best GM working with the salary cap but the man knows how to acquire talent. If the Weber deal goes through, they changed an old, beaten up defense to this:

Weber(26)-Coburn(26)
Schenn(22)-Meszaros(25)
Grossman(29)-Timonen(36)

Not to mention how young their forward core is with Giroux,Schenn,Couturier,Voracek,Simmonds,Read,Well wood at an average age of 21.8.

His only misstep so far is Bryz and he is capable of bounce back year in front of that defense.
Timonen is NOT a 3rd pairing guy.

Also I really hope he plays couple more years, he definitely has those left in him. 2y 6mil total to Pens, c'mon

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