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2012 Free Agency Thread - Part 127 (Vierzehn): Offer Sheet Match Edition

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07-19-2012, 10:57 AM
  #126
KIRK
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Originally Posted by NWTBoonies View Post
He is good, but he is not Bobby Orr. He is an elite D-man in the prime of his career, but he is just a player. It will screw up their depth. They have a number of good players that will have to move for this to work. Depth is far scarier than two or three star players.
Are you insane?

For this year, they can trade Meszaros, and it's problem solved. Their top five will be Weber, Timonen, Coburn, Grossman, and Schenn.

Next year, no problem . . . Simmonds is the only RFA. Hartnell and Timonen are UFA's. I figure they let a 35 year old Timonen walk, which isn't the worst idea in the world.

Year after-- after the 2013-2014 season-- is where it gets tricky. They'll try to move Briere or buy him out (saving 4.5M under the cap by prorating a 2/3 buyout over 2 years) if push comes to shove.

Then again, maybe the next CBA will allow for temporary cap amnesty buyouts of players, like the last CBA.

Until then, if the Flyers get Weber, they're on paper the best team in the East for the next two years.

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07-19-2012, 10:59 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Wes C Addle View Post
The circumstances of the offer are fascinating. There have rarely been many offer sheets given out, but I believe this has to the be the first offer sheet that is of the front loaded cap circumventing nature. And considering the RFA is from a smaller market team that is known to be a bit cash strapped and is being offered by a big market team that is basically offering so large that it likely prohibits them from matching, I have to believe this is a exactly the scenario the NHL wants to get rid of.

It'll be interesting to see if the NHL approves the offer.
god I would love to see Philly get punished for cap circumvention and end up not getting him in the end.

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07-19-2012, 10:59 AM
  #128
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Setogu...no I'm stopping.
And then when he flames out at 17G/12A/29P, we get more threads about how Shero wouldn't know a good forward if one shot a puck at his head.

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07-19-2012, 10:59 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Philadelphia is smart for going all in and being in "win now mode"

The Penguins should be in that mode right now, but Shero seems content to be conservative.
What do you want him to do? He tried everything he could to keep Staal. He made huge offers to Parise and Suter and lost out just like Philly did. He's trying to get Doan and/or Semin. All he's not done is screw over his former boss by offer-sheeting Weber. Hard to blame him for that. Especially since the Pens probably couldn't give a contract structured that way anyway when they have Malkin and Letang to re-sign in the near future.

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07-19-2012, 10:59 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Are you insane?

For this year, they can trade Meszaros, and it's problem solved. Their top five will be Weber, Timonen, Coburn, Grossman, and Schenn.

Next year, no problem . . . Simmonds is the only RFA. Hartnell and Timonen are UFA's. I figure they let a 35 year old Timonen walk, which isn't the worst idea in the world.

Year after-- after the 2013-2014 season-- is where it gets tricky. They'll try to move Briere or buy him out (saving 4.5M under the cap by prorating a 2/3 buyout over 2 years) if push comes to shove.

Then again, maybe the next CBA will allow for temporary cap amnesty buyouts of players, like the last CBA.

Until then, if the Flyers get Weber, they're on paper the best team in the East for the next two years.
For this year they don't have to trade anyone. They would have room leftover.

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07-19-2012, 11:00 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Philadelphia is smart for going all in and being in "win now mode"

The Penguins should be in that mode right now, but Shero seems content to be conservative.
The Penguins should ALWAYS be in that mode. See the top of this page. I just spelled out the Flyers cap thinking. Things COULD get really tricky after the 2013-2014 season for the Flyers. BUT, until then, they're trying to set themselves up as a cup favorite for the next two years.

If you're suggesting that Ray Shero thinks five year competitive plan and Paul Holmgren thinks in terms of two or three years AND if you're suggesting that any team with Sid and Geno should think more immediate term and not worry as much about how things COULD get really tricky in three years, then I agree.

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07-19-2012, 11:02 AM
  #132
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Letang and Geno are huge signings on the horizon, CBA uncertain. Shero is not going to give anyone other than Crosby a monster contract right now, in this situation.

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07-19-2012, 11:03 AM
  #133
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For this year they don't have to trade anyone. They would have room leftover.
Pronger? Forgot him. Yeah, they're problems aren't that bad. They're fine for this year. Fine for next year. Even 2013-2014 won't be an issue. And, if they get temporary cap amnesty for buyouts in the next deal and then buyout Briere, they're free agency players again.

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07-19-2012, 11:03 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
The Penguins should ALWAYS be in that mode. See the top of this page. I just spelled out the Flyers cap thinking. Things COULD get really tricky after the 2013-2014 season for the Flyers. BUT, until then, they're trying to set themselves up as a cup favorite for the next two years.

If you're suggesting that Ray Shero thinks five year competitive plan and Paul Holmgren thinks in terms of two or three years AND if you're suggesting that any team with Sid and Geno should think more immediate term and not worry as much about how things COULD get really tricky in three years, then I agree.
We have the 2 best players in the world, a top 10 d-man, and a upper tier goalie... yet we've been bounced out of the playoffs for 3 years in a row (2 times in the 1st round).

You would think the pressure to win now would be more palpable than ever. Not the case.

It's puzzling that we actually got worse this off-season.

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07-19-2012, 11:03 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Philadelphia is smart for going all in and being in "win now mode"

The Penguins should be in that mode right now, but Shero seems content to be conservative.
We just dumped Michalek to go after Parise and Suter. After trading for Vokoun's rights and trading Staal.

What the **** are you talking about?

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07-19-2012, 11:04 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
We just dumped Michalek to go after Parise and Suter. After trading for Vokoun's rights and trading Staal.

What the **** are you talking about?
Going after Parise and actually snaring him are two different things. The simple fact is that we're a contending team with a lot of pressure to win and we actually got worse this off-season.

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07-19-2012, 11:04 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Letang and Geno are huge signings on the horizon, CBA uncertain. Shero is not going to give anyone other than Crosby a monster contract right now, in this situation.
and certainly not by burning a bridge with one of his friends with a move that probably does nothing but force the other team to spend more than they wanted.

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07-19-2012, 11:04 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Pronger? Forgot him. Yeah, they're problems aren't that bad. They're fine for this year. Fine for next year. Even 2013-2014 won't be an issue. And, if they get temporary cap amnesty for buyouts in the next deal and then buyout Briere, they're free agency players again.
Pronger will be on LTIR. I was just saying that if your "worst case scenario" includes Chris Pronger coming back to play forcing you to trade away Meszaros, you are in a pretty good spot.

But if Pronger is on LTIR they don't have to do a thing to fit Weber under the cap AND re-sign Voracek.

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07-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Wes C Addle View Post
The circumstances of the offer are fascinating. There have rarely been many offer sheets given out, but I believe this has to the be the first offer sheet that is of the front loaded cap circumventing nature. And considering the RFA is from a smaller market team that is known to be a bit cash strapped and is being offered by a big market team that is basically offering so large that it likely prohibits them from matching, I have to believe this is a exactly the scenario the NHL wants to get rid of.

It'll be interesting to see if the NHL approves the offer.
Agreed. Can Nashville have the NHL look at the offer during their 7 day window to match the offer?

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07-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #140
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If Nashville matches this contract - wait to see everyone turn all the way around in this debate and start saying how stupid Philly is. People need to be patient and see where this goes.

If Nashville matches, do you think NSH will trade with Philly 365 days from now after what just happened? Don't you think Shero/Nashville would have a good conversation about it and how we could replenish their defense + give them picks?

If Nashville agrees to the same contract, Philly is all but out. Let's use our heads here.

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07-19-2012, 11:05 AM
  #141
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I see a lot of people in this thread who are rationalizing Shero's conservative mindset while trying to act like Philly snagging the best defenseman in the league isn't a big deal.

Well guess what? It *is* a big ****ing deal when your rival (who mopped the floor with you in the playoffs last year) gets the best defenseman in the league signed to a long-term contract.

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07-19-2012, 11:06 AM
  #142
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We just dumped Michalek to go after Parise and Suter. After trading for Vokoun's rights and trading Staal.

What the **** are you talking about?
Some people will complain about anything.

Philly offer-sheeted Weber? Shero's fault.

Parise didn't want to come here? Only one guy to blame there.

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07-19-2012, 11:06 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Philly would just trade Meszaros for picks. Problem solved.
Um...they need a top six forward and they/he won't come cheap.

Everyone needs to look at the big picture, it's easy to just say a minor move and all is fixed. Look at who's coming up for UFA/RFA and the fact they won't have 1sts to help gain those assets to fill those spots for 4 years that more moves "calculated ones" need done.

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07-19-2012, 11:07 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
We have the 2 best players in the world, a top 10 d-man, and a upper tier goalie... yet we've been bounced out of the playoffs for 3 years in a row (2 times in the 1st round).

You would think the pressure to win now would be more palpable than ever. Not the case.

It's puzzling that we actually got worse this off-season.
When did the season start? Did I miss it?

We got worse between 2008 and 2009 as well.

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07-19-2012, 11:07 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
We have the 2 best players in the world, a top 10 d-man, and a upper tier goalie... yet we've been bounced out of the playoffs for 3 years in a row (2 times in the 1st round).

You would think the pressure to win now would be more palpable than ever. Not the case.

It's puzzling that we actually got worse this off-season.
I will say, in Shero's defense, that the whole Staal situation forced him to look at things differently. He did go 'all in' for Parise and Suter. He's going 'all in' for Doan. The guys he passed on all weren't worth it, IMO.

I want to see where the Pens sit going into the season before I cast judgment. What he's done this summer with Staal and Michalek, no matter what the initial catalyst was, suggests that he's changing approach for the better at long last.

THAT SAID, I can see why some people here are asking why Shero didn't do exactly what Holmgren did (even if Shero did work for Poile once). ****, I'd have been offering Poile Martin, Orpik, any defensive prospect not named Despres or Morrow, Bennett, etc for Weber.

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07-19-2012, 11:07 AM
  #146
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Nashville statement regarding the sheet:


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07-19-2012, 11:08 AM
  #147
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Going after Parise and actually snaring him are two different things. The simple fact is that we're a contending team with a lot of pressure to win and we actually got worse this off-season.
And that's Shero's fault?

He can't control where UFAs go. Nor can he control Staal's wishes. We got an awesome return for Staal given the circumstances. Sutter replaces Staal defensively. He lands us a longterm linemate for Sid and we alter our D zone coverage, I'm a happy man.

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07-19-2012, 11:09 AM
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanh View Post
Nashville statement regarding the sheet:
Good statement to keep us guessing.

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07-19-2012, 11:09 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Um...they need a top six forward and they/he won't come cheap.

Everyone needs to look at the big picture, it's easy to just say a minor move and all is fixed. Look at who's coming up for UFA/RFA and the fact they won't have 1sts to help gain those assets to fill those spots for 4 years that more moves "calculated ones" need done.
They have the money to re-sign Voracek and, I suspect, will have no problem with Matt Read in the top six. They'll make due.

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07-19-2012, 11:09 AM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Letang and Geno are huge signings on the horizon, CBA uncertain. Shero is not going to give anyone other than Crosby a monster contract right now, in this situation.
He tried to give one to Parise and possibly Suter too, even with those factors. Kind of gives lie to that notion.

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