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NHL Free Agency Thread 7 (Legit Sources ONLY) Shane Doan visiting Montreal (Post 400)

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Old
07-25-2012, 08:34 AM
  #551
bsl
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
This will obviously create some controversy on day 1 of his signing in Montreal. I suggest they should try to kill this right from the start, at the 1st press conference. Doan should read a statement saying something like :
They may have to do something like that, I thought of that too. Basically: "I'm sorry, now can we get on with it?"

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07-25-2012, 08:34 AM
  #552
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
I must of missed the memo that said players made the trades.
While they don't make the trades, they sometimes make the trades mandatory

Not sure it was all about the players in this case though... I think it was more something to do with the "You complain, You're out" policy that was in place last year (which they enforced on Kostitsyn and Cammalleri)

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07-25-2012, 08:35 AM
  #553
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You guys remind me of the 2000 US presidential election.

I'd ask people why they prefered Bush over Gore and they said they liked Bush because they value "character".

In sports, politics, and other endeavors, character is what fanboys talk about when they can't articulate what they really think.

The only reason anybody would want Doan over Semin is ...

His older age?
His inferior goal scoring?
His inferior playmaking?
Where he's born?


Last edited by DAChampion: 07-25-2012 at 08:44 AM.
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07-25-2012, 08:51 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You guys remind me of the 2000 US presidential election.

I'd ask people why they prefered Bush over Gore and they said they liked Bush because they value "character".

In sports, politics, and other endeavors, character is what fanboys talk about when they can't articulate what they really think.

The only reason anybody would want Doan over Semin is ...

His older age?
His inferior goal scoring?
His inferior playmaking?
Where he's born?
There's no "Like" button in HF Boards like FaceBook ?
Semin >> Doan.

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07-25-2012, 08:52 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You guys remind me of the 2000 US presidential election.

I'd ask people why they prefered Bush over Gore and they said they liked Bush because they value "character".

In sports, politics, and other endeavors, character is what fanboys talk about when they can't articulate what they really think.

The only reason anybody would want Doan over Semin is ...

His older age?
His inferior goal scoring?
His inferior playmaking?
Where he's born?
For same contract, i'd prefer Semin
Semin earned 6 million last season while doan 4.5

Semin will likely go to the KHL but who knows
But for the habs, I think doan would be more useful for the habs due of weakness in center.

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07-25-2012, 08:59 AM
  #556
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If we could assume both Doan and Semin would get 2 years, 11M or something along those lines, I'd rather Semin. I don't think I'd want either for longer than two years, though.

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07-25-2012, 09:02 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You guys remind me of the 2000 US presidential election.

I'd ask people why they prefered Bush over Gore and they said they liked Bush because they value "character".

In sports, politics, and other endeavors, character is what fanboys talk about when they can't articulate what they really think.

The only reason anybody would want Doan over Semin is ...

His older age?
His inferior goal scoring?
His inferior playmaking?
Where he's born?
No, a fanboy is someome like you that thinks he's right but yet, does not understand that hockey is a team sport and that teams need strong character players to guide it in the right direction, especially the kids..

Semin over Doan

Wounder why every top team in the league is after Doan, including personnel visits to their cities and nobody is after Semin. Must be us fanboy that does not get it Semin is probably the most skilled player in the history of UFAs not signed after 3 weeks, but it most not be because of certain issues...

Get back to the real world.

Is Semin more skilled, YES. Is he a better player, NO.

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07-25-2012, 09:07 AM
  #558
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
Why not sign Doan to a 4 year 24 mil contract? Then bury Gomez and give the cap hit to Doan for the next 2 years. Ends up being Doan for 2 years on a new cap hit when all is said and done
Perhaps if you were the one paying the bills you would have an answer to 'why not'.


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07-25-2012, 09:08 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
No, a fanboy is someome like you that thinks he's right but yet, does not understand that hockey is a team sport and that teams need strong character players to guide it in the right direction, especially the kids..

Semin over Doan

Wounder why every top team in the league is after Doan, including personnel visits to their cities and nobody is after Semin. Must be us fanboy that does not get it Semin is probably the most skilled player in the history of UFAs not signed after 3 weeks, but it most not be because of certain issues...

Get back to the real world.

Is Semin more skilled, YES. Is he a better player, NO.
I really hope every GM in the league is after Doan.

That guarantees he won't sign here.

By the way look at Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Anaheim...

Character never won a championship. It's all about skill. It's about players like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Chara, Thomas, Bergeron, Kane, Toews, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer, Pronger.

It's not about Chris Kelley, Maxime Talbot, and Samuel Pahlsson.

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07-25-2012, 09:17 AM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
No, a fanboy is someome like you that thinks he's right but yet, does not understand that hockey is a team sport and that teams need strong character players to guide it in the right direction, especially the kids..

Semin over Doan

Wounder why every top team in the league is after Doan, including personnel visits to their cities and nobody is after Semin. Must be us fanboy that does not get it Semin is probably the most skilled player in the history of UFAs not signed after 3 weeks, but it most not be because of certain issues...

Get back to the real world.

Is Semin more skilled, YES. Is he a better player, NO.
How do you know Semin isn't being pursued? Because you didn't hear TVA sport say it?
Maybe Semin did get offers, maybe he is asking way too much. Who knows really. One thing for sure, neither of us do.

Doan over Semin? Why? Because of character? Ok. Does that mean our team would be better with Doan over Semin? No.

We have plenty of character guys up front. Cole, DD, Eller, Plek, Gio, MaxPac, and now on the bottom lines with Amrstrong, Prust, Moen, White. We got guys that have character and give it their all. Matter of fact, every player on our team seems to be hard workers except Gomez, Kaberle and Bourque (and that's by reputation).

What we are majorly lacking is pure goal scoring and raw talent. We have nobody that can stick handle through a defender, Semin can. We need that more so than character right now.
I wouldn't mind either player, but Semin fits our needs a lot more. It all comes down to what the contracts are.

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07-25-2012, 09:18 AM
  #561
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Originally Posted by Madevilz View Post
oh lulz, he is visiting MTL to increase his value la Shanahan
If I remember correctly, Shanahan was perfectly ready to come to Montreal. But when he proposed both options to his family, his wife preferred New York.

I can't say for sure that it is the truth, but if one think your family doesn't have a saying on where you sign, he must be very young or egotistic.

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07-25-2012, 09:19 AM
  #562
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"Martin better then Therrien"????
ASK Gill, ASK Spacek, Nope says them.
I think the proof of just who is a better coach will come rather soon at the beginning of the year. I think Therrien will surprise many.He Has learned many thing since the last time he was Habs coach.
I really feel the team will have a new cohesion and it will be noticed that the system has changed.
Gill also made fun of the Therrien signing if we are going to overstate what he said.

Therrien is better than Cunneyworth at least.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How do you know Semin isn't being pursued? Because you didn't hear TVA sport say it?
Maybe Semin did get offers, maybe he is asking way too much. Who knows really. One thing for sure, neither of us do.

Doan over Semin? Why? Because of character? Ok. Does that mean our team would be better with Doan over Semin? No.

We have plenty of character guys up front. Cole, DD, Eller, Plek, Gio, MaxPac, and now on the bottom lines with Amrstrong, Prust, Moen, White. We got guys that have character and give it their all. Matter of fact, every player on our team seems to be hard workers except Gomez, Kaberle and Bourque (and that's by reputation).

What we are majorly lacking is pure goal scoring and raw talent. We have nobody that can stick handle through a defender, Semin can. We need that more so than character right now.
I wouldn't mind either player, but Semin fits our needs a lot more. It all comes down to what the contracts are.
Unfortunately it was Bergevin himself who said Semin isn't an option, not sure it's because of the cliches that "character" and trying very hard can make up for having one of the least skilled teams in the league, or because his agent was demanding too much, but we will probably never know.

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07-25-2012, 09:25 AM
  #563
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I really hope every GM in the league is after Doan.

That guarantees he won't sign here.

By the way look at Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Anaheim...

Character never won a championship. It's all about skill. It's about players like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Chara, Thomas, Bergeron, Kane, Toews, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer, Pronger.

It's not about Chris Kelley, Maxime Talbot, and Samuel Pahlsson.
Do you seriously think that Boston was more skilled than Vancouver? Boston actually won their cup out of character + very good goal tending. And a lot of players on your list also have a whole lot of character...

What you want is skilled guys WITH character. Even if they might be a little less skilled than some other players character sometimes can more than make up for it especially in playoffs. Why did Washington have so much trouble in the playoffs in the last year? It was certainly not a lack of skill. And Semin is certainly part of the answer...

Seriously, I agree that you need both, and it can be good to also have pure skill players with less character as long as they're well surrounded. And I would be happy if we signed Semin. But I would be happy with Doan, because I don't think that character is just an 'intangible' that has meaning only to 'fanboys'...

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07-25-2012, 09:26 AM
  #564
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I really hope every GM in the league is after Doan.

That guarantees he won't sign here.

By the way look at Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Anaheim...

Character never won a championship. It's all about skill. It's about players like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Chara, Thomas, Bergeron, Kane, Toews, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer, Pronger.

It's not about Chris Kelley, Maxime Talbot, and Samuel Pahlsson.
You need both, but the idea that a team of Talbots would be better than a team full of Semins is ridiculous, and that having mediocre puck handlers and passers can be made up for by having guys who work very hard. For all their toughness the Kings and Bruins both had a lot of skill.

I wouldn't mind Doan because we need all the help we can get on the wings right now. But at this point in his career he's a guy who will get you 20 goals compared to Semin's 30, and no amount of character will make up for that. Doan for 2 years at most wouldn't be bad, but the only way he'd ever come to Montreal is by being overpaid.

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07-25-2012, 09:26 AM
  #565
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How do you know Semin isn't being pursued? Because you didn't hear TVA sport say it?
Maybe Semin did get offers, maybe he is asking way too much. Who knows really. One thing for sure, neither of us do.

Doan over Semin? Why? Because of character? Ok. Does that mean our team would be better with Doan over Semin? No.

We have plenty of character guys up front. Cole, DD, Eller, Plek, Gio, MaxPac, and now on the bottom lines with Amrstrong, Prust, Moen, White. We got guys that have character and give it their all. Matter of fact, every player on our team seems to be hard workers except Gomez, Kaberle and Bourque (and that's by reputation).

What we are majorly lacking is pure goal scoring and raw talent. We have nobody that can stick handle through a defender, Semin can. We need that more so than character right now.
I wouldn't mind either player, but Semin fits our needs a lot more. It all comes down to what the contracts are.
In terms of tanking/competing, Doan is the worst of both worlds.

Like Semin, he is good enough to keep us out of the lottery. Unlike Semin, he is not good enough to lift us to bubble team status. However, he may be good enough to discourage Bergevin from selling at the deadline.

The worst case scenario is that we trade away our 2nd rounders at the deadline and still miss the playoffs. That is a very likely scenario with Doan on the wings.

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07-25-2012, 09:29 AM
  #566
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Originally Posted by Patccmoi View Post
Do you seriously think that Boston was more skilled than Vancouver? Boston actually won their cup out of character + very good goal tending. And a lot of players on your list also have a whole lot of character...

What you want is skilled guys WITH character. Even if they might be a little less skilled than some other players character sometimes can more than make up for it especially in playoffs. Why did Washington have so much trouble in the playoffs in the last year? It was certainly not a lack of skill. And Semin is certainly part of the answer...

Seriously, I agree that you need both, and it can be good to also have pure skill players with less character as long as they're well surrounded. And I would be happy if we signed Semin. But I would be happy with Doan, because I don't think that character is just an 'intangible' that has meaning only to 'fanboys'...
Boston was more skilled than Vancouver. They had Tim Thomas, the best player on the ice and the MVP by a mile. Vancouver had Swiss Cheese Luongo. You would need another pair of Sedin twins to make up for that.

Washington did great in the playoffs last year. They lost in the 2nd round in a game 7 to a great team. There's no shame in that.

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07-25-2012, 09:32 AM
  #567
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
In terms of tanking/competing, Doan is the worst of both worlds.

Like Semin, he is good enough to keep us out of the lottery. Unlike Semin, he is not good enough to lift us to bubble team status. However, he may be good enough to discourage Bergevin from selling at the deadline.

The worst case scenario is that we trade away our 2nd rounders at the deadline and still miss the playoffs. That is a very likely scenario with Doan on the wings.
Also Semin, at his age, can be a part of the future if he works out.

Doan is even more short term than Gionta and Cole.

I mean if all it takes is Doan to make us a playoff team we can't be as far off as some think, but this team has a lot of questions that anything more than a year of Doan could do more harm than good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patccmoi View Post
What you want is skilled guys WITH character. Even if they might be a little less skilled than some other players character sometimes can more than make up for it especially in playoffs. Why did Washington have so much trouble in the playoffs in the last year? It was certainly not a lack of skill. And Semin is certainly part of the answer...
Semin was very good against the Bruins IMO although he didn't get big minutes, and he wasn't playing soft.

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07-25-2012, 09:34 AM
  #568
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I really hope every GM in the league is after Doan.

That guarantees he won't sign here.

By the way look at Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Anaheim...

Character never won a championship. It's all about skill. It's about players like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Chara, Thomas, Bergeron, Kane, Toews, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer, Pronger.

It's not about Chris Kelley, Maxime Talbot, and Samuel Pahlsson.
Character has a HUGE part in winning championships. Not character alone but character plus skill.

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07-25-2012, 09:34 AM
  #569
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I really hope every GM in the league is after Doan.

That guarantees he won't sign here.

By the way look at Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Anaheim...

Character never won a championship. It's all about skill. It's about players like Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Chara, Thomas, Bergeron, Kane, Toews, Hossa, Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Niedermeyer, Pronger.

It's not about Chris Kelley, Maxime Talbot, and Samuel Pahlsson.
Thanks for prooving my point

You just named skilled players WITH character, all of them, or most. They are their team leaders. You need your best players to give example, that's how you win.

Last time I checked, Doan was not a 3rd liner like Kelly, Talbot and Pahlsson.

Very bad examples you gave to make your point, which does not exist to start with, so hard to prove.

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07-25-2012, 09:35 AM
  #570
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Also Semin, at his age, can be a part of the future if he works out.

Doan is even more short term than Gionta and Cole.

I mean if all it takes is Doan to make us a playoff team we can't be as far off as some think, but this team has a lot of questions that anything more than a year of Doan could do more harm than good.
Guys like Doan Giona and Cole can be a BIG part of the future by showing the young guys here/on the way the right way to play/act.

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07-25-2012, 09:37 AM
  #571
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Guys like Doan Giona and Cole can be a BIG part of the future by showing the young guys here/on the way the right way to play/act.
We already have mentors in Gionta, Cole, Plekanec; and Markov, Gorges and Boullion for the defense, as good of a leader as Doan is at this point any returns would be diminished.

The only guys with questionable work ethic right now are Bourque and Gomez, and both are better locker room guys than Cammalleri was. Character isn't the problem right now, for all the Gauthier hate the only non-character move he made at the end was trading for Kaberle.

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07-25-2012, 09:44 AM
  #572
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
How do you know Semin isn't being pursued? Because you didn't hear TVA sport say it?
Maybe Semin did get offers, maybe he is asking way too much. Who knows really. One thing for sure, neither of us do.

Doan over Semin? Why? Because of character? Ok. Does that mean our team would be better with Doan over Semin? No.

We have plenty of character guys up front. Cole, DD, Eller, Plek, Gio, MaxPac, and now on the bottom lines with Amrstrong, Prust, Moen, White. We got guys that have character and give it their all. Matter of fact, every player on our team seems to be hard workers except Gomez, Kaberle and Bourque (and that's by reputation).

What we are majorly lacking is pure goal scoring and raw talent. We have nobody that can stick handle through a defender, Semin can. We need that more so than character right now.
I wouldn't mind either player, but Semin fits our needs a lot more. It all comes down to what the contracts are.
If Semin was seriously pursued, we would be earing way more rumors across the league, like we ear from other quality players who are very pursued. TVA Sports, please

The only rumors out there for Semin is that teams are only willing to give 1-2 year contracts, nobody wants to commit long term to this guy, and with good reasons.

A very skilled selfish player is more a distraction than anything, so NO, Habs would not be better with him instead of Doan. The potential extra 10-15 goals we would get from Semin does not offset the rest a guy like Doan would bring. Besides, a player like Semin would be benched or limited ice time all the time by a coach like Therrien.

And for the final time, why is it that Bergevin and is crew admited publicly having no interest for Semin, but they do for Doan. Of course arm chair GMs like you know better than actual experts.

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07-25-2012, 09:48 AM
  #573
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Dead weight will be shed. That doesn't meant we should give up and give ourselves a bad name.

There is, and never will be an excuse for players to tank deliberately going into the season, loser.

No players will ever want to come, no fan will want to shell out the cash, nobody wants to associate with a loser. There is nothing to get there.

Plus, it gives a bad example for our youths. I'd rather see them fight tooth and nail for victory at all time rather than giving them a 1year vacation like you want, loser.
You live in a dream world. The NHL has good teams, and bad teams. We are a bad team.

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I really wouldn't mind seeing Doan. I would be pretty excited actually, but the lineup wouldn't be well balanced. There's not a lot of pure skill in the lineup up front outside of Eller, Plekanec and Desharnais, even at that Plekanec isn't much of a dangler or east-west player. Would like to see more variety at the forward level in terms of player type.
Choosy or what? The 76 Habs tinkered the balance a bit to make the 77 Habs. The 2011 Habs? Balance doesn't come to mind. How about some more good players to start with?

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5mil 1year NTC or 4mil 2years no clauses. Otherwise do not want.
You do not want? With that deal, you will not get.

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First thing Doan would do is laugh in our faces at our third-world country roads and infrastructure. Then he'd break his ankle on a pothole and retire.
And because Glendale Arizona is such a sophisticated, fun city with tons to do.

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07-25-2012, 09:51 AM
  #574
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We too many similar type of players on the team and very little skill, players who can actually deke a d-man and thread the needle on passes. Outside of Plekanec (who is not really that skilled, more of a north-south player/counter attack player) Eller and Desharnais, there really isn't a whole lot of Dangling at the forward position, just a whole bunch of bangers. We need a more balanced forward group.

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07-25-2012, 09:54 AM
  #575
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Choosy or what? The 76 Habs tinkered the balance a bit to make the 77 Habs. The 2011 Habs? Balance doesn't come to mind. How about some more good players to start with?
Cole, Pacioretty, Doan, Bourque, Gionta, Moen, Prust, Armstrong are all similar type of players. None use raw skill to make plays. A lot of these players are straight line players who head for the net or have heavy shots they blast on the counter-rush. There is very little skill. You more good players, then let's start with Semin. He'd instantly would have the most skill on the entire roster. We have enough character guys and enough bangers, how about we get some players who can actually thread the needle or dangle there way past a d-man. Even "big" and "tough" teams like the Bruins and Kings had skilled players (Williams, Kopitar, Krejci, Bergeron, Marchand, Seguin etc etc.)

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