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Bigger impact NHLer in five years

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:36 PM
  #26
OkimLom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Note how everyone votes the guy who's actually been in the NHL as dead last. Based on that kind of potential, my baby nephew projects out higher than all of these guys.
1st Round pick
1st Round Pick
1st Round Pick
2nd Round Pick

Now, Can you match the player with the pick?

Adam was a 2nd round pick who has shown very little improvement in his progression and in fact as shown a little decrease in it.

Couple that with the fact that the other three were all slated to go in 1st round in the first place. Then add that to the general consesus that two of those guys have 1st line ability with the third being a hardnosed 2nd-3rd Line Center who can shut guys down.

Then you're saying 5 years from now. Of course people will put the player that has shown a decrease in ability RIGHT NOW, last. Its not in the present that the OP is asking.

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07-19-2012, 02:44 PM
  #27
haseoke39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkimLom View Post
1st Round pick
1st Round Pick
1st Round Pick
2nd Round Pick

Now, Can you match the player with the pick?

Adam was a 2nd round pick who has shown very little improvement in his progression and in fact as shown a little decrease in it.

Couple that with the fact that the other three were all slated to go in 1st round in the first place. Then add that to the general consesus that two of those guys have 1st line ability with the third being a hardnosed 2nd-3rd Line Center who can shut guys down.

Then you're saying 5 years from now. Of course people will put the player that has shown a decrease in ability RIGHT NOW, last. Its not in the present that the OP is asking.
The bolded is just circular logic. Of course, if you accept that these guys all have 1st line ability, then your argument makes itself.

Adam, however, played a third of the season on our top line. He dropped off. He still had to show more than any of the other three have ever shown just to get to that top line.

I'm mainly just pointing out that a lot of people seem to presume heavily on how good their prospect is going to be before they ever see them play in the NHL. Every first rounder seems to project out to have top line skill. The vast majority of them never show it. The odds are simply against Grigs, Girgs and Armia all simultaneously even making the NHL. So when everybody ranks all three of them a mile ahead of a guy who actually followed through after draft day and made the team, even if he lost his mojo later on in his rookie year, it seems silly. It's like people are ranking them based on whether they most recently exceeded or missed their expectations, without any context of how high those expectations were or what the real odds are of a guy making the next level.

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07-19-2012, 02:49 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
The bolded is just circular logic. Of course, if you accept that these guys all have 1st line ability, then your argument makes itself.

Adam, however, played a third of the season on our top line. He dropped off. He still had to show more than any of the other three have ever shown just to get to that top line.

I'm mainly just pointing out that a lot of people seem to presume heavily on how good their prospect is going to be before they ever see them play in the NHL. Every first rounder seems to project out to have top line skill. The vast majority of them never show it. The odds are simply against Grigs, Girgs and Armia all simultaneously even making the NHL. So when everybody ranks all three of them a mile ahead of a guy who actually followed through after draft day and made the team, even if he lost his mojo later on in his rookie year, it seems silly. It's like people are ranking them based on whether they most recently exceeded or missed their expectations, without any context of how high those expectations were or what the real odds are of a guy making the next level.
Well said.

It will be interesting to see the reactions to any of those 3 hitting a setback or lull in their development. It's goin to happen. Right now it's unblemished potential and exciting futures.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:55 PM
  #29
Imlach a cup
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My first thought looking at the OP was "Why is Adam even in this list?" he may have a successful career but I don't think he's in this teams plans beyond this contract. I think his ceiling is probably Clarke MacArthur. While the other three are first round picks projected to be key cogs in the future.

Or...

Adam has a "will he ever be here again" thread
GGA has a "we're the new core" thread

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07-19-2012, 03:05 PM
  #30
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Grigorenko, Armia, Girgensons, Adam

Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Note how everyone votes the guy who's actually been in the NHL as dead last. Based on that kind of potential, my baby nephew projects out higher than all of these guys.
Your use of the word 'potential' invalidates the criticism. If we're going purely on potential then what's the argument against putting them ahead of Adam?

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:06 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
My first thought looking at the OP was "Why is Adam even in this list?" he may have a successful career but I don't think he's in this teams plans beyond this contract. I think his ceiling is probably Clarke MacArthur. While the other three are first round picks projected to be key cogs in the future.

Or...

Adam has a "will he ever be here again" thread
GGA has a "we're the new core" thread
I think its a little early to conclusively say that. I agree he'd probably be the first young forward prospect to go in a trade this offseason but I still have hopes he can turn it around. I don't think anyone felt that this kid had no place in this team's future when he was tearing it up earlier in the year. I agree he had a big setback last season but from what I've read regarding the prospect camp is that he was looking pretty motivated. If he comes back strong and makes the switch to wing with less defensive responsibilities I could see him having an impact. Having a variety of young talent isn't a bad problem to have. If he's still with the team come October, this year will tell a lot as far as he's concerned.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:12 PM
  #32
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Offensive Upside
Grigorenko
Armia
Adam
Girgensons

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:16 PM
  #33
joshjull
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon View Post
Grigorenko, Armia, Girgensons, Adam



Your use of the word 'potential' invalidates the criticism. If we're going purely on potential then what's the argument against putting them ahead of Adam?
Adam doesn't really belong with them in the first place. I don't mean that as a put down.

- He's a 2nd round pick.

- He has some NHL game we can look at and compare to the expectations he had.

- He hit his first development setback lasts season. So that's taken some bloom off the rose.

By comparison GGA are all viewed through the prism of their high end potential and have no blemishes.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:16 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
The bolded is just circular logic. Of course, if you accept that these guys all have 1st line ability, then your argument makes itself.

Adam, however, played a third of the season on our top line. He dropped off. He still had to show more than any of the other three have ever shown just to get to that top line.

I'm mainly just pointing out that a lot of people seem to presume heavily on how good their prospect is going to be before they ever see them play in the NHL. Every first rounder seems to project out to have top line skill. The vast majority of them never show it. The odds are simply against Grigs, Girgs and Armia all simultaneously even making the NHL. So when everybody ranks all three of them a mile ahead of a guy who actually followed through after draft day and made the team, even if he lost his mojo later on in his rookie year, it seems silly. It's like people are ranking them based on whether they most recently exceeded or missed their expectations, without any context of how high those expectations were or what the real odds are of a guy making the next level.
No it's not. It might not be a strong arguement, but it's not circular logic. I think people like to post that because it sounds smart.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:21 PM
  #35
Silence Of The Plams
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In the minority but I say Girgensons 1st. The way he plays is a little more tough and more work ethic, less of a chance to be soft/lazy. But that's me Grigorenko is realistically probably gonna be more because of his skill level

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:28 PM
  #36
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Grigorenko
Armia
Girgensons
Adam

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07-19-2012, 04:48 PM
  #37
haseoke39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Husko View Post
No it's not. It might not be a strong arguement, but it's not circular logic. I think people like to post that because it sounds smart.
Whatever you want to call it. It's supporting the conclusion you're trying to make by assuming something so significant that it's as good as the conclusion itself.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:53 PM
  #38
thefifagod
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I feel like Grigerenko is a clear 1st and Adam is clearly 4th here. Now I tend to think that having a shutdown center with the potential to put up points like Girgensons does has more of an impact on the game than Armia would as a first line winger. Where you put Armia and Girgs depends on how you view the word impact in my opinion. If you think the higher scorer makes a bigger impact, then it's Armia. If it's a guy's all around value, then I'd put Girgensons second.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:06 PM
  #39
Sabresonthewarpath11
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Girgensons
Grigorenko
Armia
Adam

I feel Girgensons will have more of an impact due to the grit, leadership, and toughness he'll bring that teams desperately need to win Cups. Grigorenko will be a better player, but Girgensons will have more of an impact IMO.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:14 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob View Post
Grigorenko
Armia
Girgensons
Adam
Yep.

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Old
07-19-2012, 05:55 PM
  #41
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Grigorenko (1C)
Girgensons (leadership, shutdown C + offensive potential..Very close between him and Grigs, imo)
Armia (1st line W)
Adam (2nd/3rd line W)

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:37 PM
  #42
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I am as down on Adam as about anyone could be. His performance for tht stretch before he got sent down was putrid - and that's being nice. But reasoning for including him is that he has shown in a small glimpse tht he does have NHL potential. Use that to gauge where he stands amongst the other three, just for fun, and because you're using different metrics. Adam is a guy you've seen.

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Old
07-19-2012, 11:56 PM
  #43
kirby11
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1.Grigs
2a. Girgs 2b. Armia (Girgs potential leadership abilities gives him the edge here)


Adam

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Old
07-21-2012, 12:44 PM
  #44
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Ennis - Grigorenko - Armia in 5 years sounds pretty good.

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Old
07-21-2012, 01:04 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Grigorenko
Girgensons
Armia

(All in a tight little bundle)





Adam
I see it this way as well.

I think Grigorenko is tops. Girgensons and Armia are at 2A and 2B. Pick'em for me. Adam is fourth.

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