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[PHI] Shea Weber Signs Offer Sheet - 14 Yrs - $110 Million - $7.857 Cap Hit (Pt IV)

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:29 PM
  #276
LickTheEnvelope
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiastelmon View Post
There is a lot of wishful BS from Flyer's fans like this above. I'll tell you why they match, because if they don't, the value of your franchise just dropped through the floor. When arranging future financing, which is something this ownership group is very keen to do, the collateral on the financing is the team. Without Weber, the team isn't worth nearly as much, and the financial leverage you can generate with it declines also (as does the terms of such financing). Now, on the other, hand WITH Weber locked up long term, the team is guaranteed to either have the best D man in the NHL, and the flashiest, locked up long term, or get significant return on that D-man. This ADDS value to the franchise, making financing easier to achieve, FA's easier to attract, TV deals easier to negotiate, fans come out, etc.

Whether you think the Preds ownership wants to sell the team and get out of dodge, or if you think they want to make a go of this and try to make money, they need Weber from a financial perspective. Heck, they need him MORE if they want to keep their options open about potentially selling the team.

Stay tuned for 7 days of static while the preds arrange the pressers and marketing campaign built around their new long term franchise D man.
Yup... something they wouldn't have been able to do if not for the offer-sheet.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:30 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
Me neither, people have this perception that you never go after another RFA because it breaks some "gentlemanly rules." Well the reality is, if your team didn't win the Cup, why are you so ******* worried about a few gentlemanly rules...you do whatever it takes to make your team that much better than the other teams. Nothing personal, it's just business.

GMs really need to get rid of this stuck up "gentlemanly" BS.
You can not be a kindly old English gentleman and still have some degree of professional integrity. I personally believe there is a legitimate ethical gripe with strong arming a relatively poor team into giving up it's best player and captain. The contract was structured in precisely the manner in which to take advantage of the fact the Flyers have a whole lot more real money than the Predators do. We have a cap to reduce such disparity, yet it gets more obvious by the day that the big boys still want to wave their wallets around. It's not the offer sheet, it's the structure and the obvious intent behind it that pisses me off.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:30 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
I think Nashville will match.

I also think Weber did this because of the CBA situation likely removing contracts like these in the future. He's smart for forcing a deal now.
This is right on. I bet Webber got serious as soon as he and his agent saw management's proposal last week. We might see some other RFA's jump now as well.

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07-19-2012, 02:31 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by PredsFanFromla View Post
It sucks to be preds fan right now,the preds have lost more players this offseason then any other team.
Well you are looking at two options right now:

1. Weber for 14 years at a reasonable cap hit

-or-

2. 8 first round picks over the next four years.

Could be worse.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:31 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Another variable that we do not know yet. Is Weber asking to leave? Is the contract too expensive? Can Pittsburgh/Vancouver/Detroit/etc. muster up what they are asking for?

There are a lot of variables still left in play. Everyone has this as a slam dunk because Homer made a play. He sure did make one hell of a play at this. Nobody can deny that.

There are just sooooo many variables left in play. We have 6 more days to start debating that... and if Nashville matches we have 365 days to fight about it, eh?
Oh so you think Nashville is going to pay 27 million dollars in 1 calendar year, and then trade Weber for the remaining 13 years and 83 million dollars of that contract?

If they match and keep him, there's next to no way they will trade him after year 1 where they just jeopardized their teams finances long term by paying 27 million.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:31 PM
  #281
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Quote:
Shea Weber obviously does not want to play in Nashville anymore
Quote:
It's almost impossible to make it too difficult to match (the contract)
Darren Dreger on ESPN 97.3

http://973espn.com/darren-dreger-thi...nest-podacast/

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07-19-2012, 02:31 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
Why would Nashville match for a guy who now doesn't want to be there?

Why would Poile's owner allow him to spend their 27 million that they maybe don't have on a guy who doesn't want to be there?

Don't be so naive. Here's the answers:


1) You don't lose an asset like Weber for 4 late round picks when you can spend a few $$$ (which they need to do anyway to hit the salary floor) and then that enables Nashille to get a more reasonable trade return. Getting ZERO in return except future, later round picks that aren't going to play for a few years, if at all, would destroy the franchise, erode the fanbase, and erode the equity value of the franchise, and a whole host of other implications. They CAN afford to macth, and they virtually can't afford NOT to match.


2) Weber is not an idiot, and he knows there is a strong chance Nashville would match. So either he would be content playing in Nashville for the rest of his career, or his going to put on his work boots and a happy face, and play his ass off and have a great season, so that Nashville will be able to trade him to a team that is willing to take on that contract for a Norris calibre defenseman. If Weber pouts, doesn't want to report, or plays like crap next year, it is going to minimize the opportunities for a positive trade outcome after the season when they are eligable to trade him.

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07-19-2012, 02:31 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
How silly of me. It didn't even hit me that the Flyers couldn't of just waited a year and saved themselves all those picks. When you are handing out 14 year deals, I figure a year would be chump change.
Holmgren dealt a 1st for Hartnell and Timonen's rights. Getting his players > crapshoot draft picks (even though they do REALLY REALLY well with their first rounders.....)

I would sacrifice 4 years worth of 1st round picks for a player like Weber. His presence changes the entire complexity of an organization. Is there anything like having a player on the ice who, in addition to being a great defensive player and a great offensive player, can stand up for teammates and intimidate the opposition with his size for 28 minutes a game.

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07-19-2012, 02:31 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiastelmon View Post
There is a lot of wishful BS from Flyer's fans like this above. I'll tell you why they match, because if they don't, the value of your franchise just dropped through the floor. When arranging future financing, which is something this ownership group is very keen to do, the collateral on the financing is the team. Without Weber, the team isn't worth nearly as much, and the financial leverage you can generate with it declines also (as does the terms of such financing). Now, on the other, hand WITH Weber locked up long term, the team is guaranteed to either have the best D man in the NHL, and the flashiest, locked up long term, or get significant return on that D-man. This ADDS value to the franchise, making financing easier to achieve, FA's easier to attract, TV deals easier to negotiate, fans come out, etc.

Whether you think the Preds ownership wants to sell the team and get out of dodge, or if you think they want to make a go of this and try to make money, they need Weber from a financial perspective. Heck, they need him MORE if they want to keep their options open about potentially selling the team.

Stay tuned for 7 days of static while the preds arrange the pressers and marketing campaign built around their new long term franchise D man.
The Predators have had Weber for his entire career and have still struggled to make a profit as recently as this past season, when they lost 7.5 million dollars with a run to round 2 of the playoffs and added gate revenue. They've already lost Suter, meaning that even if the team retains Weber, the value of the team is still already lower than what it was at the time of Nashville's last playoff game.

You're half right that letting Weber go would pretty much be PR suicide for the Preds, at least in the short term. However, keeping him is not going to solve the team's financial problems either. It's just going to buy them time. There is also the fact that about 35 percent of the team's operating revenue from last season ($87 million I believe) will be paid to Weber within the first year of this deal.

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07-19-2012, 02:32 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by PredsFanFromla View Post
It sucks to be preds fan right now,the preds have lost more players this offseason then any other team.
Take solace in this. In an era of small market expansion teams. you guys have sustained a crazy amount of success in Nashville of all places.

A great story woudl have been suter and weber taken discounts to stay with the preds but when suter left i figured weber would probably walk next year. Who am i kidding nothing i say will alleviate the offseason you guys are having.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:33 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by bney7 View Post
Oh so you think Nashville is going to pay 27 million dollars in 1 calendar year, and then trade Weber for the remaining 13 years and 83 million dollars of that contract?

If they match and keep him, there's next to no way they will trade him after year 1 where they just jeopardized their teams finances long term by paying 27 million.
Depends on what is being offered.

The teams finances get hit far worse with 4 late first round picks over 4 years rather than Shae Weber....

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07-19-2012, 02:33 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
This article summarizes the brillance of this move by the flyers and how it handicaps the Preds.


http://deadspin.com/5927347/shea-web...ng-masterpiece
I agree with this quote:

Quote:
Probably a lot of teams kicking themselves today about not having used offer sheets over the last six years.
The Flyers made this look pretty easy.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:34 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Well you are looking at two options right now:

1. Weber for 14 years at a reasonable cap hit

-or-

2. 8 first round picks over the next four years.

Could be worse.
It's bird-in-hand psychology, right? Nashville fans regard Weber as "their" guy, so if he walks they lose something. Flyers fans regard Weber as "not our guy and maybe the Rangers' guy soon" so they feel they have nothing to lose here.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:34 PM
  #289
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http://lastwordonsports.com/2012/07/...-offer-sheets/

cool article.

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Old
07-19-2012, 02:34 PM
  #290
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My initial reaction was that Nashville would match for sure...but now I'm not so certain. That's alot of upfront guaranteed money for a cash-strapped organization to pay one player.

One thing is for certain: Poile is in a tough spot. He needs to weigh the reaction of the ticket paying fanbase vs. the potential fiscal retraints the Predators will tied down with by matching this deal....which could be even worse if there is a lockout this season.

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07-19-2012, 02:35 PM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Don't be so naive. Here's the answers:


1) You don't lose an asset like Weber for 4 late round picks when you can spend a few $$$ (which they need to do anyway to hit the salary floor) and then that enables Nashille to get a more reasonable trade return. Getting ZERO in return except future, later round picks that aren't going to play for a few years, if at all, would destroy the franchise, erode the fanbase, and erode the equity value of the franchise, and a whole host of other implications. They CAN afford to macth, and they virtually can't afford NOT to match.

The trade return will leave as soon as UFA comes knocking. Since Nashville aren't contenders without Suter, they might as well start rebuilding right away.

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07-19-2012, 02:35 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aiastelmon View Post
There is a lot of wishful BS from Flyer's fans like this above. I'll tell you why they match, because if they don't, the value of your franchise just dropped through the floor. When arranging future financing, which is something this ownership group is very keen to do, the collateral on the financing is the team. Without Weber, the team isn't worth nearly as much, and the financial leverage you can generate with it declines also (as does the terms of such financing). Now, on the other, hand WITH Weber locked up long term, the team is guaranteed to either have the best D man in the NHL, and the flashiest, locked up long term, or get significant return on that D-man. This ADDS value to the franchise, making financing easier to achieve, FA's easier to attract, TV deals easier to negotiate, fans come out, etc.

Whether you think the Preds ownership wants to sell the team and get out of dodge, or if you think they want to make a go of this and try to make money, they need Weber from a financial perspective. Heck, they need him MORE if they want to keep their options open about potentially selling the team.

Stay tuned for 7 days of static while the preds arrange the pressers and marketing campaign built around their new long term franchise D man.
I like this post.

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07-19-2012, 02:35 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man View Post
You can not be a kindly old English gentleman and still have some degree of professional integrity. I personally believe there is a legitimate ethical gripe with strong arming a relatively poor team into giving up it's best player and captain. The contract was structured in precisely the manner in which to take advantage of the fact the Flyers have a whole lot more real money than the Predators do. We have a cap to reduce such disparity, yet it gets more obvious by the day that the big boys still want to wave their wallets around. It's not the offer sheet, it's the structure and the obvious intent behind it that pisses me off.
Good for us. The Flyers are a big market team for a reason. I feel no remorse whatsoever.

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07-19-2012, 02:35 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
I agree with this quote:



The Flyers made this look pretty easy.
to be honest, few players are worth 4 firsts. But Weber clearly is and im surprised no team did it last year with stamkos and this year with weber until now.

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07-19-2012, 02:36 PM
  #295
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Your gut feeling, does Nashville match?

Dreger: Yes, I believe they do
http://973espn.com/darren-dreger-thi...nest-podacast/

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07-19-2012, 02:36 PM
  #296
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I see the consensus is that there is no way they will match OR there is no way they will not match.

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07-19-2012, 02:36 PM
  #297
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Weber signing the offer sheet does not mean he wants out of Nashville, it means he wants in on a type of contract that likely won't be available after the new CBA. I think WHEN Nashville matches, he will be happy to play his next 14 yrs with the Predators.

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07-19-2012, 02:36 PM
  #298
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If the preds do match, in one year, the contract will have even higher value. Even if a disgruntled weber has a sub-par year in Nashville, its hard to imagine that a top 3 defenseman in the league with 13 years left on a deal where about a quarter of it has already been paid out would not have massive, massive value. Is it worth 26 million to get those assets, though? Hmm.

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07-19-2012, 02:37 PM
  #299
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These are all cute little defenses you guys got going on but Dreger has said that Weber doesn't want to play for Nashville anymore.

Really doesn't get any easier than that.

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07-19-2012, 02:37 PM
  #300
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After reading more info I have changed my opinion on this offer.

At first i thought it was great for the preds and a slam dunk to sign the offer sheet and lock up Weber for 14 years.

But now I realize the front ended money will be very difficult for the preds to pay.

This was a great move by philly and I HATE the flyers...haha

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