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Anyone else getting tired of Mike Gillis

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:40 PM
  #26
denkiteki
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You better get a 2nd suit.

Seriously winning the cup depends on luck as much as it depends on anything else including roster. LA won the cup 'cause they were getting a lot of bounces in the playoff and won a lot of 1 goal games. Games they lost in the regular season.

Not to mention if you look at recent cup winners, most of them have rosters built from within, not making a ton of "big" moves or big signings (Hossa probably being the exception but note he wasn't the main reason Chicago won, it was due to their depth more than anything else).

When MG took the job, Vancouver weren't getting nearly as many people wanting to come here at discounts or staying with discount. Now Vancouver debately has one of the better cap situations in the league without many bad contracts (at least major ones). He's probably playing it "safe" right now because the cap space is likely needed next year to resign part of the core.

As far as Salo is concern, he was a risk last year. Yeah given the year Salo played, you would say he should have gotten a 2 year deal but what if Salo was out all year and only played 10 games? That's equally possible. Mitchell was also an injury concern when he left and LA threw a lot of money even with the risk. You would be saying MG made a great decision if Mitchell became like Pronger.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:42 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by peacepanda View Post
I don't understand why you have to reply to a thread just to make a point if you do not like it, just leave without saying anything. You are just insulting my intelligence at this point. I am trying to learn there is no need for replies like this.
More learning and correction for you:

When you're new, don't start new threads.

Bump old ones, that already discuss what you'd like to speak about.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
More learning and correction for you:

When you're new, don't start new threads.

Bump old ones, that already discuss what you'd like to speak about.
I did look but not very far, I apologize.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:43 PM
  #29
keslerburrows
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I love Gillis

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:44 PM
  #30
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Im sick of people in our fan base acting like they could be better Gm's because they win at BE A GM on NHL 12.

Im sick of people in our fan base acting like we deserve to win everything (The Cup, Big UFA's..etc)


I don't think enough people realize just HOW bad the Canucks were 12 years ago, 20+ years ago.

This is currently the hay day of our franchise (so far) when it comes to being considered a very good team. Enjoy it! Take it all in because we could easily become a laughing stock again. Don't be mad cause we aren't winning a cup very single year, or are losing out on the majority of big named UFA's.

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07-19-2012, 03:44 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by denkiteki View Post
You better get a 2nd suit.

Seriously winning the cup depends on luck as much as it depends on anything else including roster. LA won the cup 'cause they were getting a lot of bounces in the playoff and won a lot of 1 goal games. Games they lost in the regular season.

Not to mention if you look at recent cup winners, most of them have rosters built from within, not making a ton of "big" moves or big signings (Hossa probably being the exception but note he wasn't the main reason Chicago won, it was due to their depth more than anything else).

When MG took the job, Vancouver weren't getting nearly as many people wanting to come here at discounts or staying with discount. Now Vancouver debately has one of the better cap situations in the league without many bad contracts (at least major ones). He's probably playing it "safe" right now because the cap space is likely needed next year to resign part of the core.

As far as Salo is concern, he was a risk last year. Yeah given the year Salo played, you would say he should have gotten a 2 year deal but what if Salo was out all year and only played 10 games? That's equally possible. Mitchell was also an injury concern when he left and LA threw a lot of money even with the risk. You would be saying MG made a great decision if Mitchell became like Pronger.
Good reply and I agree we are better with Gillis now then we were but I think we are starting to go downhill.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:45 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by peacepanda View Post
I did look but not very far, I apologize.
Don't worry. It's okay. Just remember we could be a fan of any other Canadian team and then things don't look so bleak.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:46 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by peacepanda View Post
I find that very rude. You can correct me and teach me something but going to insults is very disrespectful. We all started at some point did we not?
What...you pop a hole in your flame suit already?

You create a thread like this and you are going to get flamed. And actually, so far, I'd say the flame throwers have been remarkably restrained.

If you'd have taken a look at Gillis tenure, then his overall job performance has been very good. But you'd really have to look at everything he's done since taking the helm...and your post does not indicate you have done that.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:48 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by peacepanda View Post
Flame suit on and ready.
Sounds more like you should put your sad panda suit on.



I'm still on team Gillis. The return on Luongo is certainly going to polarize some people here; unless my biggest fear happens and that the vast majority of us hate the return we get.

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07-19-2012, 03:53 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by peacepanda View Post
I find that very rude. You can correct me and teach me something but going to insults is very disrespectful. We all started at some point did we not?
If you want to be taught something, try making a thread asking for that. Better yet, don't make a thread and just read as much as you can.

Don't start a thread without doing any research, make statements with tenuous logic, state you're ready to be flamed, and then whine about being disrespected when the flames start to come.

If you're going to start controversial threads, learn to expect responses you may not like.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:54 PM
  #36
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It is kind of funny, that all throughout this forum, there are plenty of comments that winning two Presidents Trophies is nothing, that all the awards this team has won don't matter. But then when a thread like this is created all those accolades are worthy of nothing but praise.

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Old
07-19-2012, 03:54 PM
  #37
Henrik To Daniel
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People list his good moves but what about bad moves?

- Trading a 1st and a very good prospect for Keith Ballard who is a bottom pairing dman on our team. That first turned out to be Howden, a guy who Gillis wants in a return for Luongo and Grabner went on to score 30 goals the next season with the Islanders

- Luongo contract. Why give him a 12 year extension when you know you have a good goalie prospect in the system? Now we are trying to trade him and can't get anything good in return for a franchise goalie.

- Letting Ehrhoff go for nothing. This was the Jovo situation all over again. Ehrhoff was our best defenseman. It's not a coincidence that when he arrived to the Canucks our top players broke out offensively. It's also not a coincidence that when he was running our PP, it was #1 in the league. Signing Garrison for 6 years at 4.6M per, yet letting Ehrhoff walk because he wanted something north of 5M is stupid. You didn't have to give him a 10 year deal, but we could have had him for 6 years at 5.5M per (max)

- Horrible drafting. Hodgson was the most highly touted Canucks prospect in a long time and we all know how that ended. Understandable seeing as how Gillis had his hands tied. But what about our other prospects? In his 4 year tenure as Canucks GM not a single one of his draft picks have made the Canucks roster except for Hodgson. Tanev has made the roster, but he was a free agent signing, but I will give him that. How do you expect to contend 5-10 years down the road when you have no great young players?


Last edited by Henrik To Daniel: 07-19-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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Old
07-19-2012, 03:55 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
I agree with the OP. Our window is closing and with a lockout potentially on the way we lose a year where are true contenders. He says he wants to build a team that can contend for years; the Detroit model and I understand that, it is a good strategy. But we don't have a Lidstrom anchoring our defense now do we? We don't have any young players that have potential to be gamebreaking franchise players. Guys like Jensen, Kassian, Tanev will be good players, but they aren't players you can build around. Our core is one of the oldest in the league among contenders.
You have no way of saying this for sure. Scheinder has the potential to be one of the best goalies in the league and is 26. Kassian is 21 and has the potential to be a Todd Bertuzzi type player. There are so many unknowns when saying that we have "no gamebreaking franchise players. The Canucks are doing everything they can to be a successful team now and into the future. Except maybe a couple trades.

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07-19-2012, 04:02 PM
  #39
Henrik To Daniel
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You have no way of saying this for sure. Scheinder has the potential to be one of the best goalies in the league and is 26. Kassian is 21 and has the potential to be a Todd Bertuzzi type player. There are so many unknowns when saying that we have "no gamebreaking franchise players. The Canucks are doing everything they can to be a successful team now and into the future. Except maybe a couple trades.
Schneider COULD be a franchise goalie, but Luongo IS one. Why the hell did we sign Lou to that deal if the organization thought of Schneider so highly?

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:02 PM
  #40
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Would much rather hold on to the contract spots and money for next years potential crop, this is a famine compared to 2013. Of course if GMMG signed to much this year he'd get pissed on next year for it.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:05 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
In his 4 year tenure as Canucks GM not a single one of his draft picks have made the Canucks roster except for Hodgson. Tanev has made the roster, but he was a free agent signing, but I will give him that. How do you expect to contend 5-10 years down the road when you have no great young players?

Look at the Canucks' recent draft successes and see where they were 1-4 years after being drafted:


Kesler (16 point season 4 years after being drafted)

Schneider (AHL backup 4 years after being drafted)

Edler (AHLer 3 years after being drafted)

Grabner (AHL/NHL tweener 4 years after being drafted)

Raymond (still in university 3 years after being drafted)

Bieksa (AHLer 4 years after being drafted)


Only the Sedins made the NHL quickly and even then it took them until their 5th season after being drafted before they were solid top 6 players. You might want to be a little more patient, especially with guys drafted only 1-2 years ago.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:06 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by peacepanda View Post
I don't understand why you have to reply to a thread just to make a point if you do not like it, just leave without saying anything. You are just insulting my intelligence at this point. I am trying to learn there is no need for replies like this.
Alright, you ready?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepanda View Post
We have seen major free agents pass with us not throwing an offer. Gillis always seems to want to play it safe with minor pickups (money ball Strategy). Yet the GM's that are threatening to be fired and making moves out of panic for their job come out as winners. Dean Lombardi comes to mind. Mike Gillis may be smart but he seems to play it to safe or he tries to over think. We are missing out on great players because he refuses to pay more and uses the same play for a contender scheme. Nowadays we are going to have to overpay for free agents. We can't just keep picking up grinders and expecting this magic strategy to work. Another issue with me is letting core players walk because he doesn't want to give term (Mitchell and Salo). We all see how Mitchell turned out but these guys were part of the team you don't just throw them away when they want more years. Did Detroit let Holstrom walk, or what about Chris Osgood.

Flame suit on and ready.
The fact that you expect our GM (regardless of who it is) to sign just about every available superstar out there is hilarious.
Only a couple of GMs have done that this off-season and in the past few years, and that's because the players wanted to play there/had the opportunity to get tons of ice time and money.

It was stated that the Canucks thought about sending an offer sheet to Weber, but they decided that Nashville would probably match it. The thing with offer sheets is that you will piss off the other team's GM if you send one, so Gillis doesn't want to make an enemy unless he knows he could get that player.

Parise and Suter talked to each other and decided to go to Minnesota, there is nothing Gillis could have done about that. Other very good teams offered big money to them and were turned down (Pittsburgh, Detroit, Philly, etc).

Gillis has sent an offer to Doan, and now it's up to Doan to decide whether or not he wants to stay in Phoenix or look to sign with another team. Even if Doan signs elsewhere, I wont be making a post like yourself. He has made a significant offer for Doan (rumored to be around 2 years, $6 mil per), if Doan signs elsewhere it will be because another team offered more years/money (which is a risky overpayment) or because he preferred playing elsewhere.


The Canucks are a very good team right now, we've won a couple of presidents trophies, our players have won a few NHL trophies, and we made it all the way to game 7 of the cup finals a year ago.
We currently have two very good 1st line centers (in my opinion), one of the best d-cores in the NHL, and a great goalie problem to be having.
All we need right now is a 2nd line right winger to play with Kesler and Booth (as it seems like Gillis wants Schroeder to play on the 3rd line next season). If we sign Doan, then we're set pretty damn well for next season. If we don't, then look at signing another forward (there are still a couple of decent guys left) or trading Luongo for a top 6 forward.

Pittsburgh was unable to sign any superstars (and they traded away a good top 4 d-man for nothing hoping to sign Suter).
Detroit was unable to sign any superstars (even though they have an amazing coach, team chemistry/history, and tons of cap space).
The Rangers were unable to sign any superstars this off-season.
The Blackhawks were unable to sign any superstars this off-season.
And the list goes on.

Welcome to HF boards.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:07 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
Schneider COULD be a franchise goalie, but Luongo IS one. Why the hell did we sign Lou to that deal if the organization thought of Schneider so highly?
Nobody could've known that Cory Schneider would develop into a potential franchise goaltender at the time Luongo's 12 year deal was negotiated because he had five career NHL starts and a .877 save percentage at that time.

He had the pedigree but dozens of goaltenders have that and never get anywhere at the NHL level.

Your wilful ignorance of the context of the situations you've brought up makes the prospect of discussing this stuff tiresome and probably pointless.

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07-19-2012, 04:09 PM
  #44
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I'm growing tired of our ****** drafting. If we had a plethora of young talent like Philly and LA, I can guarantee MG would have made the necessary moves to fill in the holes in our roster.

New York has perhaps been most active with "big name" UFA's the past 10 years. Holik, Redden, Gomez, Richards to name a few. Do they have a cup? Luckily their GM has finally sorted their **** out by drafting smart and making smart trades.
You get a plethora of young talent by sucking and drafting high. The big young talents they have from 2008 onward - Schenn, Doughty, Couturier were all very high picks.

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07-19-2012, 04:10 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
Look at the Canucks' recent draft successes and see where they were 1-4 years after being drafted:


Kesler (16 point season 4 years after being drafted)

Schneider (AHL backup 4 years after being drafted)

Edler (AHLer 3 years after being drafted)

Grabner (AHL/NHL tweener 4 years after being drafted)

Raymond (still in university 3 years after being drafted)

Bieksa (AHLer 4 years after being drafted)


Only the Sedins made the NHL quickly and even then it took them until their 5th season after being drafted before they were solid top 6 players. You might want to be a little more patient, especially with guys drafted only 1-2 years ago.
I haven't looked into it but what kid of numbes were these kids you listed putting up before making it to the big club compared to the guys currently in our system?

I've got no problem being patient but so far we haven't seen enough to really make you believe that these guys have got that potential to be good NHL players. I might be wrong tough...

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:10 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
- Luongo contract. Why give him a 12 year extension when you know you have a good goalie prospect in the system? Now we are trying to trade him and can't get anything good in return for a franchise goalie.
So you're complaining because the package they'll get for Luongo won't meet your expectations while simultaneously complaining that they didn't let him walk for nothing when his last contract was up. You're not making a lot of sense.

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07-19-2012, 04:12 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Alright, you ready?



The fact that you expect our GM (regardless of who it is) to sign just about every available superstar out there is hilarious.
Only a couple of GMs have done that this off-season and in the past few years, and that's because the players wanted to play there/had the opportunity to get tons of ice time and money.

It was stated that the Canucks thought about sending an offer sheet to Weber, but they decided that Nashville would probably match it. The thing with offer sheets is that you will piss off the other team's GM if you send one, so Gillis doesn't want to make an enemy unless he knows he could get that player.

Parise and Suter talked to each other and decided to go to Minnesota, there is nothing Gillis could have done about that. Other very good teams offered big money to them and were turned down (Pittsburgh, Detroit, Philly, etc).

Gillis has sent an offer to Doan, and now it's up to Doan to decide whether or not he wants to stay in Phoenix or look to sign with another team. Even if Doan signs elsewhere, I wont be making a post like yourself. He has made a significant offer for Doan (rumored to be around 2 years, $6 mil per), if Doan signs elsewhere it will be because another team offered more years/money (which is a risky overpayment) or because he preferred playing elsewhere.


The Canucks are a very good team right now, we've won a couple of presidents trophies, our players have won a few NHL trophies, and we made it all the way to game 7 of the cup finals a year ago.
We currently have two very good 1st line centers (in my opinion), one of the best d-cores in the NHL, and a great goalie problem to be having.
All we need right now is a 2nd line right winger to play with Kesler and Booth (as it seems like Gillis wants Schroeder to play on the 3rd line next season). If we sign Doan, then we're set pretty damn well for next season. If we don't, then look at signing another forward (there are still a couple of decent guys left) or trading Luongo for a top 6 forward.

Pittsburgh was unable to sign any superstars (and they traded away a good top 4 d-man for nothing hoping to sign Suter).
Detroit was unable to sign any superstars (even though they have an amazing coach, team chemistry/history, and tons of cap space).
The Rangers were unable to sign any superstars this off-season.
The Blackhawks were unable to sign any superstars this off-season.
And the list goes on.

Welcome to HF boards.
Thank you for the good information.

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:12 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
People list his good moves but what about bad moves?

- Trading a 1st and a very good prospect for Keith Ballard who is a bottom pairing dman on our team. That first turned out to be Howden, a guy who Gillis wants in a return for Luongo and Grabner went on to score 30 goals the next season with the Islanders

- Luongo contract. Why give him a 12 year extension when you know you have a good goalie prospect in the system? Now we are trying to trade him and can't get anything good in return for a franchise goalie.

- Letting Ehrhoff go for nothing. This was the Jovo situation all over again. Ehrhoff was our best defenseman. It's not a coincidence that when he arrived to the Canucks our top players broke out offensively. It's also not a coincidence that when he was running our PP, it was #1 in the league. Signing Garrison for 6 years at 4.6M per, yet letting Ehrhoff walk because he wanted something north of 5M is stupid. You didn't have to give him a 10 year deal, but we could have had him for 6 years at 5.5M per (max)

- Horrible drafting. Hodgson was the most highly touted Canucks prospect in a long time and we all know how that ended. Understandable seeing as how Gillis had his hands tied. But what about our other prospects? In his 4 year tenure as Canucks GM not a single one of his draft picks have made the Canucks roster except for Hodgson. Tanev has made the roster, but he was a free agent signing, but I will give him that. How do you expect to contend 5-10 years down the road when you have no great young players?
Probably because most of his good moves outweigh his bad ones?

At the time of the Ballard trade we weren't sure of Mitchell's future & needed D men that could stay healthy. You also have to remember this is before we got Hamhuis in UFA. You forgot to mention Grabner going on waivers because he couldn't make the Panthers out of training camps... thats right the PANTHERS!

Maybe he gave Lu that deal because he didn't think Schneider would develop into the goalie that he has become? Maybe he wanted insurance in case Schneider didn't develop? Also the more time that goes along the more that Luongo's contract looks better & better!

I'm kind of with you on Ehrhoff but all I'm going to say is -13 in the run to the cup. Maybe Gillis didn't think his al around play deserved top pairing money (at the time)

Isn't it too early to get on GMMG's drafting? Where we rank usually & how good of a team we are well we shouldn't be expecting recently drafted players to make the jump so fast. Hello Detriot Model? You mention Tanev but you forget to mention how well he has done filling a bare cupboard left by Nonis with Free Agent signings.

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07-19-2012, 04:14 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
People list his good moves but what about bad moves?

- Trading a 1st and a very good prospect for Keith Ballard who is a bottom pairing dman on our team. That first turned out to be Howden, a guy who Gillis wants in a return for Luongo and Grabner went on to score 30 goals the next season with the Islanders

- Luongo contract. Why give him a 12 year extension when you know you have a good goalie prospect in the system? Now we are trying to trade him and can't get anything good in return for a franchise goalie.

- Letting Ehrhoff go for nothing. This was the Jovo situation all over again. Ehrhoff was our best defenseman. It's not a coincidence that when he arrived to the Canucks our top players broke out offensively. It's also not a coincidence that when he was running our PP, it was #1 in the league. Signing Garrison for 6 years at 4.6M per, yet letting Ehrhoff walk because he wanted something north of 5M is stupid. You didn't have to give him a 10 year deal, but we could have had him for 6 years at 5.5M per (max)

- Horrible drafting. Hodgson was the most highly touted Canucks prospect in a long time and we all know how that ended. Understandable seeing as how Gillis had his hands tied. But what about our other prospects? In his 4 year tenure as Canucks GM not a single one of his draft picks have made the Canucks roster except for Hodgson. Tanev has made the roster, but he was a free agent signing, but I will give him that. How do you expect to contend 5-10 years down the road when you have no great young players?
1) We needed D at the time, Grabner did nothing for us and 1st could be a bust or anything. While Ballard had many injuries with the Canucks

2) One mistake. It's not like Gillis is the only one who signed a player a long term

3) It's called the playoffs. What are you supposed to do with Ehrhoff when he wanted more money AND term than what Gillis wanted? And get over it, lots of free agents get away with nothing

4) It's hard to draft when you have 20~30th pick. The chances of them making the NHL is very slim

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07-19-2012, 04:14 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by peacepanda View Post
We have seen major free agents pass with us not throwing an offer. Gillis always seems to want to play it safe with minor pickups (money ball Strategy). Yet the GM's that are threatening to be fired and making moves out of panic for their job come out as winners. Dean Lombardi comes to mind. Mike Gillis may be smart but he seems to play it to safe or he tries to over think. We are missing out on great players because he refuses to pay more and uses the same play for a contender scheme. Nowadays we are going to have to overpay for free agents. We can't just keep picking up grinders and expecting this magic strategy to work. Another issue with me is letting core players walk because he doesn't want to give term (Mitchell and Salo). We all see how Mitchell turned out but these guys were part of the team you don't just throw them away when they want more years. Did Detroit let Holstrom walk, or what about Chris Osgood.

Flame suit on and ready.
half the argument is mute due to Mitchell.

July 1st came around and it wasnt clear if Willie would be able to play the coming year...not until 1/2way through Aug did he start to recover from his concussion.
so he could wait for him and not sign hamhuis and/or Ballard and hope he was able to play........he did that at the trade deadline and Willie wasnt able to play....


we couldnt match the dollar amount or possiblty the two year term.......team close to cap vs a team laden with entry level contracts.....it was just bad timing or luck with Willie on both acoounts ie not able to play in playoffs or resign.


as for DL in lA fans were asking for his head many times because he was so timid at times and some times things change.........reminds me of Bos GM fans were clamering for his head the year before....how could he give such a large contract to TT,,,,


ONLY ONE TEAM CAN WIN EACH YEAR........and sometimes great teams struggle....


what about LA.....all they had to do was lose 2 more gmes and lose out on one tie.. and no first ever title


twice Van was within a game to win the cup and both 94 and 2010 missed .....


so close to 2 cups but we have no cups......slim marginfor error or winning

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