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Max Pacioretty

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Old
07-19-2012, 04:23 PM
  #1
Lemons
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Max Pacioretty

Just out of curiosity what does the league value him at ?

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07-19-2012, 05:15 PM
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Patty Roy
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Originally Posted by Fastasaurus View Post
Probably more valuable to the Habs than most others. I would put him under nash and under Ryan. but not by all that much.
Young, 30 goal power forwards do not grow on trees. He would hold high value around the league...i'm not sure he's any more valuable to Montreal than he would be to a number of clubs.

He's not as good as Nash or Ryan, but given his current contractual situation i'm not sure his value is all that far off.

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07-19-2012, 05:15 PM
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He's a young 30 goal scorer. He also brings a good power forward game. Pretty sure the Habs have zero interest in moving him. It'd take a lot. They don't exactly have a plethora of physical players who can score.

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07-19-2012, 06:25 PM
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What was Chris Stewart worth 2 years ago?

About that, but a little less.

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07-19-2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Minimalist View Post
What was Chris Stewart worth 2 years ago?

About that, but a little less.
Was Stewart ever known for his work ethic and commitment to training? I don't want to assume, but I've always read that he's not known for that.

Pacioretty is known for that, and I'd think that would be something most teams value. Oh, and he led all LW's in goals/60 minutes last season.

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07-19-2012, 07:03 PM
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I know he has this reputation as a "power forward", but tbh, as somebody who has seen nearly all of his games in the NHL... I dunno... he has pretty decent size, but I don't find he goes out of his way to be physical at all. He doesn't hide. He also doesn't get a lot of his goals in traffic or stand in the danger zone all that much. I know his reputation was somewhat different in his draft year, we sort of all labeled him as a PF draft candidate and he was on our radar even before the Habs picked him as a result. Not a lot of us saw him play back then, though. It sounds as if he might have been more aggressive. So far, not a lot of it at the NHL level, however. But that's probably fair too, since he had some time just trying to break in, then the injury, and only now is emerging. Perhaps as he gains confidence he'll start to fulfill some of the "power" expectations.

FWIW.

His value might as well be "infinity", however, since no team is going to give the Habs the overpayment it would take to get him.

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07-19-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Deaner View Post
Was Stewart ever known for his work ethic and commitment to training? I don't want to assume, but I've always read that he's not known for that.

Pacioretty is known for that, and I'd think that would be something most teams value. Oh, and he led all LW's in goals/60 minutes last season.
Stewart's issues in that area were not really public knowledge even to Avs fans before he was traded. There were some speculation because he got sent down the the minors once but he was to young to have really gotten any label like that.

When he was traded he was a fan favorite at the time because he could hit, fight and score goals. Most people just figured he was young and needed to mature a bit.

Which still could be the case but now he has a lot more spotlight and scrutiny at this point.

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07-19-2012, 08:10 PM
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poetryinmotion
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I know he has this reputation as a "power forward", but tbh, as somebody who has seen nearly all of his games in the NHL... I dunno... he has pretty decent size, but I don't find he goes out of his way to be physical at all. He doesn't hide. He also doesn't get a lot of his goals in traffic or stand in the danger zone all that much. I know his reputation was somewhat different in his draft year, we sort of all labeled him as a PF draft candidate and he was on our radar even before the Habs picked him as a result. Not a lot of us saw him play back then, though. It sounds as if he might have been more aggressive. So far, not a lot of it at the NHL level, however. But that's probably fair too, since he had some time just trying to break in, then the injury, and only now is emerging. Perhaps as he gains confidence he'll start to fulfill some of the "power" expectations.

FWIW.

His value might as well be "infinity", however, since no team is going to give the Habs the overpayment it would take to get him.
I respectfully disaree. Guess Cole isn't a PWF too either then? Kane? Ryan? Perry? I mean... n'either go "out of their way" to be mean because they are also very talented hockey players, but they are powerforwards.







I'll stop there, but it seems most of the time he barely even tries to lay a hit and he ends up crushing someone. But clearly he's not afraid to use his body, and he's built like a rock. When Max goes in the corners he always comes up with the puck; he has an impressive ratio in doing that because he is simply stronger than most defensemen.

Do you also think Chara's hit on him was an accident? I mean surely it couldn't have been because Pacioretty always KILLED Boston in our meetings, a team much tougher than we are, with physicality and scoring. Chara took it upon himself to make sure they won the Cup with that hit, or else Max would have destroyed them in R1.

I laugh when some Habs fans think that he's not a PWF, he was drafted as one and still is.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:10 PM
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More than you'd want to pay.

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07-19-2012, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I respectfully disaree. Guess Cole isn't a PWF too either then? Kane? Ryan? Perry? I mean... n'either go "out of their way" to be mean because they are also very talented hockey players, but they are powerforwards.
...
I laugh when some Habs fans think that he's not a PWF, he was drafted as one and still is.
Dunno, you can probably cherry pick 3 youtube videos of all kinds of players throwing a big hit. You can go down the list of the 110 forwards who had more hits in the league last year than him, and decide which ones are power forwards and which aren't. In the end, it's a purely subjective label anyway. He's an excellent player and one I wouldn't trade from the Habs, and one of my favourite players. Just not what I call a "power forward". Yet. Although my use of the term is coloured probably by the 1990's ideal, which has become so much rarer these days. If you want to call players like him a power forward, I don't mind. I'm sure there are many people who do, just as there are many people like me who don't have quite the same liberalized definition, and might appreciate the caveat I provided. A chacun son gout. I wouldn't laugh at either group.

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07-19-2012, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Dunno, you can probably cherry pick 3 youtube videos of all kinds of players throwing a big hit. You can go down the list of the 110 forwards who had more hits in the league last year than him, and decide which ones are power forwards and which aren't. In the end, it's a purely subjective label anyway. He's an excellent player and one I wouldn't trade from the Habs, and one of my favourite players. Just not what I call a "power forward". Yet. Although my use of the term is coloured probably by the 1990's ideal, which has become so much rarer these days. If you want to call players like him a power forward, I don't mind. I'm sure there are many people who do, just as there are many people like me who don't have quite the same liberalized definition, and might appreciate the caveat I provided. A chacun son gout. I wouldn't laugh at either group.
Well, Max plays a similar game to the players I listed in my post. If they are considered PWF (and they are, by the vast majority of this forum) then so is he. I know the definition is rather loose, so I decide to base my opinion on what is considered one by comparing him to similar type of players. So, again, by your definition Cole isn't a powerforward, but Canes fans and the rest of the forum argue he is; and Max might as well be a carbon copy. I'm curious, who in your eyes is a PWF in the league right now? It's not a question meant to bait or anything, but I'm asking because I don't think there are only a handful of players in the NHL right now that fit the traditional mold of the powerforward type. (ones that can score anyway) Oh and as for the videos I cherrypicked, I guess they show Max having a mean streak more than anything.

One thing I want to mention as well is that Max shoots the puck a ton. He doesn't have it on his stick for very long before it's released immediately towards the net. Could that maybe factor in somehow? You don't see him drag people on his back a lot because he retrieves the puck and either passes or shoots right away.


Last edited by poetryinmotion: 07-19-2012 at 10:09 PM.
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Old
07-19-2012, 10:30 PM
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As a Leafs fan I would give up a lot, because I see how good he is and how good he'll be.

He is one of the few players I would give up Gardiner for, probably throw in a guy like Kulemin or Frattin.

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07-19-2012, 11:08 PM
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A few hits of a player on youtube does not prove their powerforward status

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07-19-2012, 11:14 PM
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Name your price. McDonagh/Lundqvist are untouchables.

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07-19-2012, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Well, Max plays a similar game to the players I listed in my post.
Disagree. Mildly/in degree. He's not as obnoxious as Perry. Doesn't go to the net or have the scrappiness of Kane or the bulk of Ryan. Not all of those things are necessary to be a "power forward". I might say a "power forward" does throw hits, can score at least 20+, and is as likely to go through defenders as around them, say. Lucic is a "power forward" to me. Shanahan, Nolan, Tkachuk, Neely, that is more the prototype. It's not really something that is "arguable" or "debateable". It just depends on what the label subjectively means to you. Pacioretty isn't going to fight, he doesn't score many of his goals in traffic, he doesn't cycle to the extent some bigger forwards do, and as you say, he doesn't carry players on his back. He's strong and fast and can score 30 goals... but I'm thinking you could pick a lot of guys who are strong and fast and can score 30 goals who a lot of people wouldn't call "power forwards". I'd say that if Pacioretty is a "power forward" for you, then most players who are 6'0+/200-ish and don't outright carry a "soft" label are like-wise "power forwards". It becomes a much looser definition. Which is fine. Most teams will have a few. Habs will have Cole and Pacioretty, possibly Bourque if he gets back on track. Possibly Eller if he steps up a bit more.

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07-20-2012, 12:00 AM
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Young, 30 goal power forwards do not grow on trees.
Actually yes, Paciorretty is a nut.

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07-20-2012, 12:03 AM
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A few hits of a player on youtube does not prove their powerforward status
As a Habs fan, I would also agree that Pacioretty is not a real powerforward and that's not meant for downgrading him or anything, he just doesn't play the typical style of a powerforward. There's more finesse in his game than the mean streak of a PF.

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07-20-2012, 12:24 AM
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Just out of curiosity what does the league value him at ?
i think he makes my list of top 30 wingers in the league... that puts him at a level of an average to above average first line winger... hes younger then most on the list.. cheaper.... that helps trade value

even if hes not quite that good... hes still a legit first liner on some teams... you got to figure hes worth their first and a player that can play in return. an example from boston would be our first and a guy like peverly or caron or boychuck or spooner... something like that...

other teams can offer better packages.

hes a hell of a good player and id love him on my team

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07-20-2012, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Do you also think Chara's hit on him was an accident? I mean surely it couldn't have been because Pacioretty always KILLED Boston in our meetings, a team much tougher than we are, with physicality and scoring. Chara took it upon himself to make sure they won the Cup with that hit, or else Max would have destroyed them in R1.

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07-20-2012, 12:47 AM
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led all LW's in goals/60 minutes last season
Good stat.

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07-20-2012, 01:20 AM
  #21
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I might have gone off topic with that little snippet but I bet I'm not the only Habs fan that thinks like that. If you look at his stats vs. Boston and how the series went to 7, 3 ot's then it's not too far fetched to draw that conclusion. I can go beyond that motive and such but I won't.

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07-20-2012, 01:25 AM
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Oh, and he led all LW's in goals/60 minutes last season.
Actually, that was mini-Gionta.

S. Gionta for Pacioretty+?

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07-20-2012, 01:30 AM
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Actually, that was mini-Gionta.

S. Gionta for Pacioretty+?
1 GP? Sure let's do it.

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07-20-2012, 02:31 AM
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He's a young 30 goal scorer. He also brings a good power forward game. Pretty sure the Habs have zero interest in moving him. It'd take a lot. They don't exactly have a plethora of physical players who can score.
i agree 100%

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07-20-2012, 09:01 AM
  #25
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Dubinsky,Mcilrath,2nd? Far off? I'd love to have Pacioretty on the Rangers he's a perfect fit in my opinion

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