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Weber signed to offer sheet (TSN: 14 yrs, $110m, cap hit $7.8m per yr.) Part 2

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07-21-2012, 10:00 AM
  #426
MSSLYNX
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Luke's relationship with Weber makes Brayden tougher to deal imo. Anyway both have great upside and close to similar value around the league i would say.

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07-21-2012, 10:02 AM
  #427
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It needs to be repeated, Poile was asking for BSchenn and/or Couturier in trade talks on Wednesday. Homer wasn't having it which is why the OS was sent and signed. BSchenn and Couturier are going no where. Nashville will take what players we offer(if any at all), or the four firsts, or they pay Weber.

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07-21-2012, 10:04 AM
  #428
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Couturier might have been offered straight up for Weber before the offer sheet.

No way Snyder doesnt go for that swap straight up.

Of course they tried to deal Voracek, Read, etc before the offer sheet.

Now with the clock ticking and the real possibility of adding Weber, only Giroux is off-limit.

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07-21-2012, 10:07 AM
  #429
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or they pay Weber... and Phila doesnt get him. Dont leave that part out.

I believe there is some downside to Phila if Nsh matches. July 2013 we can see Weber dealt east.

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07-21-2012, 10:09 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
If i'm Poile from a hockey perspective i go to my owners and convince them not to go in a rebuilding mode. To do that you got to go for a Gratton-deal on the side.

Phila has a log jam at 2C with Briere, Schenn and Couturier. Couturier could be had.

Phila also has lots of d signed. 1 maybe even 2 could be had.
Phila has a history of dealing prospects so this year's first could go too (Laughton)

Now you say "well seems like Holmgren doesnt want to trade Couturier".

Maybe he would change his mind if he got 4 first Nsh picks in return...

Nsh gets: Couturier, a d (Mesazaros is the only one without a clause), throw in a Bourdon, a Laughton and 4 Phila picks.

I wonder if Kimmo would agree to finish his contract back with Nsh?

Lots of possibilities to get it done between the gms.

Phi gets: Weber and 4 Nsh picks.
We are not dealing Sean Couturier.
If we would Shea Weber would've already held a press conference in South Philadelphia.

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07-21-2012, 10:09 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
or they pay Weber... and Phila doesnt get him. Dont leave that part out.

I believe there is some downside to Phila if Nsh matches. July 2013 we can see Weber dealt east.
Fine, let them pay $26M just to deal him.

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07-21-2012, 10:10 AM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
or they pay Weber... and Phila doesnt get him. Dont leave that part out.

I believe there is some downside to Phila if Nsh matches. July 2013 we can see Weber dealt east.
after paying Weber $26m in one year, I highly doubt NSH is going to trade him unless he asks to be traded

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07-21-2012, 10:10 AM
  #433
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Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
or they pay Weber... and Phila doesnt get him. Dont leave that part out.

I believe there is some downside to Phila if Nsh matches. July 2013 we can see Weber dealt east.
Serious question... if Nashille matches and dishes out 27 million under one calendar year, do you really think they trade him after that? They're not the Yankees.

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07-21-2012, 10:13 AM
  #434
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And how that money spent has anything to do with Phila not having Weber and Weber playing for the Rangers next season? Crippling the finances of an owner wasnt Phila's motive here.

Getting Weber is.

Now if Poile asked for both Couturier and Schenn its a different story. Nobody here knows that.

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07-21-2012, 10:16 AM
  #435
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They might not trade him but then Phila would not be getting him. I dont see the accomplishment there.

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07-21-2012, 10:18 AM
  #436
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MSSLYNX

The offersheet was to ensure either we got him, or nashville did.

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07-21-2012, 10:21 AM
  #437
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My gut is telling me that IF Nashville doesn't match then the package going the other way might be Voracek, Mez, one of MAB/Gus, and 2 1sts ... we can debate that we don't owe them any players or that the compensation above might be too high but if this is the type of deal so that we can sign one of the best D-men in the NHL for 14 years AND keep the Schenns and Couts, I'm all for it.

I know NSH is going to do their due diligence but if they were going to match I think the announcement would have been made sooner then later. I don't put too much into the "waiting 'till Wednesday hurts the Flyers from making other moves". As far as we all figured until Thursday morning when we all woke up and read the news except for resigning Voracek the Flyers' summer was essentially done.

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07-21-2012, 10:23 AM
  #438
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I'd suggest there are two angles you're working right now as Nash GM.

1. You set the groundwork for a trade 1 year out... Enough to establish and prove market value... And make the 1yr cash needed more palatable to owners... Ie. if you can give me 27m, I can get you a,b,c > 4 1sts

2. you use #1... And threat of outright matching...to leverage more out of flyers in trade for the 4 1st rounders

Within the organization, you're obviously doing everything to convince ownership to give you cash to match. The first 5 years basically wrecks your earnings forecast and valuation. Hard to see lenders advancing cash for this... So you're looking at ownership injecting more cash. Hard to imagine there's widespread ownership agreement and ability to do this equally and suddenly.... Hard to imagine this will take place within one week if not already worked out. If only some owners could do this... Like Wilson, implies taking a greater ownership position vs the other owners. You don't do that for the return on investment... Unless your ability to inject cash is getting you very favourable terms vs other owners... So You do it because it's an ego investment... Or because the ownership stake gives you leverage for a more strategic move that does provide a long term return on investment (moving the team)... This last one doesn't make to much sense (save the face of franchise in Nash to speed up moving it)... So its really and ego/pride thing among owners. Hard to say how that works from outside. As gm, you can't control that...So as gm, you're left with 1 and 2.

How weber feels doesn't really enter into it this week... You deal with that if/when ownership gives you cash to match.

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07-21-2012, 10:25 AM
  #439
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I dont see a problem in moving the Schenns to make sure this deal goes thru especially if the Flyers sign Doan. Nashville can save face and the Flyers keep the 1st round picks. The way the Flyers draft especially in the 1st round, replacing Schenn will be easy. Plus it avoids the possible salary cap problem in two season with Giroux. Couturier, B.Schenn, and Read all needing new deals. I personally view the 4 1st round picks as greater value to the Flyers than Schenn and Schenn. Its a win win for everybody involved IMO.

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07-21-2012, 10:34 AM
  #440
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krishna, exactly.
Now we need to work to avoid the "Nsh gets him" part.
We succeeded in getting rid of other teams for 12 months. Great job there.

Now its time to finish. Doesnt have to get done this week. A few weeks before preseason when cooler heads prevail.

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07-21-2012, 10:39 AM
  #441
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Four days.

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07-21-2012, 10:39 AM
  #442
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It seems like there's widespread agreement here on the deal we want to get back for the 4 1st, mex, read etc

For this to work for Nash, will need to be better than that I'm afraid... Those suggesting couturier sound warmer to me.

If you're homer, and you want to make this happen... You go there.

The relevant comparison isn't vs 4 1sts (counting chickens before they hatch)... It's vs no change/weber whatsoever if Nash matches (odds of trade to Philly if Nash matches are remote)

Homer is still smart to have gone this route if this is better than what Nash asking per offer sheet ... Couts plus Schenn

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07-21-2012, 10:39 AM
  #443
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The Schenns shouldnt go and def not Couturier...call Nashville's bluff. They simply cant afford Weber but if they want to mortgage their future be my guest...

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07-21-2012, 10:41 AM
  #444
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What part about us tendering the offersheet to Weber vs giving up Schenn and Couts dont people get? Weber would have been here already....

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07-21-2012, 10:44 AM
  #445
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What part about us tendering the offersheet to Weber vs giving up Schenn and Couts dont people get? Weber would have been here already....
Don't bother, it's rammig your head repeatedly against the wall. I even see hockey writers mentioning their names. Makes zero sense.

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07-21-2012, 10:45 AM
  #446
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This thread is getting silly with all the trade speculation. Bottom line, if NSH's owners feel like they can afford to/are willing to shell out the $27M in the first year that the contract calls for they will match. If they can't, they won't. Homer knows this...he's not trading Voracek, or Coburn, or both Schenns, or Couturier. And he shouldn't.

Nashvillie has some leverage (their right to match), but Homer and everybody else knows (or should understand) that if they have the ability they would be foolish not to keep the player. The terms of the contract aren't outrageous, it's the breakdown and the frontloading that are.

And as for them trading him after a year...not happening. Absolutely not. If you're Nashville and you're giving up 4 1sts and $27M for 1 year of Weber + X, what do you suppose X has to be to make that worthwhile to you? Say Weber is worth ~$8M a year...if I'm giving up ~$20M and 4 1sts I'd better be getting something really nice in return. That's a trade for Lindros/Gretzky type of package. And the Rangers for example have nothing to make that worthwhile. I suppose you could argue Malkin is worth that, but is there any way Pitt sends Malkin to Nashville for Weber next summer? No chance. There's no way they get a package worth moving him, so let's all forget the "trade him in a year" scenarios.

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07-21-2012, 10:45 AM
  #447
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What part of "and" vs "or" you dont get??? If he asked for both Schenn and Couturier then good luck with our offer sheet.

Now that your guy signed our offer shheet, what can i do for you today mr.Poile?

Remember though that Holmgren wants Weber to play for him, not for Nashville.

Couturier + a salary to Nsh and some picks back.

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07-21-2012, 10:51 AM
  #448
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Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
They might not trade him but then Phila would not be getting him. I dont see the accomplishment there.
really?

If we don't get him.....Rangers, Pens, and all the other teams in the East don't get him either

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07-21-2012, 10:51 AM
  #449
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Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
This thread is getting silly with all the trade speculation. Bottom line, if NSH's owners feel like they can afford to/are willing to shell out the $27M in the first year that the contract calls for they will match. If they can't, they won't. Homer knows this...he's not trading Voracek, or Coburn, or both Schenns, or Couturier. And he shouldn't.

Nashvillie has some leverage (their right to match), but Homer and everybody else knows (or should understand) that if they have the ability they would be foolish not to keep the player. The terms of the contract aren't outrageous, it's the breakdown and the frontloading that are.
I agree with your points but I do think there is the possibility of Nashville being able to match but ultimately trying to see what they can get instead. Not saying if I was a GM I would get rid of Weber given the resources to keep him, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility from a Preds standpoint.

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07-21-2012, 10:57 AM
  #450
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RJ, i get that.
Point was we were now to: we get him or Nsh does.
If Nsh does get him, we dont.

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