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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt V)

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:52 PM
  #126
letsgodonearle
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Trade not likely if matched

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tripps View Post
Then wait until the Preds trade you?
Not looking to burst the Nashville folks bubble but this contract has a NMC clause starting in year two. So all of these scenarios where Nashville pays him for a year and moves him for a better package isn't likely to happen. If he really wants to play in Phila and Nashville matches I can't see him waving his no trade. Nashville either matches and pays him for the forseeable future or the Flyers do the same. Weber signed this because it gets him his money and he either stays in Nashville or goes to the team of his choice. This is why we visited Detroit, San Jose and New York last week. He picked Phila to sign the sheet because he knows he either stays in Nashville or goes to Phila and either way he gets paid. The NMC has been overlooked by most analysts but that is what really hangs Nashville out to dry.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:53 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
they should probably just match and then trade him to Philly for some 1sts + roster players.

No way is losing Weber for JUST picks anything good...

2013 1st
2014 1st
Matt Read
Sean Couturier
Kimmo Timonen
Really?

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:53 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cup67 View Post
i dont think weber wants to be nashville anymore, he sign an offer sheet, and nashville wanted to trade him.
so why should nashville match, when weber wants out. weber would take the money but wont be happy playing there, cancer in the room.
time to move on, take your 4 1st's start the rebuild.
I've said this a lot of times today, but you don't sign an offer sheet wanting to get out of a city, especially when you're one year away from free agency and its a life-long deal. He knows very well that Nashville has the option to match it and very well might. He didn't sign until arbitration last year because Nashville didn't want to give him the term he wanted, which is exactly what he gets with this. I've also said this multiple times, but 4 late firsts is not close to his value, and letting him go is terrible asset management.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:54 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I was being facetious with the Ryan part.

As for the other part, I think Nashville matches and either pays the 28M for two seasons OR the 91M for 8 seasons. From a numbers and asset management perspective, that makes infinitely more sense than taking four (late) first round picks.

Hey, they may not match, and it was worth it for Homer to take the shot because, as I said, the worst outcome from him is that he kept Weber from being traded to a place like New York.
One problem for Nashville that you seem to be glossing over is that if they match for Weber, they will be rather cash poor for the the first 4 years of the contract when they're paying Weber 14M and Rinne 7M. Those two will eat up a huge chunk of the budget and won't leave much room for improvements for the rest of the team. If they match they'll be at ~60M in payroll for this season after they get to the floor and ~37M in payroll obligations for the following season for only 7 players. So if they match, they either become a high payroll (not salary cap) team for the next 4-6 years or they become Weber/Rinne and a bunch of ELCs and low cost players.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:54 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGalt View Post
The Preds are gonna pay $11.5 million per season over 8 years AND THEN trade him!?!?!?

Yea, that makes sense.
I don't think they trade him at all. But if they get over the financially rough parts they could trade him when they don't have to pay the huge portion of the salary which is in the first 5 years.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:54 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
they should probably just match and then trade him to Philly for some 1sts + roster players.

No way is losing Weber for JUST picks anything good...

2013 1st
2014 1st
Matt Read
Sean Couturier
Kimmo Timonen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Match, then deal him for the 4 1sts+.

Either way, it's nuts for the Predators to not match.


ATTENTION: The Predators cannot match and trade.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:55 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgodonearle View Post
Not looking to burst the Nashville folks bubble but this contract has a NMC clause starting in year two. So all of these scenarios where Nashville pays him for a year and moves him for a better package isn't likely to happen. If he really wants to play in Phila and Nashville matches I can't see him waving his no trade. Nashville either matches and pays him for the forseeable future or the Flyers do the same. Weber signed this because it gets him his money and he either stays in Nashville or goes to the team of his choice. This is why we visited Detroit, San Jose and New York last week. He picked Phila to sign the sheet because he knows he either stays in Nashville or goes to Phila and either way he gets paid. The NMC has been overlooked by most analysts but that is what really hangs Nashville out to dry.
I find it funny that you created an account just to post wrong info.

Nashville just has to match the money, not the breakdown of the money nor the terms such as NMC NTC

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:55 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
And if Nashville is willing to match this offer...why not OFFER it to him last year...or thru this year. ANd by doing so...maybe Suter stays too. Poile played poker with Suter and lost. And now he might lose with Weber too.
i DO agree with this. he has played hard ball too much. people started looking at other destinations very early. it IS poiles own fault.
the oilers better be paying attention.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:55 PM
  #134
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lets just face it. the flyers have their franchise D man

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:56 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraLupin View Post
This is a ridiculous statement, usually when you shop a player, it means you probably want to trade him in the future.

Let's just go shop Crosby, just to see what his value would be..
I know you think you're being sarcastic, but you just spoke the truth. Yes, teams will dangle a player out there right before a contract extension to weigh their options. It may not be the case here with Weber, but it absolutely happens.

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07-19-2012, 08:56 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
One problem for Nashville that you seem to be glossing over is that if they match for Weber, they will be rather cash poor for the the first 4 years of the contract when they're paying Weber 14M and Rinne 7M. Those two will eat up a huge chunk of the budget and won't leave much room for improvements for the rest of the team. If they match they'll be at ~60M in payroll for this season after they get to the floor and ~37M in payroll obligations for the following season for only 7 players. So if they match, they either become a high payroll (not salary cap) team for the next 4-6 years or they become Weber/Rinne and a bunch of ELCs and low cost players.
No, I didn't gloss over it. In fact, I mentioned it several times in the last few pages. Nashville was prepared to pay, starting this year, 15M+ a year for Weber and Suter. From a budget perspective, that's NO different than paying Weber 14M and a kid on an ELC 1M.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:56 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by whskybarJM View Post
lets just face it. the flyers have their franchise D man
Coburn?

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:56 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sm0ka47 View Post
With them losing Suter its a very good possibility they don't even make the playoffs. Especially with that offense. Its not as an easy decision as you are making it.
They have the exact same offense as last year.... Besides after all-star break where they added depth for the playoffs. They also have a full year of very talented D prospects in Ellis/Blum/Josi. With them older and more mature I find it hard for them to miss playoffs for the upcoming year. In addition having one of the top goalies, and having Wilson likely finally crack the top 6 on a permanent basis. I'd say Nashville should be fine for playoffs.

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07-19-2012, 08:57 PM
  #139
gordie
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Looks like some on here don't realize how we got to this point. It is because in trade talks with Philadelphia that Nashville has been asking a price that Philadelphia has been unwilling to pay, so the Predators have explored trades with other teams and Holmgren out of a sense of desperation puts an offer sheet on the table to Weber trying to force Nashville's hand to only deal with Philadelphia and the Flyers still don't want to pay the heavy price Nashville wants from them. Philadelphia is looking to get Weber for a bargain basement price without damaging their present roster.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:58 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgodonearle View Post
Not looking to burst the Nashville folks bubble but this contract has a NMC clause starting in year two. So all of these scenarios where Nashville pays him for a year and moves him for a better package isn't likely to happen. If he really wants to play in Phila and Nashville matches I can't see him waving his no trade. Nashville either matches and pays him for the forseeable future or the Flyers do the same. Weber signed this because it gets him his money and he either stays in Nashville or goes to the team of his choice. This is why we visited Detroit, San Jose and New York last week. He picked Phila to sign the sheet because he knows he either stays in Nashville or goes to Phila and either way he gets paid. The NMC has been overlooked by most analysts but that is what really hangs Nashville out to dry.
Nashville doesn't have to honour the NMC as has been said numerous times. If Nashville matchs they could theoretically send him to Alaska or on transfer to Russia for the rest of his career.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:58 PM
  #141
Snotbubbles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
I've said this a lot of times today, but you don't sign an offer sheet wanting to get out of a city, especially when you're one year away from free agency and its a life-long deal. He knows very well that Nashville has the option to match it and very well might. He didn't sign until arbitration last year because Nashville didn't want to give him the term he wanted, which is exactly what he gets with this. I've also said this multiple times, but 4 late firsts is not close to his value, and letting him go is terrible asset management.
Nice theory, but the type of contract he wanted was only available to him under the current CBA. So his options, if he wanted to get paid AND leave Nashville were:

1. Hope Nashville trades you prior to the new CBA being ratified and sign with your new team; OR

2. Sign an offer sheet.

If all he wanted to do was leave Nashville, then yeah, his easiest route was to wait a year. But he wants to get his money too.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:58 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Coburn?
pretty nice 2nd pairing right?

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:59 PM
  #143
KIRK
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Originally Posted by bauer View Post
no, that's still too much money. keep in mind there would be teams too close to the cap to take on an 8M/year cap hit, then remember it's highly unlikely Poile would want to trade Weber within the division or even the conference, and then you have GM's like Burke who flat out refuse to take on any contract over 7 years, so again, there would not be 29 teams.
If you say so . . .

Oh, by the way, in Weber's case, Burke would make an exception.

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:59 PM
  #144
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They should find the average retirement age of players(cutting out outliers) and not let teams sign players under 30 past that age. Or use a moving average. It's ridiculous and an obvious way for big teams to by pass the salary cap...

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Old
07-19-2012, 08:59 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
is it me or this a no brainer? Surely 4 round picks in my eyes are more than enough for Webber, and 27 million for 2 year is just sickening , I don't know why any franchise would even bother with that
It's you.

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:01 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JGalt View Post
The Preds are gonna pay $11.5 million per season over 8 years AND THEN trade him!?!?!?

Yea, that makes sense.
Maybe not. Maybe they keep him for the whole thing. Or, maybe they pay 28M for two seasons and then name their price for a 28 year old Weber signed for another 12 years and due 81M.

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:01 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
I find it truly disgraceful signing an offer sheet with a team then telling your current team you don't want to play there. You exercise your rights, they will exercise theirs. If I'm Nashville I match it then tell him, look you tried to screw us over, now we keep you until the end of time. If he doesn't want to suit up and honour his contract then there's no signing bonuses anytime in the future.
I'm definitely buying this. You want to play hockey? You're playing for the Preds.

You want out? Too bad. Maybe if you buy the owner's beater for 50M we'll let you go.

**** you too buddy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bauer View Post
you're telling me 29 other teams can afford to pay a player 110M over 14 years?

there are only a handful of teams in the NHL that can afford to pay a player that much money. less than 10 probably.
Well it would be 83M over 13 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Match, then deal him for the 4 1sts+.

Either way, it's nuts for the Predators to not match.
4 1sts + 27M

vs

Whatever you can get in a year.


Is the difference between 4 1sts and whatever package is available worth 27M to a break-even team?





And a comment on the "Philly may not get him but neither will Pit/NYR"

For one year. But if they Trade him after year, you know it won't be to PHI.

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:01 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by gordie View Post
Looks like some on here don't realize how we got to this point. It is because in trade talks with Philadelphia that Nashville has been asking a price that Philadelphia has been unwilling to pay, so the Predators have explored trades with other teams and Holmgren out of a sense of desperation puts an offer sheet on the table to Weber trying to force Nashville's hand to only deal with Philadelphia and the Flyers still don't want to pay the heavy price Nashville wants from them. Philadelphia is looking to get Weber for a bargain basement price without damaging their present roster.
They were talking all of yesterday about a trade negotiation. They also told Nashville that an offer sheet was going to come if nothing was going to get done.

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Old
07-19-2012, 09:01 PM
  #149
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Assuming Nashville uses Weber has to reach the current cap floor:

Say if Nashville matches, they will pay him 14m this season, and 13m in one calendar year from now, which means 1m over the 2nd season.

If they then trade him, they won't pay 1m over the 2nd season, but have to take on players whom they will have to pay about 10m in order to reach the floor. So if they trade Weber, they need to reach the floor again and will have to pay again when they could keep Weber for 1m over the season. Why does Nashville trade him next year? Do I have it wrong?

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07-19-2012, 09:01 PM
  #150
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Looking at the D corps of Philly with Weber, god that is just dirty good, it's almost pretty much the best ****ing D corps in the NHL with Weber added to it if Nashy doesn't match.

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