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Flyers sign Shea Weber to 14-year offer sheet ($7.857M Cap Hit) (Pt V)

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Old
07-19-2012, 10:02 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
It's you.
I'd imagine if a trade is worked out on a gentlemanly agreement it includes one of Schenn/Couturier with Coburn/Mez/Schenn (if Brayden is traded) as well as Simmonds/Read, eliminating the need for first round picks.

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07-19-2012, 10:02 PM
  #152
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Along with New Jersey, yes.
Hey what did we do?

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07-19-2012, 10:02 PM
  #153
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No, I didn't gloss over it. In fact, I mentioned it several times in the last few pages. Nashville was prepared to pay, starting this year, 15M+ a year for Weber and Suter. From a budget perspective, that's NO different than paying Weber 14M and a kid on an ELC 1M.
Sure it is because they still have to get to the cap floor. Paying Suter and Weber 15M+ is 15M+ in cap hits. Paying Weber 14M + a kid 1M is only 8M in cap hits and you need to pay another 7M to reach the same cap hit. So in reality, you have to pay 22M in payroll for the same 15M in cap hits.

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07-19-2012, 10:03 PM
  #154
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pretty nice 2nd pairing right?
Love the move by Homer, but I'm almost certain Poile matches. Still makes sense what Homer did. Best case, the hail mary pays off. Worst case, Weber isn't a Ranger.

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07-19-2012, 10:03 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by ShutDownDefense View Post
Looking at the D corps of Philly with Weber, god that is just dirty good, it's almost pretty much the best ****ing D corps in the NHL with Weber added to it if Nashy doesn't match.
It's good, and better than last year, but it's still not the best.

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07-19-2012, 10:03 PM
  #156
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Not looking to burst the Nashville folks bubble but this contract has a NMC clause starting in year two. So all of these scenarios where Nashville pays him for a year and moves him for a better package isn't likely to happen. If he really wants to play in Phila and Nashville matches I can't see him waving his no trade. Nashville either matches and pays him for the forseeable future or the Flyers do the same. Weber signed this because it gets him his money and he either stays in Nashville or goes to the team of his choice. This is why we visited Detroit, San Jose and New York last week. He picked Phila to sign the sheet because he knows he either stays in Nashville or goes to Phila and either way he gets paid. The NMC has been overlooked by most analysts but that is what really hangs Nashville out to dry.
Not looking to burst anyone's bubble, and this has been said 100 times in these threads, but the NMC isn't included when one decides to match only the length + dollar amount.

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07-19-2012, 10:03 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Maybe not. Maybe they keep him for the whole thing. Or, maybe they pay 28M for two seasons and then name their price for a 28 year old Weber signed for another 12 years and due 81M.
I can see either of those scenarios happening. It was trading him after 8 that was simply retarded.

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07-19-2012, 10:04 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
I'd imagine if a trade is worked out on a gentlemanly agreement it includes one of Schenn/Couturier with Coburn/Mez/Schenn (if Brayden is traded) as well as Simmonds/Read, eliminating the need for first round picks.
I wonder if the Schenns and a pair of first rounders gets it done. Pretty sure Philly doesn't want to move Couturier, and pretty sure Simmonds/Read/Voracek as the big piece isn't enough.

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07-19-2012, 10:04 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Assuming Nashville uses Weber has to reach the current cap floor:

Say if Nashville matches, they will pay him 14m this season, and 13m in one calendar year from now, which means 1m over the 2nd season.

If they then trade him, they won't pay 1m over the 2nd season, but have to take on players whom they will have to pay about 10m in order to reach the floor. So if they trade Weber, they need to reach the floor again and will have to pay again when they could keep Weber for 1m over the season. Why does Nashville trade him next year? Do I have it wrong?
Well to reach the cap floor they would just need to make up the 7.85 they have on Weber's cap hit. I'd imagine they would take on an expiring contract with firsts and roster players.

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07-19-2012, 10:05 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
It's you.
so Webber is worth 6 1sts or something?? lols or 4 1sts Couturier+Pronger?? yeah, no...

and not even Crosby will earn 14 million for 1 year....so yeah, no again..

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07-19-2012, 10:05 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Sure it is because they still have to get to the cap floor. Paying Suter and Weber 15M+ is 15M+ in cap hits. Paying Weber 14M + a kid 1M is only 8M in cap hits and you need to pay another 7M to reach the same cap hit. So in reality, you have to pay 22M in payroll for the same 15M in cap hits.
Not to mention at least the potential of a lockout where they'd still have to pay him $26m in bonus money even if there is no season. That's where they could run into very serious problems.

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07-19-2012, 10:06 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I wonder if the Schenns and a pair of first rounders gets it done. Pretty sure Philly doesn't want to move Couturier, and pretty sure Simmonds/Read/Voracek as the big piece isn't enough.
If I'm Philly I would much rather lose four first rounders then that type of young talent.

Give me developed proven youth over potential in late 1st rders every single day

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07-19-2012, 10:06 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
No, I didn't gloss over it. In fact, I mentioned it several times in the last few pages. Nashville was prepared to pay, starting this year, 15M+ a year for Weber and Suter. From a budget perspective, that's NO different than paying Weber 14M and a kid on an ELC 1M.
Did they budget for a possible lockout and losing additional revenue from home games possibly not being played? Another major factor to include in this. Every dollar counts.

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07-19-2012, 10:06 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
I'd imagine if a trade is worked out on a gentlemanly agreement it includes one of Schenn/Couturier with Coburn/Mez/Schenn (if Brayden is traded) as well as Simmonds/Read, eliminating the need for first round picks.
If the Flyers were willing to do that, there wouldn't have been a need for an offer sheet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I wonder if the Schenns and a pair of first rounders gets it done. Pretty sure Philly doesn't want to move Couturier, and pretty sure Simmonds/Read/Voracek as the big piece isn't enough.
If Nashville can't match, why would the Flyers up their offer from 4 1sts to Schenn/Schenn and 2 firsts?

If Nashville can match, it's all a moot point.

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07-19-2012, 10:06 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
so Webber is worth 6 1sts or something?? lols or 4 1sts Couturier+Pronger?? yeah, no...

and not even Crosby will earn 14 million for 1 year....so yeah, no again..
Not sure you didn't realize that the value of a first rounder depends on the value of the team. Aka how good the team is, makes the picks not worth much....

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07-19-2012, 10:07 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
they should probably just match and then trade him to Philly for some 1sts + roster players.

No way is losing Weber for JUST picks anything good...

2013 1st
2014 1st
Matt Read
Sean Couturier
Kimmo Timonen
HAHAHA!!! You think Philly would do that eh? Take back 2 1st rounders of players in 3 and 4 years for 3 roster players. Um...nope. Couts himself is worth 2 1st that should be in the 20+ range. And no...can't have him either I would do Mez for the 2014 pick. Replaces your roster spot and you have 3 1sts to offer other teams for a player or 2.

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07-19-2012, 10:07 PM
  #167
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If the Flyers were willing to do that, there wouldn't have been a need for an offer sheet.
They didn't want to give up both Couts and B. Schenn. I'm sure they would work around something I just proposed.

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07-19-2012, 10:08 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I wonder if the Schenns and a pair of first rounders gets it done. Pretty sure Philly doesn't want to move Couturier, and pretty sure Simmonds/Read/Voracek as the big piece isn't enough.
Poile was asking for Schenn and/or Couturier yesterday. Wasn't happening, hence the offer sheet. If they weren't traded before the offer sheet was extended, they sure as hell won't be traded after.

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07-19-2012, 10:08 PM
  #169
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It's good, and better than last year, but it's still not the best.
I'm going to go make that topic somewhere else, that'll be good for discussion.

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07-19-2012, 10:08 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by ShutDownDefense View Post
Looking at the D corps of Philly with Weber, god that is just dirty good, it's almost pretty much the best ****ing D corps in the NHL with Weber added to it if Nashy doesn't match.
Not even close. I'd take NYR's defense pretty easily.

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07-19-2012, 10:09 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Nucks N Canes View Post
Not sure you didn't realize that the value of a first rounder depends on the value of the team. Aka how good the team is, makes the picks not worth much....
Indeed Philly's 1st won't be the same as receiving the Islanders, but this essentially means that Nashville will have 2 1st round picks for 4 years, I'm sorry but that's just freggin awesome, specially for a perennial winner at the draft like Nashville

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07-19-2012, 10:09 PM
  #172
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I can see either of those scenarios happening. It was trading him after 8 that was simply retarded.
Only reason I thought it was possible: At 34, he'll still be awesome, but his skills will be waning. And, with that contract, he'll have added value to other cash strapped teams that struggle to get to the floor. Retarded may be a little strong. I lean towards traded after the 2013-2014 season or a lifer as most probable.

Then again, it's important to remember that Poile could move him any time he wants after the 2013-2014 season. I think he'll have a dozen GM's who tell him 'any time you want the mega offer, let us know'.

I think you'll agree with this: In terms of the budget, Nashville can cover it given what they were prepared to lay out combined for Weber and Suter. Issue is cash flow given the lump sum payments, but, if they can work around that, what Poile could get for Weber, with that remaining contract, after the 2013-2014 season is probably 50%+ more than what he was asking of the Flyers now.

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07-19-2012, 10:10 PM
  #173
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If the Flyers were willing to do that, there wouldn't have been a need for an offer sheet.
I actually think Philly did the offer sheet not because they didn't think the trade wouldn't happen but because they were worried another team would offer better. Now they have exclusive trading rights with Nashville so to speak. So if the price does get out of hand they can walk away and hope Nashville can't match. But even if Nashville matchs they have kept Weber away from both Rangers and Pens for a year. Whereas Pens/Rangers could have outbid Flyers today and landed Weber for this year...

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07-19-2012, 10:10 PM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panteras View Post
so Webber is worth 6 1sts or something?? lols or 4 1sts Couturier+Pronger?? yeah, no...

and not even Crosby will earn 14 million for 1 year....so yeah, no again..
He's worth far more than 4 25-30th overall picks, that's for sure. Those picks are longshots to hit Shea Weber's skill level combined. The contract is structured like the majority of mega deals, front loaded. For example, Parise and Suter are both making 12 million for the next two years.

Come to think of it, Philly may have offered this exact same contract to Suter and Parise...

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07-19-2012, 10:11 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Poile was asking for Schenn and/or Couturier yesterday. Wasn't happening, hence the offer sheet. If they weren't traded before the offer sheet was extended, they sure as hell won't be traded after.
I thought it was Schenn AND Couturier.

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