HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Sens/Bruins Proposals

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-11-2005, 10:14 PM
  #26
HuskyFlames
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bileur
Better PPG than Iggy too. I see where you are going and up until now Samsonov has had better playoff #s but Sammy has better linemates and more ice-time as well as more experience that has to matter. If you're trying to say Havlat is bad in the playoffs thats just wrong. Havlat's playoff production will rise with experience.

I agree that Samsonov has been great in the playoffs.
#1 I never said havlat was bad in the playoffs.

#2 You say Sammy has more experience and better linemates. Explain to me how he was more than a PPG player his FIRST playoff season back when he was around 20 years old.

HuskyFlames is offline  
Old
01-11-2005, 10:23 PM
  #27
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
#1 I never said havlat was bad in the playoffs.

#2 You say Sammy has more experience and better linemates. Explain to me how he was more than a PPG player his FIRST playoff season back when he was around 20 years old.

Played LW with Allison & Khristich (19 points), the only line to do anything in the series.
Other 9 forwards on the team = 5 points total.

trentmccleary is offline  
Old
01-11-2005, 10:24 PM
  #28
Bileur
Registered User
 
Bileur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
#1 I never said havlat was bad in the playoffs.
Sorry, I took it wrong then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
#2 You say Sammy has more experience and better linemates. Explain to me how he was more than a PPG player his FIRST playoff season back when he was around 20 years old.
Maybe because like I said he's been great in the playoffs.

I'd like to answer it but your question cant be answered for two reasons:
1. I dont remember who he played with in 1997-1998, do you?
(I now see, thanks to trent, that Allison and Khristich were his linemates they were quite good)
2. There does not seem to be any ice time stats before 1998-1999.

You dont beleive that experience helps players develop?

(*edit* I just read trent's post)

Bileur is offline  
Old
01-11-2005, 10:29 PM
  #29
HuskyFlames
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,671
vCash: 500
You can't honestly say that Havlat plays with 3rd line scrubs do you? He has solid linemates and top guys when he's on the PP. This is gonna turn into another "Havlat is the best and has the most value in the entire league" thread again.

HuskyFlames is offline  
Old
01-11-2005, 10:31 PM
  #30
Bileur
Registered User
 
Bileur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
You can't honestly say that Havlat plays with 3rd line scrubs do you? He has solid linemates and top guys when he's on the PP. This is gonna turn into another "Havlat is the best and has the most value in the entire league" thread again.
So the 3-4 minutes on the PP make the diffrence.
Sammy's linemates are better, period.

Nobody ever said that about Havlat.

Bileur is offline  
Old
01-11-2005, 10:33 PM
  #31
bert
Registered User
 
bert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,437
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
The only way Havlat is better than Sammy is when Sammy is injured. Stop being a homer.

yeah.................. common

How about you watch them.

bert is offline  
Old
01-11-2005, 11:10 PM
  #32
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
You can't honestly say that Havlat plays with 3rd line scrubs do you? He has solid linemates and top guys when he's on the PP. This is gonna turn into another "Havlat is the best and has the most value in the entire league" thread again.
Was there some sort of differentiation that you were going to make here?

Were you going to say that Ottawa's PP of:
Havlat (*)- Bonk- Hossa & Redden- Alfie (*)
was much better than Boston's PP of
Samsonov-Thornton-Murray & Slegr-Gonchar... (or Allison, Khristich/Guerin & Bourque as had been the case when Samsonov first started).

You'll also notice that the Ottawa PP has (*), while the Bruins PP does not. That's because the Bruins PP is composed entirely of players playing their natural positions. So you can argue that Havlat has some sort of advantage, even though he plays the opposite wing and Samsonov plays his natural position on their respective PP's.

Also, in his 1st 4 years... Havlat has tied or surpassed every season that Samsonov had put up until the same point.

trentmccleary is offline  
Old
01-11-2005, 11:21 PM
  #33
trenton1
Paille Good
 
trenton1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Loge 31 Row 10
Country: Belize
Posts: 7,033
vCash: 500
Samsonov and Havlat are of nearly equal skill. When Havlat is on he's like a scoring machine but I've also seen him get thrown off his game and become quite the hacker when things aren't going his way or he is hit too often. Samsonov hasn't been as high profile the last couple of years but not too many guys will play with as much night in and night out passion as Samsonov. His skills are great but his respect for the game and his honest effort is really a treat to watch. That is one category that Havlat will never have him beat on because few guys in the league do. Samsonov has had this maturity since age 19 when he broke in so it is not neccesarily an age thing on that issue. I would still say he's a hidden gem in the NHL that Boston hides well by jettisoning talented linemates of his every year. Allison, Samsonov and Guerin was as good a line as the league had in 2000-01. And one season later Sergei was playing with fricken Jozef Stumpel. Last spring he had Michael Nylander and they lit it up. But Nylander will be a Ranger when play resumes. I guess I should be thankful that Sergei hasn't just demanded a trade out of Boston yet. But then again that's why I like Sergei...because he won't do that. He's quite honorable and loyal, perhaps to a fault. In the end I think each team has a great asset and there would be no point to trading them for one another. Despite the lousy playoffs Thornton is still a guy who can put up 100 points in the modern NHL...there's something to be said for that....so how about throwing in Jody Hull :lol

trenton1 is offline  
Old
01-11-2005, 11:49 PM
  #34
doc5hole
Registered User
 
doc5hole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 4,627
vCash: 500
Sammy was Rookie of the Year in 97-98 and then a near-30-goal guy until the injury year (02-03), and even that year he was torrid until going out of the lineup. Back for the playoff vs. NJ, he wasn't ready. Last year was actually the first year that skews his production trend, but remember that the Bruins entered the '03 playoffs having allowed more goals than any other team. Mike Sullivan, from back to front, changed the style of play in 03-04 to more of what Anaheim and NJ did to reach the '03 final. It didn't pay off in the playoffs, but Thornton's scoring was down and so was Samsonov's. Plus, Sammy had no regular skilled center to work with last season. He was probably the Bruins' best forward in the playoffs. If he rejoins Thornton, he'll score 40 goals for sure. If not, it depends on who centers his line. O'Connell loves this kid so he's not going anywhere.

doc5hole is offline  
Old
01-12-2005, 12:16 AM
  #35
trentmccleary
Registered User
 
trentmccleary's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Alfie-Ville
Posts: 18,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by trenton1
so how about throwing in Jody Hull :lol
Bit of useless trivia, but before Tampa and Ottawa had ever hit the ice in 92-93... they had Hull and Gretzky in their trainings camps. Unfortunately, they were Jody and Brent.
(Hull being a big name back then with the 72 & 86 & 70 goal seasons in the 3 years before expansion)

trentmccleary is offline  
Old
01-12-2005, 02:16 AM
  #36
Safir*
 
Safir*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Country: Turkmenistan
Posts: 13,959
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHLCommish
#1:

To Boston: Martin Havlat

To Ottawa: Andrew Raycroft

Reasoning: No way Hasek is the guy to lead the Sens to the cup, especially now that he is one year older. When the NHL finally resumes Toivonen should be ready, and apparently has more potential than Raycroft. Andrew, a great young #1 netminder could give the Sens a solid future in net for a long time

#2

To Boston: Spezza, Havlat

To Ottawa: Thornton, Samsonov

Reasoning: If you believe the Sens need a scoring winger on LW, Samsonov would be a good fit. Thornton is 25, in the prime of his career, brings the physical dimension the Sens seem to lack, and can bring an immediate presence, while Spezza may be a bit behind in development. Bruins get two young, premier talents.
#1: No way!

#2: Intriguing, but I have to say that I prefer both Spezza and Havlat in Ottawa. Samsonov is smaller, older & more expensive than Havlat. Thornton makes to much money and has played weak in the playoffs. Both Sens makes less money and are younger.

Safir* is offline  
Old
01-12-2005, 08:09 AM
  #37
X0ssbar
 
X0ssbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: ...on a star!
Country: United States
Posts: 13,011
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BHLCommish
#1:

To Boston: Martin Havlat

To Ottawa: Andrew Raycroft

Reasoning: No way Hasek is the guy to lead the Sens to the cup, especially now that he is one year older. When the NHL finally resumes Toivonen should be ready, and apparently has more potential than Raycroft. Andrew, a great young #1 netminder could give the Sens a solid future in net for a long time

#2

To Boston: Spezza, Havlat

To Ottawa: Thornton, Samsonov

Reasoning: If you believe the Sens need a scoring winger on LW, Samsonov would be a good fit. Thornton is 25, in the prime of his career, brings the physical dimension the Sens seem to lack, and can bring an immediate presence, while Spezza may be a bit behind in development. Bruins get two young, premier talents.
Some well though out interesting proposals BHLCommish - nice work. I think both trades are doable (maybe a 3rd/4th round draft pick in addition to Raycroft on the 1st deal) and address needs on both sides.

X0ssbar is offline  
Old
01-12-2005, 08:59 AM
  #38
MojoJojo
Registered User
 
MojoJojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Like I said, a HEALTHY Sammy.
Thats almost like proposing a trade for a healthy Allison.

MojoJojo is offline  
Old
01-12-2005, 09:59 AM
  #39
HuskyFlames
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo
Thats almost like proposing a trade for a healthy Allison.
Not even close. One plays in the NHL and was explosive in the playoffs, the other hasn't even touched the ice.

HuskyFlames is offline  
Old
01-12-2005, 01:11 PM
  #40
Pure Slaughter Value
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 2,060
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Pure Slaughter Value
I'd pick Thornton/Samsonov over Spezza/Havlat almost every time. I personally like players that can cycle down low and play in front of the slot. Haven't really seen that from Spezza yet and Havlat (the little goal-hanging fiend) hasn't impressed me that much inside the faceoff circles.

That being said, Spezza's very young and has done nothing yet though has the talent to do so, so he kinda gets a pass from me. As someone mentioned before, Havlat gets thrown off his game easily and becomes useless on the ice at times. He tempers himself and becomes more consistent with his overall play and he could be much better than Samsonov.

Depends on what you want center-wise. I'll take the power forward who plants himself in front of the net 9 times out of 10, rather than take the playmaker who cycles high.

Interesting trade idea, I'll grant that.

Pure Slaughter Value is offline  
Old
01-12-2005, 08:04 PM
  #41
SensGod
Registered User
 
SensGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotia Bank Place
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SensGod
Dunno on these...I'm a little torn.

screw it...let's talk Bonyton and Bergeron!


SensGod is offline  
Old
01-12-2005, 08:08 PM
  #42
SensGod
Registered User
 
SensGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotia Bank Place
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SensGod
What could we get from the Bruins for Havlat and Emery? Raycroft and ????

SensGod is offline  
Old
01-13-2005, 12:15 AM
  #43
Bileur
Registered User
 
Bileur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
Dunno on these...I'm a little torn.

screw it...let's talk Bonyton and Bergeron!


exactly what I was thinking.

Bileur is offline  
Old
01-13-2005, 09:28 AM
  #44
Sting
Registered User
 
Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,101
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Sting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure Slaughter Value
I'd pick Thornton/Samsonov over Spezza/Havlat almost every time. I personally like players that can cycle down low and play in front of the slot. Haven't really seen that from Spezza yet and Havlat (the little goal-hanging fiend) hasn't impressed me that much inside the faceoff circles.

That being said, Spezza's very young and has done nothing yet though has the talent to do so, so he kinda gets a pass from me. As someone mentioned before, Havlat gets thrown off his game easily and becomes useless on the ice at times. He tempers himself and becomes more consistent with his overall play and he could be much better than Samsonov.

Depends on what you want center-wise. I'll take the power forward who plants himself in front of the net 9 times out of 10, rather than take the playmaker who cycles high.

Interesting trade idea, I'll grant that.
Right now I'd agree...Thornton/Samsonov are better than Spezza/Havlat. I would much rather have a Havlat than a Samsonov on my team, though. I've noticed Samsonov shy away from physical play at times (Waits for someone to say WHAT??!?!...but it's true), whereas Havlat is always right in there.

Spezza is a different player right now, though. He's dominating the AHL and when he brings that new game of his to the NHL, I think a lot of people will change their minds about him.

Sting is offline  
Old
01-13-2005, 10:02 AM
  #45
VeddarRants
HEART AND SOUL
 
VeddarRants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 12,599
vCash: 500
No to both... why would two rival teams in the same division look to trade with one another, especially trading around key pieces of their team?

VeddarRants is offline  
Old
01-13-2005, 04:12 PM
  #46
BronxBruin
Registered User
 
BronxBruin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bronx, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,790
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
What could we get from the Bruins for Havlat and Emery? Raycroft and ????
I don't really see why the Bruins would want Emery. The only reason they would be trading Raycroft is because they feel Toivonen is ready to take over as the #1. So they don't really have a need for Emery.

Just for the hell of it, I'd propose:

Raycroft + Hilbert
for
Havlat

BronxBruin is offline  
Old
01-13-2005, 04:15 PM
  #47
SensGod
Registered User
 
SensGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotia Bank Place
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SensGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by BronxBruin
I don't really see why the Bruins would want Emery. The only reason they would be trading Raycroft is because they feel Toivonen is ready to take over as the #1. So they don't really have a need for Emery.

Just for the hell of it, I'd propose:

Raycroft + Hilbert
for
Havlat
Dude...you misspelled "Bergeron"

SensGod is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.