HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Oilers re-sign Sam Gagner (1yr/$3.2M)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-27-2012, 02:06 PM
  #301
joestevens29
Registered User
 
joestevens29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,247
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
That's a pretty baseless assumption.



I can't figure out why 50 points is some kind of magic marker for people. Guess they like round numbers?



He was 6th among forwards in PP TOI/G last year by a hair. Unless Horcoff keeps eating up PP minutes, he should get more PP time, not less.

I mean, does it need to be pointed out that last season was Gagner's best as an Oiler? Best +/-/60, best PPG, best FO%. Doesn't seem like stagnating to me.
That and Voracek was barely a top 6 in PHI.

Voracek also had the 2nd highest PPtoi/g time on PHI last year as a forward. That going to happen again?

joestevens29 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 03:44 PM
  #302
oiler-dude
Registered User
 
oiler-dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
Voracek was also a legitimate top 6 forward on a very good Philly team scoring at nearly PPG pace in this year's play-offs. Gagner would have been burried down Philly's depth chart. Let's see if Gagner can produce 50 points this season. I am not convinced he will match his rookie point total without much PP time, even playing with Hemsky and Yakupov in a top 6 role.
He had but 2pts less than his rookie year in 4 games less than he played that season (and 7 shy of a full year). You honestly don't think he has 2 more points in him than this season?

oiler-dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 03:59 PM
  #303
cheesed-off*
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Under your skin...
Posts: 3,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
I really can not think of two more comparable players than these 2 in almost every way.
Except only one of them looks like Chelsea Clinton...

cheesed-off* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 05:34 PM
  #304
Psycho Dad
Oil Kings
 
Psycho Dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sherwood Park
Posts: 10,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9GWG9 View Post
Simple math really...

47 points in 75 games vs 54 in 77 games.

Not really sure what is so funny? Are you saying you would be happy to pay a player 7 mil who only put up 54 points last year?

my turn.... : laugh:
My turn!

Quote:
Alexander Semin
Right Wing
Born Mar 3 1984 -- Krasnojarsk, Russia
Height 6.02 -- Weight 208

Selected by Washington Capitals round 1 #13 overall 2002 NHL Entry Draft

--- Regular Season --- ---- Playoffs ----
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2002-03 Tolyatti Lada Russi 47 10 7 17 36 10 5 3 8 10
2003-04 Washington Capitals NHL 52 10 12 22 36 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Portland Pirates AHL 4 3 1 4 6 7 4 7 11 19
2004-05 Tolyatti Lada Russi 50 19 11 30 54 10 1 1 2 0
2005-06 Tolyatti Lada Russi 16 5 4 9 52 -- -- -- -- --
2005-06 Mytishchi Khimik Russi 26 3 7 10 26 8 3 2 5 6
2006-07 Washington Capitals NHL 77 38 35 73 90 -- -- -- -- --
2007-08 Washington Capitals NHL 63 26 16 42 54 7 3 5 8 8
2008-09 Washington Capitals NHL 62 34 45 79 77 14 5 9 14 16
2009-10 Washington Capitals NHL 73 40 44 84 66 7 0 2 2 4
2010-11 Washington Capitals NHL 65 28 26 54 71 9 4 2 6 8
2011-12 Washington Capitals NHL 77 21 33 54 56 14 3 1 4 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NHL Totals 469 197 211 408 450 51 15 19 34 46
Quote:
Sam Gagner
Center
Born Aug 10 1989 -- London, ONT
Height 5.10 -- Weight 191 -- Shoots R


Selected by Edmonton Oilers round 1 #6 overall 2007 NHL Entry Draft

--- Regular Season --- ---- Playoffs ----
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2004-05 Milton Icehawks OPJHL 13 5 10 15 10
2005-06 Sioux City Musketeers USHL 56 11 35 46 60 -- -- -- -- --
2006-07 London Knights OHL 53 35 83 118 36 16 7 22 29 22
2007-08 Edmonton Oilers NHL 79 13 36 49 23 -- -- -- -- --
2008-09 Edmonton Oilers NHL 76 16 25 41 51 -- -- -- -- --
2009-10 Edmonton Oilers NHL 68 15 26 41 33 -- -- -- -- --
2010-11 Edmonton Oilers NHL 68 15 27 42 37 -- -- -- -- --
2011-12 Edmonton Oilers NHL 75 18 29 47 36 -- -- -- -- --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NHL Totals 366 77 143 220 180

Psycho Dad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 05:57 PM
  #305
CupofOil
Registered User
 
CupofOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rock Bottom
Country: United States
Posts: 13,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skm View Post
How? They have had mirrored production over almost their entire careers. Both are softish, second-tier offensive players.
Voracek is quite simply a better player. He's bigger, stronger, faster and better defensively.
That's a solid contract for him and would be an overpay for Gagner.

CupofOil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 06:04 PM
  #306
tiger_80
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,533
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
That and Voracek was barely a top 6 in PHI.

Voracek also had the 2nd highest PPtoi/g time on PHI last year as a forward. That going to happen again?
Well, Voracek just got a 16.8M 4 year contract from a good team that has no problem attracting free agents. If Gagner is as good as advertized in this thread, why did not the Oilers give him the contract Flyers gave to Voracek? Well, from where I sit, the answer is obvious, they do not consider him as reliable a player as Flyers consider Voracek whatever the stats.

tiger_80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 06:39 PM
  #307
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermullet View Post
My turn!
looks the same to me

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 09:50 PM
  #308
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
He was 6th among forwards in PP TOI/G last year by a hair. Unless Horcoff keeps eating up PP minutes, he should get more PP time, not less.

I mean, does it need to be pointed out that last season was Gagner's best as an Oiler? Best +/-/60, best PPG, best FO%. Doesn't seem like stagnating to me.
Why would Gagner be moved up to the top PP unit ahead of Yakupov? Hell make a case for him to play there over Smyth or *gulp* Horcoff? He is not a net presence, nor is he a better offensive player than Eberle, Hall, Nail, or RNH up front.

As for this last season being Gagner's best, it may have been in a number of metrics, however with the exception of about 5 games last year I haven't seen the same Gagner that I saw in his rookie year, creative, exceptional passing, etc. He looked slightly stronger and quicker, but through it all there's still a LOT of work to be done if he wants to be part of the long term plans here IMO.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 09:55 PM
  #309
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Voracek is quite simply a better player. He's bigger, stronger, faster and better defensively.
That's a solid contract for him and would be an overpay for Gagner.
Point totals in relation to other centers seems to be the main metric that some use to pump Gagner's tires. I remember people saying that he outscored Mike Richards last year, now let's see a show of hands, who would rather have Gagner on their team than Mike Richards? If Gagner had some Mike Richards or Mike Peca in his game we wouldn't give a rip that he hasn't topped 50 points. He doesn't, he is a one way forward that needs to be a lot more productive to warrant his spot in our lineup. RNH at 18 was already the better defensive player of the two.

Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 10:05 PM
  #310
9GWG9
Registered User
 
9GWG9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermullet View Post
My turn!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post
looks the same to me
So if you had to resign Horcoff after the 08 season you would give him the same money per year he is currently making.

I didn't think so.

9GWG9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2012, 10:27 PM
  #311
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9GWG9 View Post
So if you had to resign Horcoff after the 08 season you would give him the same money per year he is currently making.

I didn't think so.



because that has everything to do with Semin being a multiple 70+ point elite offensive player, and Gagner being a 40 point very average player.

I didn't think so.

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 01:43 AM
  #312
dnicks17
Moderator
.
 
dnicks17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,688
vCash: 500
Last season is where Semin's similarity to Gagner's production starts and ends.

Semin's best season is over twice the PPG of Gagner's best season. He had three seasons where he registered(or was on pace for) at least 40 goals. In 09/10, Semin had 1 less goal than Gagner had points.

dnicks17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 09:50 AM
  #313
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,035
vCash: 500
Its not like you can really even argue that Gagner is a much better fighter.


nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 11:23 AM
  #314
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,272
vCash: 7000

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 12:23 PM
  #315
nabob
Hall for captain
 
nabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: HF boards
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,035
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Semin is scared of contact.

nabob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 01:33 PM
  #316
nexttothemoon
Eight Straight
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,934
vCash: 50
Not sure how this came to be a Gagner vs Semin discussion as they are totally different players... Gagner is all-world heart and limited skills, Semin is all-world skill and no heart.

Gagner at half the price of Semin? I'll take that deal. Semin will get more points than Gagner but be AWOL as well at times when you may need him the most. Gagner at least will be there doing his damnedest with his 40-49 points year in and year out like clockwork. Sammy isn't the best but he's all we've got for a #2C man until better is found elsewhere or developed in-house.

Semin wasn't even an option... a heartless winger that brings no intangibles beyond a scoring touch isn't something they needed at all.

nexttothemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 02:08 PM
  #317
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,272
vCash: 7000
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Not sure how this came to be a Gagner vs Semin discussion as they are totally different players... Gagner is all-world heart and limited skills, Semin is all-world skill and no heart.

Gagner at half the price of Semin? I'll take that deal. Semin will get more points than Gagner but be AWOL as well at times when you may need him the most. Gagner at least will be there doing his damnedest with his 40-49 points year in and year out like clockwork. Sammy isn't the best but he's all we've got for a #2C man until better is found elsewhere or developed in-house.

Semin wasn't even an option... a heartless winger that brings no intangibles beyond a scoring touch isn't something they needed at all.

Gagner has long stretches of games with zero pts. He goes AWOL quite often. Did I mention that he falls down a lot?

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 02:13 PM
  #318
Seedling
Fan level 7?
 
Seedling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,533
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Gagner has long stretches of games with zero pts. He goes AWOL quite often. Did I mention that he falls down a lot?
Truth.

Seedling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 03:06 PM
  #319
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Gagner has long stretches of games with zero pts. He goes AWOL quite often. Did I mention that he falls down a lot?
For all of the talk of his improvement last year there were far too many games where he had nothing going when we DESPERATELY needed secondary scoring. To be fair this wasn't his problem alone, but he is an offense first kind of a player and he should be one of the guys that creates for his less offensive linemates.

Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 03:43 PM
  #320
Seedling
Fan level 7?
 
Seedling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,533
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
For all of the talk of his improvement last year there were far too many games where he had nothing going when we DESPERATELY needed secondary scoring. To be fair this wasn't his problem alone, but he is an offense first kind of a player and he should be one of the guys that creates for his less offensive linemates.
Yes he SHOULD be. One year to prove he can.

Seedling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 03:50 PM
  #321
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,272
vCash: 7000
He will only be 28 with ten years in the league.

People are so quick to judge.

You need to give him some more time.

Tim Thomas never became a starter until he was 32 and won the Vezina at 37.

We dont want to give up on Sammy, and then he goes somewhere else and wins the Art Ross.

I am the Liquor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 03:52 PM
  #322
Philly85
Moody'
 
Philly85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 12,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
That is embarrassing, I don't remember that.

Philly85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 03:52 PM
  #323
dixs35
Registered User
 
dixs35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: E-town
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,456
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
He will only be 28 with ten years in the league.

People are so quick to judge.

You need to give him some more time.

Tim Thomas never became a starter until he was 32 and won the Vezina at 37.

We dont want to give up on Sammy, and then he goes somewhere else and wins the Art Ross.
at first I was and then I realized it was

dixs35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 03:54 PM
  #324
9GWG9
Registered User
 
9GWG9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nabob View Post


because that has everything to do with Semin being a multiple 70+ point elite offensive player, and Gagner being a 40 point very average player.

I didn't think so.
I will give you Gagner being a 40+ point player but I could also say that semin is a 50 point player with three above average seasons.

I guess we will see wont we.

9GWG9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2012, 03:57 PM
  #325
CupofOil
Registered User
 
CupofOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rock Bottom
Country: United States
Posts: 13,705
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9GWG9 View Post
I will give you Gagner being a 40+ point player but I could also say that semin is a 50 point player with three above average seasons.

I guess we will see wont we.
Huh? Gagner IS a 40+ player, you're not giving anything and Semin's "above average" seasons destroy anything that Gagner has ever done.
You are sinking fast with that comparison.

CupofOil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.