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Oilers re-sign Sam Gagner (1yr/$3.2M)

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Old
07-20-2012, 12:46 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Timo View Post
Here's a crazy thought; What if Sam has an exception season and we extend him for good money for 5 years and he continues to grow with the team and everyone is happy in the end?

I'm asking too much of HF right now...
I think thats fair comment and I'm engaging in a lot of speculation but I don't see it turning out much different.

The Oilers have a way of tipping their hat.

They hand Dubnyk a multi year 3.5M contract apparently as a first offer, which it took the Dubnyk camp seconds to agree to. Devyn probably wet himself like he won the lottery. This all occurring on the basis of what Dubnyk might be rather than what he's done at this level.

Next, they string Gagner out like this and all the way into the arbitration hearing room before finally settling for less with a proven Gagner, than an unproven Dubnyk. If this isn't a slap in the face and we don't value you at all moment, then I don't know what is.

So you're saying the same club that devalued Gagner and put him through this entire process would do an about face and would suddenly value him and pay him 5M?

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I think Gagner in this year will exceed that which this org would be willing to pay for his services.

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07-20-2012, 12:50 PM
  #127
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Exactly.

I'm not sure if the Gagner camp we're giving in to the "its bad to go all the way to arbitration" They did that anyway and it went 11th hour. I don't see optics being any different.

Theres been a signal here from both sides.

From the Oiler its "you're not in our plan Sam."

From Gagner camp "We'll look at our best options and continue to do so"


Neither side committing to Sam being here. This will make for some odd moments and decisions in the coming year.

On the first point it does not mean that at all. It means that Sam needs to convince the team that he is the right player to be in the long term plan. If he does he will be offered a long term deal. If he does not he will be traded.

On the second point.... duh. Every player does that every contract.

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07-20-2012, 12:51 PM
  #128
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Disagree.

It just doesn't happen here. With this management especially.

This is not a club that drives trade value, and this is not necessarily a league that gives it.


The Oilers seem to think that this is Win Win, That Gagner increases trade value. But without realizing that they just aren't any good at horsetrading in the first place.

Any time this org sets the table for trading a good player for any beans they can get I'm doing a facepalm.

If traded Sam Gagner will be of greater value somewhere else than what we get in return.

You could mark that one down.
They haven't had an opportunity to trade a player with increased value too often because most of the players in the Tambellini area have failed so now, with as much talent in the top 6 as they have had in a long time, Gagner is in a position to succeed and drive up his value.
It's pretty clear by these short term deals that they have been giving him and by the rumors of Gagner being on the trading block that they don't see him as a long term solution and probably rightly so.

So IMO, i think that they weren't able to trade him for a good enough deal and are banking on him showing some improvements this season so that he becomes a more valuable trade piece and if he doesn't improve this season (which would be really pathetic) then they could revisit this again in the offseason because this deal only takes him into another RFA year. I think it's a smart move.

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07-20-2012, 12:53 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Well, I don't trust this org to capitalize on value in trade so we're disagreed on a move being good.
I don't trust them any further than I could throw them...but...at least they recognize Gagner isn't looking like a long term neccesity here.

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07-20-2012, 12:53 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I think thats fair comment and I'm engaging in a lot of speculation but I don't see it turning out much different.

The Oilers have a way of tipping their hat.

They hand Dubnyk a multi year 3.5M contract apparently as a first offer, which it took the Dubnyk camp seconds to agree to. Devyn probably wet himself like he won the lottery. This all occurring on the basis of what Dubnyk might be rather than what he's done at this level.

Next, they string Gagner out like this and all the way into the arbitration hearing room before finally settling for less with a proven Gagner, than an unproven Dubnyk. If this isn't a slap in the face and we don't value you at all moment, then I don't know what is.

So you're saying the same club that devalued Gagner and put him through this entire process would do an about face and would suddenly value him and pay him 5M?

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I think Gagner in this year will exceed that which this org would be willing to pay for his services.
It isnt. How do you know what the Gagner camp was asking for? Maybe they wanted 5 Mil a year? If that is the case there is a reason it took so long and that reason is not to slap him in the face.

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07-20-2012, 12:56 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
So when Gagner puts up 50 points again next year, do we give him another 2 year deal? I thought he would have signed around 3.8-4m a year over 5 years similar to the oshie contract.
The Gagner camp is banking getting north of 50 points. The Oilers are not going to want to pay for that yet. Solution, one year deal.

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07-20-2012, 12:57 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I think thats fair comment and I'm engaging in a lot of speculation but I don't see it turning out much different.

The Oilers have a way of tipping their hat.

They hand Dubnyk a multi year 3.5M contract apparently as a first offer, which it took the Dubnyk camp seconds to agree to. Devyn probably wet himself like he won the lottery. This all occurring on the basis of what Dubnyk might be rather than what he's done at this level.

Next, they string Gagner out like this and all the way into the arbitration hearing room before finally settling for less with a proven Gagner, than an unproven Dubnyk. If this isn't a slap in the face and we don't value you at all moment, then I don't know what is.

So you're saying the same club that devalued Gagner and put him through this entire process would do an about face and would suddenly value him and pay him 5M?

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I think Gagner in this year will exceed that which this org would be willing to pay for his services.
The Oilers dragged poor, unappreciated, innocent Sam Gagner to the arbitration room? It was player-elected arbitration.

And even if they handed Dubnyk an overly generous offer, then I don't want them to repeat the mistake with Gagner. If they want to negotiate the best deal for the team then what's the problem?

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07-20-2012, 12:57 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
On the first point it does not mean that at all. It means that Sam needs to convince the team that he is the right player to be in the long term plan. If he does he will be offered a long term deal. If he does not he will be traded.

On the second point.... duh. Every player does that every contract.
Funny how Dubnyk didn't need to convince the team. At all.

Gagner did everything asked of him here for 5yrs under terrible playing conditions and never complained.

Dubnyk plays a limited set of games and he wins the lottery.

Apparent unsolved mystery: Put Gagner with players that are good and going and points materialize. Bury him in the lineup and production gets stifled.

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07-20-2012, 12:59 PM
  #134
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I would have liked long term, he is no super star but he has a great attitude and work ethic. It will cost more after this year, oh well, as long as we still have his rights after next year, good deal.

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07-20-2012, 01:00 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
They haven't had an opportunity to trade a player with increased value too often because most of the players in the Tambellini area have failed so now, with as much talent in the top 6 as they have had in a long time, Gagner is in a position to succeed and drive up his value.
It's pretty clear by these short term deals that they have been giving him and by the rumors of Gagner being on the trading block that they don't see him as a long term solution and probably rightly so.

So IMO, i think that they weren't able to trade him for a good enough deal and are banking on him showing some improvements this season so that he becomes a more valuable trade piece and if he doesn't improve this season (which would be really pathetic) then they could revisit this again in the offseason because this deal only takes him into another RFA year. I think it's a smart move.
Dustin Penner ring a bell?

The bolded is interesting btw. Because I have no idea how you think that much different will materialize with this management.


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07-20-2012, 01:01 PM
  #136
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Good deal. Reasonable cap hit, and a one-year term so he'll have to prove his worth this year.

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07-20-2012, 01:03 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
As to the contract I'm confused by it all round.

A one year deal basically confirms Gagner at this point isn't in the plans here.

Barring injury he'll smash his production records, will up his contract cost for next year, and will likely be gone. I don't see how this plays out much differently.

But why would the Gagner camp agree to this when the arbitration award would likely be North of this?
I am not sure if it is true that the arbitration award would have been North of $3.2M.

The list of comparables is pretty restrictive and the arbitrator can easily go either way. Looking at capgeek you can find comparables in any salary range. Here is what I posted in the earlier thread:

Quote:
How about the following comparables for Gagner:

1) Brassard ---$3.2M
2) Hanzal ----- $3.1M
3) Horqvist ---- $3.083M
4) Foligno ---- $3.083M
5) Couture -----$2.875M
6) Okposo ------ $2.8M


It is easier to find examples of comparables around $3M than it is around $3.5-4M. Recent RFA playes near $4M include Giroux, Jordan Staal, Lucic, Perron, Duschene, Bolland.
When I saw what Perron got my first thought is that Gagner might get around the same amount. But in reality it is probably easier to make a case that he sits more in line with the first group of 6 than he does with the players whose salary is over $3.5M. Add in that Perron's deal is for 4 years and that in the first year he is being paid $3M and all of a sudden the risk to Gagner that his deal might be south of $3M al la Couture is actually quite real.

I do agree though that this is a statement that at the very least he has not established a long term role in the eyes of management. Though it does seem the Krueger is a fan.

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07-20-2012, 01:05 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
The Oilers dragged poor, unappreciated, innocent Sam Gagner to the arbitration room? It was player-elected arbitration.

And even if they handed Dubnyk an overly generous offer, then I don't want them to repeat the mistake with Gagner. If they want to negotiate the best deal for the team then what's the problem?
So we reward a committed 5 year player here with a great attitude with this treatment. In full view of everybody. The oil somehow expect that even though they lowballed this player in front of the whole league and made him go to 12th hour arbitration that they can recieve ample return in trade a year later.

sheer brilliance.

The Oilers essentially stated to all this player is not core, this player is not value here.

THIS is how they set the bed for eventual (and I would say inevitable) trade?

Idiots at work.

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07-20-2012, 01:06 PM
  #139
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As to the contract I'm confused by it all round.

A one year deal basically confirms Gagner at this point isn't in the plans here.

Barring injury he'll smash his production records, will up his contract cost for next year, and will likely be gone. I don't see how this plays out much differently.

But why would the Gagner camp agree to this when the arbitration award would likely be North of this?
I think because hes loyal and willing to play on another one year performance contract to prove himself as he has stated in the past. These aren't the type of players you come across everyday. Dedicated to his own growth and committed to the orgs. as well.

I think this contract tells him to perform before he gets rewarded. I agree with how Tambellini structures his players contracts in the sense that they have to prove themselves on a short term basis. Polar opposite to Lowe or someone like Sutter who handcuff themselves. There has to be credit due here.

It's to the teams benefit with the new restructuring of the CBA to likely be in favour of management or the owners. Aside from the retirement contracts.

Contracts need to be performance based and teams need to quit rewarding players on past performance for the rest of the career. That's another animal in itself though.

All that said, based on the contract it looks like Tambo was low balling the whole time. If anything else there will be some other underlying implications such as a difference in term and what arose it and of course the fact that the Oilers aren't convinced he's a fit here yet. I personally think the glass is half full and when he performs this year he better get rewarded.

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07-20-2012, 01:10 PM
  #140
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So who was the guy that heckled Gagner all game during his 8 point night and then never came back to an Oiler game after that?

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07-20-2012, 01:11 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
As to the contract I'm confused by it all round.

A one year deal basically confirms Gagner at this point isn't in the plans here.

Barring injury he'll smash his production records, will up his contract cost for next year, and will likely be gone. I don't see how this plays out much differently.

But why would the Gagner camp agree to this when the arbitration award would likely be North of this?
Maybe they want to keep their arbitration option for his next contract. I believe a player can only take an organization to arbitration once. That way the ruling will likely be after a more productive season that would give him a short term deal to UFA.

Less money now, but more money in the next few years.

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07-20-2012, 01:13 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Maybe they want to keep their arbitration option for his next contract. I believe a player can only take an organization to arbitration once. That way the ruling will more than likely be after a more productive season that would give him a short term deal to UFA.

Less money now, but more money in the next few years.
I thought a player could do it unlimited in the new cba, but a team only once?

Honestly if this really meant the end of Gagner wouldn't they have just went to arbitration?

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07-20-2012, 01:13 PM
  #143
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I think because hes loyal and willing to play on another one year performance contract to prove himself as he has stated in the past. These aren't the type of players you come across everyday. Dedicated to his own growth and committed to the orgs. as well.

I think this contract tells him to perform before he gets rewarded. I agree with how Tambellini structures his players contracts in the sense that they have to prove themselves on a short term basis. Polar opposite to Lowe or someone like Sutter who handcuff themselves. There has to be credit due here.

It's to the teams benefit with the new restructuring of the CBA to likely be in favour of management or the owners. Aside from the retirement contracts.

Contracts need to be performance based and teams need to quit rewarding players on past performance for the rest of the career. That's another animal in itself though.

All that said, based on the contract it looks like Tambo was low balling the whole time. If anything else there will be some other underlying implications such as a difference in term and what arose it and of course the fact that the Oilers aren't convinced he's a fit here yet. I personally think the glass is half full and when he performs this year he better get rewarded.
If Tambolinni is indeed doing this its a mistake. A mistake of Horcoff proportions.

This org never learns.

This team decides to devalue, or overvaluate players on the basis of one season. Which results in more contractual distortion than anything. Also in the exodus of players like Stoll, Torres both of which we could actually use.

"What have you done for me lately".

Great management building block to team loyalty and identity.

When this org finds a dedicated player they either give him the kings ransom or kick him in the balls. This occurring seemingly on a whim.

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07-20-2012, 01:14 PM
  #144
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So we reward a committed 5 year player here with a great attitude with this treatment. In full view of everybody. The oil somehow expect that even though they lowballed this player in front of the whole league and made him go to 12th hour arbitration that they can recieve ample return in trade a year later.

sheer brilliance.

The Oilers essentially stated to all this player is not core, this player is not value here.

THIS is how they set the bed for eventual (and I would say inevitable) trade?

Idiots at work.
Its funny how you bash the oilers for overpaying dubnyk but then bash them for underpaying gagner. Seems you cant make up your mind. And I would like to point out that its just your opinion he is going to be traded (although you like to spout it as fact). The fact is this is the best option for both parties. It leaves every option open for both the team and the player. Also check out his interview. Doesn't look like an unhappy player.

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07-20-2012, 01:16 PM
  #145
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Maybe they want to keep their arbitration option for his next contract. I believe a player can only take an organization to arbitration once. That way the ruling will likely be after a more productive season that would give him a short term deal to UFA.

Less money now, but more money in the next few years.
Thats a good answer, thanks.

I wasn't sure that the arbitration option wasn't already realized in just filing arbitration.

I'm not a CBA type. My eyes roll inside my head when I try to read legal agreements.

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07-20-2012, 01:17 PM
  #146
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I think thats fair comment and I'm engaging in a lot of speculation but I don't see it turning out much different.

The Oilers have a way of tipping their hat.

They hand Dubnyk a multi year 3.5M contract apparently as a first offer, which it took the Dubnyk camp seconds to agree to. Devyn probably wet himself like he won the lottery. This all occurring on the basis of what Dubnyk might be rather than what he's done at this level.

Next, they string Gagner out like this and all the way into the arbitration hearing room before finally settling for less with a proven Gagner, than an unproven Dubnyk. If this isn't a slap in the face and we don't value you at all moment, then I don't know what is.

So you're saying the same club that devalued Gagner and put him through this entire process would do an about face and would suddenly value him and pay him 5M?

Maybe, but I doubt it.

I think Gagner in this year will exceed that which this org would be willing to pay for his services.
I would be ticked if I was Gagner. They give a blank cheque to Dubs. Human nature. Dubs does not warrant that contract.

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07-20-2012, 01:17 PM
  #147
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Dubnyk also gave up UFA years no?
Sam didn't.
That's worth something.

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07-20-2012, 01:18 PM
  #148
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Its funny how you bash the oilers for overpaying dubnyk but then bash them for underpaying gagner. Seems you cant make up your mind. And I would like to point out that its just your opinion he is going to be traded (although you like to spout it as fact). The fact is this is the best option for both parties. It leaves every option open for both the team and the player. Also check out his interview. Doesn't look like an unhappy player.
My comments are predictable here. I value Gagners worth as a player. I see very limited value in Dubnyk. As per usual the Oilers see things differently than I do. Although their record in areas of disagreement haven't worked out so well for them.

As per usual the Oilers put value in the wrong player. hardly surprising.

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07-20-2012, 01:19 PM
  #149
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Teams can also ask for salary arbitration. But a player can be taken to arbitration only once in his career, and can never receive less than 85 per-cent of his previous year's salary. There are no such restrictions on the number of times a player can ask for arbitration, or the size of the salary awarded.

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/nhl...rbitration.htm

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07-20-2012, 01:19 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
So we reward a committed 5 year player here with a great attitude with this treatment. In full view of everybody. The oil somehow expect that even though they lowballed this player in front of the whole league and made him go to 12th hour arbitration that they can recieve ample return in trade a year later.
Gagner's has a very good attitude, from all reports. How is that relevant to a contract, though? Are the Oilers supposed to say, "well, he shows up to work with a smile on his face so we'll ignore his deficiencies as a player and hand him a deal like TJ Oshie just got."

WRT to the bolded, your description conjures an image of every player in the NHL in a high school gym. Poor, innocent Sam Gagner is crying in the middle while the others form a circle around him. In his tender hands is the lowball contract offer from Steve Tambellini and his clique of stuck-up assistants. They are all laughing at the insulted, lowballed Sam Gagner near one of the exits.

Seriously, "lowballed in front of the whole league" ? It was a contract negotiation. And the final offer was one that Gagner himself evidently judged to be acceptable and here you are raising awareness of an unforgivable insult.

What do you find offensive about a last-minute contract settlement?

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The Oilers essentially stated to all this player is not core, this player is not value here.

THIS is how they set the bed for eventual (and I would say inevitable) trade?

Idiots at work.
You're assuming that he'll soon be traded, and I agree. I hope you're right, actually.

Well, yeah. Gagner isn't a core player here. A complementary piece, otherwise he would have gotten a 6-7 year extension like (hopefully) Hall and Eberle will get in a few months. He doesn't deserve anything like that yet and I don't expect that he ever will.

On the flip side, giving him a two year deal would have taken him to unrestricted free agency, and that would have lowered his trade value to other teams, especially because of the ridiculous contracts being thrown around to UFAs these days. So if you're concerned about trade value, then this is a good deal. He can show us and the rest of the league what he's got. Going to arbitration happens all the time and I'm not seeing why GMs would balk at acquiring because of this. I mean, he didn't actually even go to the hearing.

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