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Oilers re-sign Sam Gagner (1yr/$3.2M)

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Old
07-20-2012, 02:19 PM
  #151
joestevens29
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Originally Posted by Tw0Shoes View Post
Dubnyk also gave up UFA years no?
Sam didn't.
That's worth something.
Given what the NHL wants to do these comments may or may not be true.

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07-20-2012, 02:20 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Aequitas View Post
Its funny how you bash the oilers for overpaying dubnyk but then bash them for underpaying gagner. Seems you cant make up your mind. And I would like to point out that its just your opinion he is going to be traded (although you like to spout it as fact). The fact is this is the best option for both parties. It leaves every option open for both the team and the player. Also check out his interview. Doesn't look like an unhappy player.
I don't mind the deal, but of course he's not unhappy.

He just signed a contract that will pay him three point two million dollars next year to play with the likes of Hall, Yakupov, Eberle, etc.

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07-20-2012, 02:20 PM
  #153
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If Gagner wants the big bucks he has to show that he deserves them, to date he has not. If he's here all season long and he can't flirt with 55-60 points then he is what he is a 40-49 point guy that doesn't excel at any part of the game besides point production.

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07-20-2012, 02:20 PM
  #154
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Good deal. Reasonable contract, but not insulting. Gives both sides one final year to be sure they are a good fit but lets Sam potentially be a part of the team long term with a really great contract and career ahead of him.

Looks great for both sides and I'm glad to see it over before arbitration.

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07-20-2012, 02:21 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Funny how Dubnyk didn't need to convince the team. At all.

Gagner did everything asked of him here for 5yrs under terrible playing conditions and never complained.

Dubnyk plays a limited set of games and he wins the lottery.

Apparent unsolved mystery: Put Gagner with players that are good and going and points materialize. Bury him in the lineup and production gets stifled.
Unless I am mistaken Dub gave up a year of ufa status on his deal. That makes a big difference. Also he is the starting goalie which is much harder to replace than one of the forwards. Part of his deal was based on the fact that the Oil did not have many other choices which is unfortunate.

Second Sam has never even hit 50 points in a season and he has not exactly been played on the fourth line. For a guy getting less than 50 points a year that brings nothing else to the table he should be pretty happy with 3.2 mil. Dont get me wrong I like Sam and think he has potential to improve but at this point in his career a one year deal at 3.2 is pretty fair.

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07-20-2012, 02:22 PM
  #156
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Dubnyk has been a patient trooper throughout his career and if he proves to be an average NHL starter then good for him getting rewarded. Unlike Gagner who has 5 years of NHL pay under his belt, Dubnyk has not and has spent time in the ECHL, as a back-up in the AHL, starter in the AHL, and back-up in the NHL.

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Old
07-20-2012, 02:23 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by The Bored Man View Post
Gagner's has a very good attitude, from all reports. How is that relevant to a contract, though? Are the Oilers supposed to say, "well, he shows up to work with a smile on his face so we'll ignore his deficiencies as a player and hand him a deal like TJ Oshie just got."

WRT to the bolded, your description conjures an image of every player in the NHL in a high school gym. Poor, innocent Sam Gagner is crying in the middle while the others form a circle around him. In his tender hands is the lowball contract offer from Steve Tambellini and his clique of stuck-up assistants. They are all laughing at the insulted, lowballed Sam Gagner near one of the exits.

Seriously, "lowballed in front of the whole league" ? It was a contract negotiation. One that Gagner himself evidently judged to be acceptable and here you are raising awareness of an unforgivable insult.

What do you find offensive about a last-minute contract settlement?



You're assuming that he'll soon be traded, and I agree. I hope you're right, actually.

Well, yeah. Gagner isn't a core player here. A complementary piece, otherwise he would have gotten a 6-7 year extension like (hopefully) Hall and Eberle will get in a few months. He doesn't deserve anything like that yet.

On the flip side, giving him a two year deal would have taken him to unrestricted free agency, and that would have lowered his trade value to other teams, especially because of the ridiculous contracts being thrown around. So if you're concerned about trade value, then this is a good deal. He can show us what he's got. Going to arbitration happens all the time and I'm not seeing why GMs would balk at acquiring because of this. I mean, he didn't actually even go to the hearing.
I'm not saying balk, as in teams wouldn't be interested in acquiring Gagner due to the arbitration. I AM saying they would be interested in noting in that deliberation that the Oilers had already tipped their hat and devalued thier own player through this process. Meaning that nobody but an idiot would now offer the Oilers fair value in exchange on a player the Oilers have communicated limited interest in.

This is not how you horse trade.

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07-20-2012, 02:24 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
If Tambolinni is indeed doing this its a mistake. A mistake of Horcoff proportions.

This org never learns.

This team decides to devalue, or overvaluate players on the basis of one season. Which results in more contractual distortion than anything. Also in the exodus of players like Stoll, Torres both of which we could actually use.

"What have you done for me lately".

Great management building block to team loyalty and identity.

When this org finds a dedicated player they either give him the kings ransom or kick him in the balls. This occurring seemingly on a whim.
I think you misinterpreted that. He puts his players on performance based contracts, Lowed didn't. Gagner will be rewarded with loyalty and consistency. He's been loyal but yet to achieve his potential. The idea of these types of contracts are to make players feel motivated with a fire under their ass, not a warm toasty La-Z-boy to sit back on like Horcoff was given. This is the polar opposite of what Lowe did and the idea to which Tambellni has done.

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07-20-2012, 02:26 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
I think...if & when Gagners' time as an Oiler ends...he leaves here as part of a package deal not unlike how Brandon Sutter was used to aqcuire Jordan Staal.

Sutters' trade stock had actually "dipped" after last season...but...he became an ideal piece.

I guess my point is...just because a players' trade value isn't optimized...doesn't mean you can't still make the trade you MOST want to make.
Jordan Staal was a completely different situation. He refused an extension because he wanted to play a bigger role and with his brother Eric. The whole world knew this so Carolina had the leverage in the negotiations. I don't see a scenario like that developing any time soon where the Oilers can flog Gagner for an upgrade at 2c. Every team out there wants to get bigger more skilled players than what they have. They wont be trading them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Funny how Dubnyk didn't need to convince the team. At all.

Gagner did everything asked of him here for 5yrs under terrible playing conditions and never complained.

Dubnyk plays a limited set of games and he wins the lottery.

Apparent unsolved mystery: Put Gagner with players that are good and going and points materialize. Bury him in the lineup and production gets stifled.
You cant deny that Dubnyk has made improvements and taken on more responsibility.
Dubnyk had the 20th best SV% in the league for goalies playing 41 games or more. Considering that the Oilers have the consensus "worst defense in the league".

Dubnyk won the lottery? He's been screwed over a lot more than Gagner!
His first pro season the Oilers didnt even have an AHL team to properly develop him(write off). Over the past two seasons he's played half the Oilers games and still finished with a respectable .915sv% on the worst team in the league. He also went 32-33-11 over that span.

I would like to see Gagner get an opportunity to stay on the second line for a full season with quality wingers in a winning environment. He just hasn't made any significant improvement over the past 5 seasons. I still believe he can though in the right situation

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07-20-2012, 02:28 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I'm not saying balk, as in teams wouldn't be interested in acquiring Gagner due to the arbitration. I AM saying they would be interested in noting in that deliberation that the Oilers had already tipped their hat and devalued thier own player through this process. Meaning that nobody but an idiot would now offer the Oilers fair value in exchange on a player the Oilers have communicated limited interest in.

This is not how you horse trade.
Right, but the alternatives are worse. The two year deal takes him to UFA, which wrecks his trade value. The long-term deal is one that he doesn't deserve. You gotta play the hand you're dealt. In any case I think that you're over-estimating how much this negotiation affects the mindset of potential trade partners.

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07-20-2012, 02:30 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Dubnyk has been a patient trooper throughout his career and if he proves to be an average NHL starter then good for him getting rewarded. Unlike Gagner who has 5 years of NHL pay under his belt, Dubnyk has not and has spent time in the ECHL, as a back-up in the AHL, starter in the AHL, and back-up in the NHL.
Translation:

Drastically overpay a career AHLer in a one way overpriced longterm contract (that will prove to be another one we're all laughing or crying at in a short time)

vs undercut a proven NHL player of established value.

You make it sound like its bad that Gagner quickly established himself as an NHL player.

Patient? Dubs never did much of anything or had to do anything here then be slightly better than JDD.

He barely managed that and rarely warranted call up. More than anything he was force fed to the show to see if he could at least look the part. I'm searching the family tree to see who Dubs is related to.

Uncle Katz?

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07-20-2012, 02:32 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I'm not saying balk, as in teams wouldn't be interested in acquiring Gagner due to the arbitration. I AM saying they would be interested in noting in that deliberation that the Oilers had already tipped their hat and devalued thier own player through this process. Meaning that nobody but an idiot would now offer the Oilers fair value in exchange on a player the Oilers have communicated limited interest in.

This is not how you horse trade.
Right.....because the Oilers are the only team in the league that let a player file for arbitration. Its a process thats there for a reason, and more than just "we think you suck, so let the arbitrator decide what your worthless ass is worth"

I doubt Gagner wanted to sign for any longer because he believes he can be a better player than he has shown and wants to prove that.

This is clearly a good deal(**** even Leafs and Flames fans agree on this) for both sides.

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07-20-2012, 02:33 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Jordan Staal was a completely different situation. He refused an extension because he wanted to play a bigger role and with his brother Eric. The whole world knew this so Carolina had the leverage in the negotiations. I don't see a scenario like that developing any time soon where the Oilers can flog Gagner for an upgrade at 2c. Every team out there wants to get bigger more skilled players than what they have. They wont be trading them.

You cant deny that Dubnyk has made improvements and taken on more responsibility.
Dubnyk had the 20th best SV% in the league for goalies playing 41 games or more.
Considering that the Oilers have the consensus "worst defense in the league".

Dubnyk won the lottery? He's been screwed over a lot more than Gagner!
His first pro season the Oilers didnt even have an AHL team to properly develop him(write off). Over the past two seasons he's played half the Oilers games and still finished with a respectable .915sv% on the worst team in the league. He also went 32-33-11 over that span.

I would like to see Gagner get an opportunity to stay on the second line for a full season with quality wingers in a winning environment. He just hasn't made any significant improvement over the past 5 seasons. I still believe he can though in the right situation
Playing selected games against mostly the easier opposition and mostly in the Western Confidence.

If Dubs is even playing in the Eastern conference his save % and GAA looks appreciably worse.

Most of the goalies that faired well this year were WC. One could argue better working conditions here in WC for goalies..

ps If you're going to quote a players record don't engage in NHL's current version of fiction. Its more accurate to include all wins and losses. Otherwise its a distorted view.

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07-20-2012, 02:34 PM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I'm not saying balk, as in teams wouldn't be interested in acquiring Gagner due to the arbitration. I AM saying they would be interested in noting in that deliberation that the Oilers had already tipped their hat and devalued thier own player through this process. Meaning that nobody but an idiot would now offer the Oilers fair value in exchange on a player the Oilers have communicated limited interest in.

This is not how you horse trade.
It's a performance contract buddy. Signing him long term would what, increase his value when hes getting overpaid and glued to whoever acquires him. Those assets are the hardest to move. He performs well this year and improves, they look longer term in the new CBA and he becomes an attractive asset, that my friend is efficient horse trading. His value in the market was not high before this trade and if he is anything of the ilk we think he is he will be more valuable next season and still the oilers property.

The RFA status is a real catch here. He is in charge of his own value now. It's accountability on the other hand. You feel me?


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07-20-2012, 02:34 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Translation:

Drastically overpay a career AHLer in a one way overpriced longterm contract (that will prove to be another one we're all laughing or crying at in a short time)

vs undercut a proven NHL player of established value.

You make it sound like its bad that Gagner quickly established himself as an NHL player.

Patient? Dubs never did much of anything or had to do anything here then be slightly better than JDD.

He barely managed that and rarely warranted call up. More than anything he was force fed to the show to see if he could at least look the part. I'm searching the family tree to see who Dubs is related to.

Uncle Katz?
Translation:

You have a blind hatred for Oilers management


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07-20-2012, 02:36 PM
  #166
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Guys, clearly Tambi should've signed him for 5 years with a NMC. That's how great management does things.

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07-20-2012, 02:37 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Dustin Penner ring a bell?

The bolded is interesting btw. Because I have no idea how you think that much different will materialize with this management.
Actually the Penner deal strengthens my argument. They were able to get a pretty solid deal for Penner right before he proceeded to struggle the next 1+ seasons outside of a solid playoff run.

I understand your concern of management not maximizing the value of their trade assets. I suppose you can point to the Souray situation as minimizing the value of an asset but that was a special situation because he went public with his tirade thus destroying his trade value.

I just don't see this deal as a problem. Gagner hasn't done enough to earn a lucrative long term deal especially on a team that has better verions of him littered all over the top 6 so he gets a year to prove his worth whether it be as an Oiler long term or as a valuable trade asset.

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07-20-2012, 02:38 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
Translation:

You have a blind hatred for Oilers management

Guilty as charged. With emphasis.

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07-20-2012, 02:39 PM
  #169
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As to the contract I'm confused by it all round.

A one year deal basically confirms Gagner at this point isn't in the plans here.

Barring injury he'll smash his production records, will up his contract cost for next year, and will likely be gone. I don't see how this plays out much differently.

But why would the Gagner camp agree to this when the arbitration award would likely be North of this?
Maybe the Oil hope he does well and can trade him for a bigger guy? Playing with the guys we have now, anyone's point totals will go up and make them look better.

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07-20-2012, 02:40 PM
  #170
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I don't have a problem with this 1 year deal. Hopefully he earns a longer contract next season.

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07-20-2012, 02:40 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Grod View Post
It's a performance contract buddy. Signing him long term would what, increase his value when hes getting overpaid and glued to whoever acquires him. Those assets are the hardest to move. He performs well this year and improves, they look longer term in the new CBA and he becomes an attractive asset, that my friend is efficient horse trading. His value in the market was not high before this trade and if he is anything of the ilk we think he is he will be more valuable next season and still the a oilers property.
We'll see, right now I'm reacting, which is seldom a clear view. I should probably get out of the thread.

Could be worse. At least he's got a chance to play here next season and the Oil didn't trade his ass already.

I just want to see what he can do with this lineup for one healthy year.

With my luck its a lockout year...

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07-20-2012, 02:41 PM
  #172
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Replacement vs. The World, Part XVII.

Or at least, that's what it seems like.

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07-20-2012, 02:44 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Guys, clearly Tambi should've signed him for 5 years with a NMC. That's how great management does things.
Jeve Feasterllini.

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07-20-2012, 02:45 PM
  #174
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Replacement vs. The World, Part XVII.

Or at least, that's what it seems like.
I must sound like Gagner or Torres agent sometimes.

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07-20-2012, 02:50 PM
  #175
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The Oilers did maximize Sam's trade value with this contract. It's a 'show me' deal - not just to the Oil, but to the league. Gagner's been knocking on the door for a few years now, we're all waiting for his breakout season.

If he does break out and puts out 60ish points thats great for both parties. It will give the Oilers some trade value in 89, and it will give 89 leverage for a better contract to take him into UFA.
Conversely, if the Oilers get interest and are able to flip him, he will have 1 year remaining until UFA which is attractive to potential buyers.

Even if Sam puts up similar #'s to his previous years, another team may be willing to take a flyer on him with the presumption that a change of scenery could be what he needs.

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