The Eastern conference features higher scoring games. Simple as that. Which has a huge bearing on goalie stat evaluation. For goalies right now its better to be playing in the WC as far as stats are concerned. Like for instance the 20th best stat you quoted.
So if Gagner played in the east he would have a maybe a .65% ppg average and be worth a multi-year deal instead of being so disrespected by the Oilers that he had to file for arbitration?
After 5 years I think we can all see a pattern of what is to come from Gagner.In saying that I hope he proves a lot of people wrong this season, and we either re-sign him to a multi-year deal or flip him for an asset(s) if he proves too difficult to re-sign.
Of course I haven't been thrilled with some of the coaching/management decisions regarding his ice time and development. It looks like Krueger will be letting their creativity flow on the oppositions end this year, and his game in the Oilers end improved last year. Its do or die
Why? Gagner was much better than Horcoff in the 2nd line role last season. That's why Horcoff was finally forced down into the bottom 6(although he still got every chance to do nothing with the 3min of 1st unit PP time he got per game)
Something that I can see though is Horcoff at least brings effort every game.When you watch Gagner he only shows up for 40-50% percent of the season every year.
Gagner is bar none the most inconsistent player on the team.
Something that I can see though is Horcoff at least brings effort every game.When you watch Gagner he only shows up for 40-50% percent of the season every year.
Gagner is bar none the most inconsistent player on the team.
You've got to be kidding me. I agree that Gagner is inconsistent with his production but not with his effort. The Oilers have been losers going back to before Gagner even got here and he still brings it every night and says all the right things. I've never once questioned whether or not he still cares. There are very few Oilers I can say that about(the captain included) and a lot of them haven't been dealing with the losing ways as long. The timing of his fight against Beauchemin says almost all you need to know about Gagner's effort.
Something that I can see though is Horcoff at least brings effort every game.When you watch Gagner he only shows up for 40-50% percent of the season every year.
Gagner is bar none the most inconsistent player on the team.
Well there were some games in the middle of the season where I questioned Horcoff's commitment. And even if you are right, Horcoff's 100% was still worse than what Gagner brought.
Many young skilled players struggle with inconsistency. The good ones get over it and become 1st line players. The average ones add dimensions to their game and fill 2nd line roles. The poor ones struggle to keep a spot in an NHL lineup. Gagner, right now, fits into the middle group, and still has the potential to be in the 1st group. Why not give him another chance as 2nd C and see what he can do?
Horcoff is a much worse idea, imo. He breaks up most of the offensive plays he's a part of with his inability to make or receive a pass. So why would you prefer the idea of him playing with Hemsky and Yakupov?
Well there were some games in the middle of the season where I questioned Horcoff's commitment. And even if you are right, Horcoff's 100% was still worse than what Gagner brought.
Many young skilled players struggle with inconsistency. The good ones get over it and become 1st line players. The average ones add dimensions to their game and fill 2nd line roles. The poor ones struggle to keep a spot in an NHL lineup. Gagner, right now, fits into the middle group, and still has the potential to be in the 1st group. Why not give him another chance as 2nd C and see what he can do?
Horcoff is a much worse idea, imo. He breaks up most of the offensive plays he's a part of with his inability to make or receive a pass. So why would you prefer the idea of him playing with Hemsky and Yakupov?
My problem with this is we have been waiting on Sam Gagner to show his stuff for far too long.
This next season will be his 6th season were we will be waiting to see if he can finally hit more than 40-49 points.
You've got to be kidding me. I agree that Gagner is inconsistent with his production but not with his effort. The Oilers have been losers going back to before Gagner even got here and he still brings it every night and says all the right things. I've never once questioned whether or not he still cares. There are very few Oilers I can say that about(the captain included) and a lot of them haven't been dealing with the losing ways as long. The timing of his fight against Beauchemin says almost all you need to know about Gagner's effort.
So his effort isn't the problem and instead his talent level isn't good enough.
My problem with this is we have been waiting on Sam Gagner to show his stuff for far too long.
This next season will be his 6th season were we will be waiting to see if he can finally hit more than 40-49 points.
We've been waiting for Hemsky to have a healthy and productive season a hell of a lot longer. We can show at least the same amount of patience for Gagner. This will be his deciding season. New coach and talented wingers
My problem with this is we have been waiting on Sam Gagner to show his stuff for far too long.
This next season will be his 6th season were we will be waiting to see if he can finally hit more than 40-49 points.
How old were the Sedins when they broke out for more than 50p? Briere was 24. St. Louis was 27. Not all players follow the same timeline. It's too early to write Gagner's career in the books.
And the fact is that we have no better options right now for a 2nd C than Gagner. Putting Horcoff there, or trying to get Hall, Eberle or Paajarvi used to playing a position they haven't played in years, if ever, isn't a viable solution for next season, imo.
How old were the Sedins when they broke out for more than 50p? Briere was 24. St. Louis was 27. Not all players follow the same timeline. It's too early to write Gagner's career in the books.
And the fact is that we have no better options right now for a 2nd C than Gagner. Putting Horcoff there, or trying to get Hall, Eberle or Paajarvi used to playing a position they haven't played in years, if ever, isn't a viable solution for next season, imo.
Daniel Sedin was 22 when he broke out and got more than 50 points.
Also Briere was 23 when he got more than 50 points.
So his effort isn't the problem and instead his talent level isn't good enough.
That's right. Effort isn't the problem. Which evidently isn't a problem for you based on the statement you just made about Horcoff and his effort level.
It should be noted that Gagner had a 0.63 points per game average this season. That put him 40th among centers that played 45+ games. He also had the 35th most points at even strength amongst centers while averaging. He even lead the team in +/- this year. I'm not saying he's great defensively but he's not the liability that he once was. Not every 2nd line center can be Ryan Kesler(who actually had a 0.64 PPG average last season). If people want a 25 goal/65 point 2nd line center...they're going to be waiting a long time.
Would've prefered a deal similar to Perron's but 1 year is good. I'm encouraged by Gagner's progress this past season. He's still inconsistent but at least the bar went up in terms of his overall play. Now if only he could figure out how not to fall down every third shift. I swear Smid, Whitney or Jones are putting sock tape on his skates and having a good laugh any time Gagner falls on his butt.
I am reading a couple of things from this signing...that Gagner is not part of the teams long range plans and that the team is hoping he drives his value up with this deal.
This deal is a miscalculation by team management IMO.
I am reading a couple of things from this signing...that Gagner is not part of the teams long range plans and that the team is hoping he drives his value up with this deal. This deal is a miscalculation by team management IMO.
How so? Meaning they should've signed him to a longer term? Or that he won't drive up his value?
Daniel Sedin was 22 when he broke out and got more than 50 points.
Also Briere was 23 when he got more than 50 points.
Actually Sedin was 23 (born sep 1980, first season above 50 was 2003-04) and Briere was 24 (born oct 1977, first season above 50 was 2001-02). Gagner is going to be 23 this year, so if he were to "break out" past 50 points, it would be fairly par
Actually Sedin was 23 (born sep 1980, first season above 50 was 2003-04) and Briere was 24 (born oct 1977, first season above 50 was 2001-02). Gagner is going to be 23 this year, so if he were to "break out" past 50 points, it would be fairly par
My bad,I did't look into it and I just glanced at these sites.
The Oilers did maximize Sam's trade value with this contract. It's a 'show me' deal - not just to the Oil, but to the league. Gagner's been knocking on the door for a few years now, we're all waiting for his breakout season.
If he does break out and puts out 60ish points thats great for both parties. It will give the Oilers some trade value in 89, and it will give 89 leverage for a better contract to take him into UFA.
Conversely, if the Oilers get interest and are able to flip him, he will have 1 year remaining until UFA which is attractive to potential buyers.
Even if Sam puts up similar #'s to his previous years, another team may be willing to take a flyer on him with the presumption that a change of scenery could be what he needs.
Bingo!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supermullet
Hundreds of others did not break out. Many even regressed.
Yup, meanwhile Gagner is guaranteed to go through the roof and couldn't possibly run in place or even get worse.
__________________ Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
The most underrated player on this team to me is RNH (slightly) this guy always gets the predictions of loads of assists but only a marginal 25 goals, maybe not now but i see him cracking 30
The most underrated player on this team however is Gagner not in stats wise but I have always seen him as an Alyn MCcauley type centerman I still think he can become better defensively and on a personal level he has that Jarret Stoll/Jason Smith type of care for this team.
Overrated is without a doubt Dubnyk i wouldn't even pencil him as an NHL goalie there is a goalie out there very similar in stature Ben Bishop you could put Dubnyk on waivers and 30 teams would not claim him. I said the same thing about Olivier Roy.
I could be a goalie scout cause I can just see great ones coming along (spotted Cam Ward, Carey Price, believe Malcom Subban, will be a great, and many others) Bunz will be great which i predicted a while back
The most underrated player on this team to me is RNH (slightly) this guy always gets the predictions of loads of assists but only a marginal 25 goals, maybe not now but i see him cracking 30
The most underrated player on this team however is Gagner not in stats wise but I have always seen him as an Alyn MCcauley type centerman I still think he can become better defensively and on a personal level he has that Jarret Stoll/Jason Smith type of care for this team.
Overrated is without a doubt Dubnyk i wouldn't even pencil him as an NHL goalie there is a goalie out there very similar in stature Ben Bishop you could put Dubnyk on waivers and 30 teams would not claim him. I said the same thing about Olivier Roy.
I could be a goalie scout cause I can just see great ones coming along (spotted Cam Ward, Carey Price, believe Malcom Subban, will be a great, and many others) Bunz will be great which i predicted a while back
So let me get this straight, Ben Bishop, a guy who has never been as good as Dubnyk, is better, and no other teams would take Dubnyk for free.
And you saw two of the best goalies in the world coming so you can be a scout? Great, I knew Nugent-Hopkins would be good, the Oil should give me a job too. Get over yourself.
I also don't think you understand what overrated means. Half of HF doesn't like Dubnyk. Taking that into consideration, how is he overrated?
I am reading a couple of things from this signing...that Gagner is not part of the teams long range plans and that the team is hoping he drives his value up with this deal.
This deal is a miscalculation by team management IMO.
OR, it could have been Gagner going to the team and saying that he wants a short deal so he can break out, or a huge payday over a longer contract. This is a good compromise for both sides.
its a good deal, no big commitment. I think this is a lets see what you are made of contract, if he has the stuff it should come out now, this will be his 5th year on the team. if someone doesn't work out after 5 yrs its time to part ways.
The most underrated player on this team to me is RNH (slightly) this guy always gets the predictions of loads of assists but only a marginal 25 goals, maybe not now but i see him cracking 30
The most underrated player on this team however is Gagner not in stats wise but I have always seen him as an Alyn MCcauley type centerman I still think he can become better defensively and on a personal level he has that Jarret Stoll/Jason Smith type of care for this team.
Overrated is without a doubt Dubnyk i wouldn't even pencil him as an NHL goalie there is a goalie out there very similar in stature Ben Bishop you could put Dubnyk on waivers and 30 teams would not claim him. I said the same thing about Olivier Roy.
I could be a goalie scout cause I can just see great ones coming along (spotted Cam Ward, Carey Price, believe Malcom Subban, will be a great, and many others) Bunz will be great which i predicted a while back
Egads.....
Your comparing Gagner to McCauley and that's a good thing?
its a good deal, no big commitment. I think this is a lets see what you are made of contract, if he has the stuff it should come out now, this will be his 5th year on the team. if someone doesn't work out after 5 yrs its time to part ways.
